Dangerous levels of protein recommended on myfitnesspal?
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pippakeech2389 wrote: »Thanks for the video fuzzylop and also interesting science angel7472. It is true that doctors in UK are not trained in the minutiae of nutrition - I should know as I am one. I am trained in how to interpret science papers though so shall spend some time checking these sources out. It seems that a higher protein intake will help me get more toned (I dare not say musclier in view of the fights going on oop there) but no-one has mentioned it making you fuller. The thing that I find challenging is knowing what the percentages really mean - 50% carbs - why? Who says? And what foods are these? It's fun, but quite specialised. I would be surprised if a British gastroenterologist knew much about it either because this ain't medicine, this is nutrition baby!!! Which I am considering doing a masters in from September. So give us a break with the doctor slamming - believe me in the UK we are becoming a rare and lesser spotted breed and yes, Christ knows why I expect sympathy from this bunch of hyenas.
Interestingly enough, one of my best friends is a pediatric cardiologist training at one of the top med schools in the US (University of Pennsylvania). And every time i ask about nutrition, she laughs and says i have people for it. Hell, she believes in some basic misconceptions because it not her specialty. And just like I wouldn't go to a GI doctor for heart surgery, i wouldnt go to a doctor for nutrition advice. Its a different specialty.13 -
pippakeech2389 wrote: »It seems that a higher protein intake will help me get more toned (I dare not say musclier in view of the fights going on oop there) but no-one has mentioned it making you fuller.
I thought some of us did mention satiety, which is a reason some like to consume more than the minimum, sure. (Not everyone finds protein filling, but many of us do.)
Higher protein helps maintain muscle when you are eating at a deficit or gain muscle when eating a maintenance or above -- although the latter requires strength building exercise of some sort, and the former is certainly helped by it. So musclier works for me. I think the argument (not really relevant) is just that it's really hard for a woman to gain muscle, and generally gaining muscle requires working the particular muscle at least 3x per week with some kind of progressive strength training activity (need not be formal weights program, of course), and it takes time. In the dieting world it's REALLY common for people to claim they are building muscle insanely quickly while eating at a significant deficit, and that's generally not going to happen. Various factors can make muscle gain while dieting more likely: a less extreme deficit, more weight to lose, a newby to strength or restarting after time off, being a young male. The biggest reason for protein + strength training for a dieter IMO is not that any significant muscle gain is likely, but because without it muscle LOSS is likely and besides even without muscle gain you can get stronger and that's cool.The thing that I find challenging is knowing what the percentages really mean - 50% carbs - why?
MFP has to have some defaults, so picked one's kind of in the middle of the usually recommended ranges that will tend to work at all calorie levels, although as I tried to explain above the calorie level matters. Getting enough protein and fat (for many) at low calories might make a lower carb percentage work better (someone at 1200 might find 33-33-33 works well), but someone with no particular reason to aim for high fat or protein and with a very high calorie level might be someone for whom 80% carbs work (like a Kenyan marathoner). The DRI has an explanation of where their recommended ranges come from, but my personal view is that it's largely personal choice beyond their being some benefits to getting around .65-.85 g per healthy goal weight in lbs if someone is losing weight and cares about maintaining muscle (and it might help with satiety too). As I said, I still aim for that range when not dieting (since I'm active and would like to build muscle), but then I think the minimum (1 g/kg) is probably okay if one is maintaining, not trying to build muscle, and not very active.So give us a break with the doctor slamming - believe me in the UK we are becoming a rare and lesser spotted breed and yes, Christ knows why I expect sympathy from this bunch of hyenas.
I think you are taking this way too personally. Saying doctors aren't generally experts on nutrition is not a slam. I'd expect any good doctor to refer a patient who needs significant nutrition counseling to a licensed dietitian.
(And as a lawyer, my profession gets slammed more than its share and I think doctors have it pretty darn good in the public eye.)11 -
Personally, I've found around 100g+ protein helps keep me feeling full longer. (For the record, I'm 5'5" and 157lbs).
And while I have no scientific proof for it, and it just might be all in my head, I find I suffer doms less intensely when I have higher levels of protein. Seems if I look through my diary and compare days when doms have been debilitating, it's usually a day where my protein has been 70g or less.
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lemurcat12, you are right about lawyers getting a worst press than us - I feel better now, ta. These forums always make me on the defensive and ready to fight first, think later, as they are such bear pits. It is this automatic assumption that doctors should know everything about everything to do with health, which I so wish was the case but we spend an awful lot of time fire-fighting really sick people, especially at this time of year. Also lecturing a single mum on benefits on nutrition when she doesn't have enough to send her kids to school with breakfast would not go down well. Anyway I am digressing all over the place.
It is true that young men seem to build muscle in the blink of an eye - my 19 year old son is built like a brick *kitten* house anyway but if he does a couple of sessions on weights he has enormous muscles sprouting left right and centre. On the other hand at 54 I would faint with joy if I could find my triceps, let alone see them.
OK anyway that makes things clearer actually, thanks. I do think a higher protein % works for me satiety wise, or maybe it is because it kind of automatically sends the carbs down so less hypos from all that sugar whistling around in my blood? OK, confession here - a few peeps have used this and I get it means horribly achy muscles after doing an unaccustomed or excessive work out but what does DOMS stand for?7 -
Brick kitten house!!!! Good grief.3
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brick sheeet house, as my french friend would say.3
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@pippakeech2389
DOMS = delayed onset muscle soreness.
Particularly hits people when they are new or returning to exercise or a particular exercise.
Varies from "oo - I can feel my workout from yesterday" to extreme difficulty when using the the brick out house and the seat suddenly feels to be an awful long way down.
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I have a question if someone can help as I find nutrition talk confusing a lot of the time. I did read through the thread but it wasn't clear to me...
I am currently on about 1200 calories, 60g Protein and I feel like when I am putting my weekly plans together I am always over on protein and need to change things around. I seem to be ok keeping my calories in check.
Am I ok to go over the protein and still see fairly consistent results? I'd like to have it at least around 80-90 but if its going to slow the weight loss dramatically I'd rather not.
At the moment I am not doing much exercise except some walking.
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MandaLuvsHockey wrote: »I have a question if someone can help as I find nutrition talk confusing a lot of the time. I did read through the thread but it wasn't clear to me...
I am currently on about 1200 calories, 60g Protein and I feel like when I am putting my weekly plans together I am always over on protein and need to change things around. I seem to be ok keeping my calories in check.
Am I ok to go over the protein and still see fairly consistent results? I'd like to have it at least around 80-90 but if its going to slow the weight loss dramatically I'd rather not.
At the moment I am not doing much exercise except some walking.
60g of protein isn't a huge amount. If anything you can easily go higher as protein tends to help most people feel full longer, which will help you.
I currently aim for a minimum of 100g but don't worry over much if I don't hit it exactly. It's calories that matter most for weight loss.0 -
MandaLuvsHockey wrote: »I have a question if someone can help as I find nutrition talk confusing a lot of the time. I did read through the thread but it wasn't clear to me...
I am currently on about 1200 calories, 60g Protein and I feel like when I am putting my weekly plans together I am always over on protein and need to change things around. I seem to be ok keeping my calories in check.
Am I ok to go over the protein and still see fairly consistent results? I'd like to have it at least around 80-90 but if its going to slow the weight loss dramatically I'd rather not.
At the moment I am not doing much exercise except some walking.
Calories are what matters for weight loss. The MFP default macros are just suggestions, they have nothing to do with weight loss. Going over any of your macros if calories are the same will not affect weight loss.
That said, some might be better or worse for other reasons. On 1200 calories, MFP's default protein amount -- because it is based on a percentage -- is low, and I personally believe that for most 60 is on the low side (when eating low cal and losing weight you'd want more protein than usual, not less), and 80-90 g is great. I did around 100 g when losing.4 -
MandaLuvsHockey wrote: »I have a question if someone can help as I find nutrition talk confusing a lot of the time. I did read through the thread but it wasn't clear to me...
I am currently on about 1200 calories, 60g Protein and I feel like when I am putting my weekly plans together I am always over on protein and need to change things around. I seem to be ok keeping my calories in check.
Am I ok to go over the protein and still see fairly consistent results? I'd like to have it at least around 80-90 but if its going to slow the weight loss dramatically I'd rather not.
At the moment I am not doing much exercise except some walking.
I wouldn't worry about going over on protein that much. I'm aware of at least two studies in-which the participants were fed a ridiculous amount of protein, I believe the one study was 4 x BW and the other about 5 x BW and they didn't gain weight in-relation to the control group. If I can find them again I'll post it. If anything, I would question if the 1,200 calories is the right target for you.0 -
If MFP's protein goals are dangerous, then I'd say they're more on the too low side, rather than dangerously high..11
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Sure if your have kidney disease a high protein diet can be dangerous. I eat about 1gm of protein per pound I weigh, I've been eating this way for about 8 months. I just had a CMP drawn and my kidney function is perfect.1
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Thanks for the replys. The only reason I questioned it was because when you click finish on a days entries the weight I "could be" isn't as good if I go over my protein. Knowing I can go over this makes me extremely happy
I won't go super crazy or anything but so many times I had to re-do my meal plans solely based on it. 0 -
those predictions are next to worthless because they assume you will eat the exact same thing every day for their 5 week prediction4
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I have had several kidney issues in my life: kidney stones and a kidney infection in my 20s. I have had no issues at all since raising my protein levels to about 100-120g (I'm in my 40s, petite and in 120lb range). I lift weights and need the protein and I feel much better eating this way. My blood panels all say I'm very healthy.1
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I think the source of protein makes a difference on how your body handles it, animal based protein is much harder for the body to handle than plant based sources of protein.28
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ElishaLovely wrote: »I think the source of protein makes a difference on how your body handles it, animal based protein is much harder for the body to handle than plant based sources of protein.
Vegan propaganda.10 -
dolphin2389 wrote: »lemurcat12, you are right about lawyers getting a worst press than us - I feel better now, ta. These forums always make me on the defensive and ready to fight first, think later, as they are such bear pits. It is this automatic assumption that doctors should know everything about everything to do with health, which I so wish was the case but we spend an awful lot of time fire-fighting really sick people, especially at this time of year. Also lecturing a single mum on benefits on nutrition when she doesn't have enough to send her kids to school with breakfast would not go down well. Anyway I am digressing all over the place.
It is true that young men seem to build muscle in the blink of an eye - my 19 year old son is built like a brick *kitten* house anyway but if he does a couple of sessions on weights he has enormous muscles sprouting left right and centre. On the other hand at 54 I would faint with joy if I could find my triceps, let alone see them.
OK anyway that makes things clearer actually, thanks. I do think a higher protein % works for me satiety wise, or maybe it is because it kind of automatically sends the carbs down so less hypos from all that sugar whistling around in my blood? OK, confession here - a few peeps have used this and I get it means horribly achy muscles after doing an unaccustomed or excessive work out but what does DOMS stand for?
Delayed onset muscle soreness.
As an extension on your desire to learn more about nutrition and its impacts on the body in the realm of fitness (and just generally) a good starting point would be people like Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms, Layne Norton and a lot of others I can never recall all at once.
And yeah, kitten is the expletive filter. You can edit your posts too, there should be a cog top right of your post for one hour.1 -
dolphin2389 wrote: »So I have literally just started a health kick (again!) on 1st Jan 2018 that as well as dry January includes using myfitnesspal for the first time, and have marvellously already lost 4 pounds and gained some muscle too -woohoo! I quickly ended up paying the extra few quid a month to see my macronutrient distribution (as we fitness fanatics say, ahem). But I have stumbled on a confusing situation. In this blog on Jamie Oliver's site (https://www.jamieoliver.com/news-and-features/features/perfect-homemade-protein-shake/) a nutritionist says that we should be aiming at .0.8g of protein per kilo, which in my case would be 66g a day. But my "goals" page on myfitnesspal says that for 30% protein I should eat something like 130g? That's double. I am not a mega body builder although I have started doing weights for 40 minutes twice a week on top of my usual desultory efforts on the cross trainer - I did one two days ago, and am practically bed bound and in agony today. I must admit I have been struggling to hit that protein target of 130g even with efforts to eat more proteinanceous foods. Given that too high levels of protein can eventually damage the kidneys this is quite an important point. Anyone with knowledge out there who can enlighten me?
If you're using numbers recommended by MFP after correctly filling in your info, then there shouldn't be a problem. My own chart suggests 110, and I don't think anything as low as 66 would be in line with "normal".0 -
ElishaLovely wrote: »I think the source of protein makes a difference on how your body handles it, animal based protein is much harder for the body to handle than plant based sources of protein.
Many millennia of human evolution says you're wrong.
P.S. I'm vegetarian, not a shill for Big Meat. Doesn't change facts, though.11 -
MandaLuvsHockey wrote: »Thanks for the replys. The only reason I questioned it was because when you click finish on a days entries the weight I "could be" isn't as good if I go over my protein. Knowing I can go over this makes me extremely happy I won't go super crazy or anything but so many times I had to re-do my meal plans solely based on it.
The formula used in that prediction is, IMU, entirely based on calories, not macronutrients. People need more protein when losing weight. Eat that 80-90g everyday, as long as it's not driving minimum needed fats or veggies/fruit out of your eating.
Peesonally, at 5'5", I go for a 100g minimum, and usually happily exceed it (even as a vegetarian ). 4 -
I don't think it's high, I actually think it's low. But if you have medical probs ,I would talk to a doctor before beginning any regiment.1
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ElishaLovely wrote: »I think the source of protein makes a difference on how your body handles it, animal based protein is much harder for the body to handle than plant based sources of protein.
Many millennia of human evolution says you're wrong.
P.S. I'm vegetarian, not a shill for Big Meat. Doesn't change facts, though.
Yes for sure. If somebody is Vegan, that's fine eat how you're comfortable with. I will say that the research on meat being "bad" is actually bad itself in some ways. I'll never forget that some of the "studies" I had to read in school were basically done like this with the participants... Are you overweight? Yes. Do you eat meat? Yes. Conclusion: You eat meat, therefore you are overweight. That was the basis of some of these studies without looking at the participants overall lifestyle or a holistic review of their nutrition. Some of this stuff is basically just propaganda and not all that different from politics.4 -
dolphin2389 wrote: »Given that too high levels of protein can eventually damage the kidneys this is quite an important point.
Luckily this is incorrect. Eat as much protein as you'd like.
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I'd actually struggle to get less than 100g, on average. Sometimes it's a lot more, sometimes less but never under 70g on a particularly protein light day. Kidneys are fine. I didn't suddenly start eating more protein when I started using MFP either so basically a lifetime of moderate-high protein. Kidneys still fine.0
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I'm the same, I would struggle to stay under 100g too. This was one the hardest things i had to contend with when i did keto, I just couldn't keep my protein under 120g, which didn't leave enough room/calories for fat. Keeping my carbs down was a doddle compared to the protein fracas!
Today I'm at 168g, obviously i gravitate toward high protein foods
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I just feel like yelling "JAMIE OLIVER IS NOT A DOCTOR!" over and over again.
The more adult version of my initial response is to say that I would trust Jamie Oliver to give me cooking tips, but not medical information. Generally speaking, I don't think it's prudent to make health decisions based on blog posts that don't cite solid sources for their information.7
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