Is Infrequent Weight Lifting Worthless?
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JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
Push/Pull theory is largely overblown, but if you want to add 4 sets of pullups at 1/3 Max Reps, by all means do so.0 -
Probably not entirely worthless but close to it. I generally tell beginners 2x/week dividing your workouts into pushing and pulling exercise (overhead press/lat pulldown, squats/RDL's) as a very basic example. Choose multi-joint exercises as these will hit the major muscle groups and give you the best "bang for your buck" especially if gym time is limited. There is no shame in using machines if you are not comfortable with free weights, and start out light until you are more confident with the exercises. When confident/comfortable, choose challenging weights, as this is where strength improvements and likely physique will begin to occur. Although not entirely true, as a general rule of thumb, if you aren't pushing yourself you aren't going to improve, and results/improvements will stagnate.2
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stanmann571 wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
Push/Pull theory is largely overblown, but if you want to add 4 sets of pullups at 1/3 Max Reps, by all means do so.
What do you mean by largely overblown?0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
Push/Pull theory is largely overblown, but if you want to add 4 sets of pullups at 1/3 Max Reps, by all means do so.
What do you mean by largely overblown?
I mean that the broscience theory that every push should have a corresponding pull is somewhere between unmitigated kitten and mild woo.
I mean for a novice, correct deadlifts are more than enough upper body pulling, for a balanced workout.
HTH1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
Push/Pull theory is largely overblown, but if you want to add 4 sets of pullups at 1/3 Max Reps, by all means do so.
What do you mean by largely overblown?
I mean that the broscience theory that every push should have a corresponding pull is somewhere between unmitigated kitten and mild woo.
I mean for a novice, correct deadlifts are more than enough upper body pulling, for a balanced workout.
HTH
I could not disagree more.1 -
Gotcha.
Personally, as someone who is primarily focused on getting stronger for every day life, I'd much rather have some sort of row as part of my routine than overhead work. In my normal, everyday life, I do a lot more pulling, and that pulling is heavier, than anything over my head... and that was more the basis of my comment (rather than the idea that specific lifts need to be balanced with other lifts or whatever else).
Just for context/perspective.. Not sure if one is any more right than the other.1 -
I think once a week is better than no times a week but 2x would be better. I do 2 days weight lifting and 2 days cardio.0
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JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
I agree. SS and SL seem to be the two universally prescribed, one-size-fits-all workout programs, but for somebody who will only work out twice a week, they'd benefit more from a good (i.e. well designed and progressive) full body workout on those two days.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
Push/Pull theory is largely overblown, but if you want to add 4 sets of pullups at 1/3 Max Reps, by all means do so.
What do you mean by largely overblown?
I mean that the broscience theory that every push should have a corresponding pull is somewhere between unmitigated kitten and mild woo.
I mean for a novice, correct deadlifts are more than enough upper body pulling, for a balanced workout.
HTH
I could not disagree more.
I would say benching without rowing will create huge imbalances. I actually work my back more than my chest and it's really helped me overcome some posture issues I was dealing with from sitting at a desk for years.1 -
Gotcha.
Personally, as someone who is primarily focused on getting stronger for every day life, I'd much rather have some sort of row as part of my routine than overhead work. In my normal, everyday life, I do a lot more pulling, and that pulling is heavier, than anything over my head... and that was more the basis of my comment (rather than the idea that specific lifts need to be balanced with other lifts or whatever else).
Just for context/perspective.. Not sure if one is any more right than the other.
I can understand your point, but I find that overhead work has a lot of benefits, particularly for shoulder mobility and core stability development (when done standing) that are important beyond just normal improvement to daily functional requirements. I do a lot of rowing as well and find that to be extremely important for correcting posture issue.0 -
One could do strength training twice a week, but those would have to be pretty intense sessions to really see growth; you'd have to push it hard. Once to Twice a week is typically what you see done with in-season athletes that are just trying to mitigate strength loss from their off-season training gains. Also, in seniors twice a week can be used to maintain quality of life, but that's not the same as actually pursuing strength goals.
What is your primary fitness goal?1 -
I like weight lifting well enough, but there are things that I enjoy *more* (Zumba, swimming, yoga, etc). I have found a progressive resistance program I like (Starting Strength) that calls for 3 days a week. Many people on here also suggest 3-5 days of weight lifting.
Unfortunately, that's just not realistic for me (YET!). I can squeeze it in once (for sure) or twice (at most) a week. I do large compound movements (squat, DLs, bench, overhead presses), so it's not just auxiliary/isolation work.
I know that it won't HURT to lift, but is the difference between 1 or 2 times a week and 3 times a week significantly different in terms of strength building? I'm not looking for insane physique results, just to maybe start filling out some areas that were fat-filled before.
The plan is to move to working out more times a week, but I'm trying to be realistic with what I can do without burning out, which right now is about 4 times a week, so I'm having to prioritize.
Feed back would be much appreciated.
It really depends on what you're wanting to get out of it. If you're wanting to maximize strength gains, 3x per week is optimal...as a matter of general fitness I think there is plenty of benefit in lifting 1-2x per week...you're just not really going to see the gains or they will be very slow and/or you will hit plateaus sooner and they will be harder to overcome.
My wife currently lifts 1x per week and she's working with a trainer which really helps in regards to movement selections. She's not looking to squat twice her weight or put on mass or anything like that. 1x per week basically allows her to maintain an athletic physique, maintain her strength levels, and is good cross training for her running and is beneficial from a general fitness standpoint. She'd rather spend time out on the road running than in the gym lifting.
I lift 2x per week...Much like my wife, it's more about maintaining what I have than gainz. Having done 3x per week as well as 4 day splits, I've found my current routine easier on my joints. It also allows me more time on my bike which is where my passion really lies...not to mention, it's just way easier in regards to my schedule and time management and kids and sports and homework, etc...
My 2x per week is as follows:
A.
- Compound Lower Body (squat or deadlift variations)
- Posterior Chain Strength (RDL, pull-through, or hip thurst)
- Horizontal Pulling (row variations)
- Split-Stance (split squats, lunges, bulgarian split squats)
- Horizontal Press (bench press variations)
- Anti-extension core
B.
- Compound Lower Body (opposite of day 1 pattern)
- Accessory Posterior Chain (single leg RDL, Swiss ball leg curls, glue-ham raise, single leg hip thrust)
- Vertical Pulling (chin-ups, lat pulls)
- Single Leg (step-ups, chops/lifts, single leg squats)
- Vertical Press (OH pressing variations
- Anti-Lateral Flexion Core
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JerSchmare wrote: »I wouldn’t do SS twice a week. I would do a full body workout. That would be better for you. There are plenty out there if you google it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Isn't SS basically a full body work out? It's an A/B split with A: DL, Bench, Squat; B: DL, OH Press, Squat.
Mostly, but not exactly. Bench and OHP are similar in some ways, but they don't work the same muscle groups. So doing SS 2x week will have you squatting 2x, DLing 2x, benching 1x, and OHPing 1x. There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
I'm going to jump in and mention that it DOES add pull ups at some point. I think the idea right NOW is to provide *some* base amount of strength. I'm not quite sure at which point the pull ups are incorporated, but I know that they are.0 -
A huge "thank you!" to everyone that has responded.
The question of what I want to get out of weight lifting has come up more than once, and I'm not entirely sure how to answer it.
For lack of a better way of expressing this, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.3 -
There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
i have starting strength but just use it for lift-specific form reference; never implemented the programming side of it. i thought rippetoe included cleans in the lineup?
i'd go look for the book and find the answer myself, but that would mean standing up and walking over to the bookshelf and i'm on a rest day
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A huge "thank you!" to everyone that has responded.
The question of what I want to get out of weight lifting has come up more than once, and I'm not entirely sure how to answer it.
For lack of a better way of expressing this, I am currently very soft and squishy. As I lose weight, I would like to become less soft and squishy, where resistance training should - theoretically - help.
Well, to put it in context with your original question - two days a week of resistance training will help a lot more than if you did no days a week of resistance training.
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canadianlbs wrote: »There's also no upper body pull movements at all, which is my main gripe with SS as a full body program (though, accessory lifts can fill that gap).
i have starting strength but just use it for lift-specific form reference; never implemented the programming side of it. i thought rippetoe included cleans in the lineup?
i'd go look for the book and find the answer myself, but that would mean standing up and walking over to the bookshelf and i'm on a rest day
Maybe eventually. He has a newbie progression program app out that I've been using, and right now it's just the DLs, squats, OH presses, and benching.
I like it a little more than 5X5. 5X5 got a little redundant for my preference.0 -
No it is not worthless
Once or twice a week is perfectly fine, don’t be ashamed.
Some people don’t go once or twice a decade2 -
This is not a popular program among MPF weight lifters (and likely to be bashed as bro-science or woo, so I will also include my results and reasons for choosing this program), but I am enjoying super slow strength training just once a week as outlined in the book, Body by Science, by Dr. Doug McGuff. I would like to recommend this program to the OP since she is specifically interested in strength training just once a week and this is a program designed to be done just once a week, so it might be a good fit for her. I got the book from my local library, but it is also available on Amazon.
My results after 12 weeks of 1x per week super slow strength workouts (overhead press, chest press, leg press, seated row, and lat pull down on machines) are that I started at a total cumulative weight of 150lbs and after 12 weeks I reached 280lbs, so I am very satisfied with my rate of progressive overload, my increasing strength, and increasing muscle definition. I am looking forward to starting a new 12 week session next week.
I chose the Body by Science program after lots of research because I wanted the safest possible strength training program (machines) and the minimum time commitment. My doctor was against weight lifting with a barbell for me as I am 56 and already have some osteoporosis but still haven't reached official menopause yet (so statistically the osteoporosis is likely to get worse after menopause). This is something of a science experiment for me as I had a DEXA scan at the beginning of my super slow training, and I will have another one after six months as some research studies have indicated it is possible to rebuild bone density through resistance training. I am also taking vitamin/mineral supplements (D, K2, calcium & magnesium) and using a topical hormone cream (progesterone & estriol) as some studies also indicate these can help rebuild bone density in conjunction with strength training. Also, increasing muscle strength is supposed to help with stability to help prevent falls and possible fractures.
Also, I am a firm believer in only doing exercise I actually enjoy because I know from experience I won't stick to anything I dislike, and I've always preferred less frequent, short & intense bursts of exercise and couldn't stick daily, longer, endurance types (e.g. I was good at running sprints and swimming butterfly short distances in high school and despised running or swimming longer distances).
My actual super slow workout only takes a maximum of about 15 minutes a week, plus I do 15 minutes of stretching afterwards, and I park my car 15 minutes from my fitness center in order to also get in 30 minutes of walking on my super slow training day each week. On my recovery days I usually walk and occasionally do a short 20 minute stretch or pilates mat workout at home. Before beginning this program, I was swimming 2-3x per week (short HIIT workouts under 20 minutes) and doing pilates (20-50 minute mat workouts at home) 2-3x per week and walking enough to get in a total of 60 minutes of activity every day of the week.
I am 5'3" and my weight range has been 114-119 for 18 months after a 20 lb. weight loss to improve blood pressure and blood sugar numbers (all back to normal now). I've mostly eaten at maintenance (slightly above during the holidays) and my trending weight has increased since starting super slow training from 115 to 118, but my measurements have stayed the same (35-25.5-35), so I hope the extra three pounds indicate some increasing muscle and bone density.
I would also like to mention that Lyle McDonald supports single set training on machines for beginners, very busy, and/or elderly people in his section "Beginning Weight Training Part 4: Body recomposition," because I've read lots of negative comments at MFP about super slow training and Body by Science because it's single set, training to failure, low volume, machine type workouts. I definitely need a week of recovery in between my super slow workouts because when I occasionally had to work out after only 4-5 days of recovery due to scheduling issues, my time under tension and weight decreased from the previous session whereas after a week of recovery I was almost always able to increase my time under tension and/or the amount of weight.0
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