Keto for gaining!

mikethornton117
mikethornton117 Posts: 9 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
Hey all, just joined today and thought I'd drop in to ask for help due to time constraints and all around stress. I've got to kick off another Ketosis tagged with a goal to gain from 180 pounds in a body that stands, (and sits) six feet six inches tall.

What would you all do? I don't even know where to begin

Here's the target!

3360 Cal
5%/42 g Carbs
25%/210 g Protein
70%/261 g Fat

I'm super overwhelmed and would welcome any and all advice. Bulk Cooking.Cost Effective.Shopping list.Inspiration.Prayers. God bless

Replies

  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    mikethornton117 wrote: »
    Hey all, just joined today and thought I'd drop in to ask for help due to time constraints and all around stress. I've got to kick off another Ketosis tagged with a goal to gain from 180 pounds in a body that stands, (and sits) six feet six inches tall.

    What would you all do? I don't even know where to begin

    Here's the target!

    3360 Cal
    5%/42 g Carbs
    25%/210 g Protein
    70%/261 g Fat

    I'm super overwhelmed and would welcome any and all advice. Bulk Cooking.Cost Effective.Shopping list.Inspiration.Prayers. God bless

    I wouldn't follow a keto diet for bulking. All you would be doing is taxing your body for inefficient energy source. Carbs are king when it comes to bulking and fairly inexpensive.

    I would keep protien the same as it is reasonable. I would get my fats around 80g and fill the rest with carbs.

    They're also king when it comes to strength training, since ATP is derived primarily from glucose. As you said, why tax your body for an inefficient energy source? It's like trying to run a race car on watered-down gasoline.
  • mikethornton117
    mikethornton117 Posts: 9 Member
    edited February 2018
    I'm drawn to Keto for the psychological benefits of focusing in class among other things. More for mental capability, less for bulking. Keto is good for multiple concussions, which unfortunately I have endured. Doc advised me to go on it also. So trying to find some help here.

    Does anyone have any advice for bulk cooking, or even how to optimize the app for better success?
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    mikethornton117 wrote: »
    I'm drawn to Keto for the psychological benefits of focusing in class among other things. More for mental capability, less for bulking. Keto is good for multiple concussions, which unfortunately I have endured. Doc advised me to go on it also. So trying to find some help here.

    Does anyone have any advice for bulk cooking, or even how to set up my app to assist me better?

    what?

    Imma need you to explain this some more.

    But yes- it's absolutely possible to bulk on Keto- it just- super sucks. You're going to be drinking a LOT of calories. And feel really uncomfortable a lot of the time.

    Bulk cooking? yeah- buy more stuff- cook it all at once- put it in containers- then consume.
    Not sure what type of advice you're looking for- it's not rocket science. Just cook a *fk* load of food LOL
  • dansidorkin
    dansidorkin Posts: 6 Member
    Also, a 95% meat diet is expensive and better to be done with friends because then the price gets chopped down at least by 1/2 when everyone contributes.
  • Cbean08
    Cbean08 Posts: 1,092 Member
    If you want to do keto, then fine, do keto. But I agree that maintaining a bulk on primarily protein and fat will be uncomfortable. Also, invest in a good amount of Gas X or Bean-O or the like. You're going to need it.

    In order to get calories you will want to consume as much fat as you can stand since it's calorie dense. Protein is a filling macro and it is expensive.

    Look for fatty cuts of meat - ground beef, pork sausage, salami, lamb, bacon, salmon, mackerel, eel. Select fats that go with most things - butter, oil, mayo, heavy cream, nuts, nut butter, avocado.

    To make a meal- select your serving of meat and a vegetable. So say, steak and brussel sprouts. Cook the steak in butter. Make a cream sauce with heavy cream and seasonings and cover the steak. Flash fry the brussel sprouts and top with nuts and cheese.
  • mikethornton117
    mikethornton117 Posts: 9 Member
    dansidorkin wrote: »
    Ketosis is best for killing fat off your frame. Even though you will get 99% your protein, and you will be more energized than usual, this diet is bad for the liver because the liver has to process everything that goes into your system and because it is lacking carbohydrates, your liver will start processing a LOT more fat, creating ketone as a byproduct (which by they way is how you measure if you are in Ketosis). Usually, the fat associated with this is bad fat (because even though you will be sticking to extra-lean ground beef and pork chops, fat is your main source of energy when substituting carbohydrates). Consider this diet when you have built the mass that you want, but don't let it hinder you. You can use this diet even for endurance training, like long bike rides spanning 200kms in 12 hours (which I have done as an example, feel free to ask for details).

    Here's how to get into Ketosis faster, because I won't discourage you from it for building at all:
    1. Stay away from carbohydrates for the first week and buy ketone sticks to measure ketosis progress.
    2. At the end of the first week, you will most likely be in the brownest part of the stick (you measure by peeing in a cup and dipping the stick).
    3. Make sure you are INTENSELY exercising in the first week, which means going 80%+ maximum effort or heart rate in cardiovascular and strength training, because this will purge carbs. The higher the effort the more carbohydrates that are purged which is key to getting into Ketosis.
    4. Do not cut off the fat of your meat. Pork Chops are exceptionally great when it comes to Ketosis, because of their high protein and high fat. Also, stick to smaller, portioned meals, because hunger in Ketosis is crazy. Do not use sauces, check your salt for carbohydrates (I know it sounds stupid) but ALWAYS CHECK YOUR FOOD FOR SUGAR OR CARBOHYDRATES.
    5. Only stay on it for a month or two. You will eventually pee out a pound of fat a day, but there will be a stalling point (after about 20-30lbs if you're overweight, or 5-10lbs if you're already at around 15% body fat).
    6. Consult a dietitian. They will be your best friend.

    Remember, no single diet is a good diet. A little bit of everything is the way to go, don't stick to one "wide-accepted" *kitten* because no single diet will suffice. Most importantly, listen to your body.

    Well said! Thanks for the advice.

    I'd like to clarify that it'd be nice to gain some weight over time, but bulking fails in value in contrast to mental focus and capability considering my focus on school. I'd like to restore peak cognitive function to before the endured head traumas, as per the advice of my doctor.
  • mikethornton117
    mikethornton117 Posts: 9 Member
    Cbean08 wrote: »
    If you want to do keto, then fine, do keto. But I agree that maintaining a bulk on primarily protein and fat will be uncomfortable. Also, invest in a good amount of Gas X or Bean-O or the like. You're going to need it.

    In order to get calories you will want to consume as much fat as you can stand since it's calorie dense. Protein is a filling macro and it is expensive.

    Look for fatty cuts of meat - ground beef, pork sausage, salami, lamb, bacon, salmon, mackerel, eel. Select fats that go with most things - butter, oil, mayo, heavy cream, nuts, nut butter, avocado.

    To make a meal- select your serving of meat and a vegetable. So say, steak and brussel sprouts. Cook the steak in butter. Make a cream sauce with heavy cream and seasonings and cover the steak. Flash fry the brussel sprouts and top with nuts and cheese.

    Thanks a lot. I wish the store was still open after reading that!
  • se015
    se015 Posts: 583 Member
    Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
    Everyone responds differently, but man, I hope it goes better for you than it did for me. My one keto fulk was awful. All I got was fat, weak and tired. Amusingly, I actually progress in strength better on a PSMF cut than I did on a keto bulk.

    What's a PSMF cut?
  • se015
    se015 Posts: 583 Member
    dansidorkin wrote: »
    Ketosis is best for killing fat off your frame. Even though you will get 99% your protein, and you will be more energized than usual, this diet is bad for the liver because the liver has to process everything that goes into your system and because it is lacking carbohydrates, your liver will start processing a LOT more fat, creating ketone as a byproduct (which by they way is how you measure if you are in Ketosis). Usually, the fat associated with this is bad fat (because even though you will be sticking to extra-lean ground beef and pork chops, fat is your main source of energy when substituting carbohydrates). Consider this diet when you have built the mass that you want, but don't let it hinder you. You can use this diet even for endurance training, like long bike rides spanning 200kms in 12 hours (which I have done as an example, feel free to ask for details).

    Here's how to get into Ketosis faster, because I won't discourage you from it for building at all:
    1. Stay away from carbohydrates for the first week and buy ketone sticks to measure ketosis progress.
    2. At the end of the first week, you will most likely be in the brownest part of the stick (you measure by peeing in a cup and dipping the stick).
    3. Make sure you are INTENSELY exercising in the first week, which means going 80%+ maximum effort or heart rate in cardiovascular and strength training, because this will purge carbs. The higher the effort the more carbohydrates that are purged which is key to getting into Ketosis.
    4. Do not cut off the fat of your meat. Pork Chops are exceptionally great when it comes to Ketosis, because of their high protein and high fat. Also, stick to smaller, portioned meals, because hunger in Ketosis is crazy. Do not use sauces, check your salt for carbohydrates (I know it sounds stupid) but ALWAYS CHECK YOUR FOOD FOR SUGAR OR CARBOHYDRATES.
    5. Only stay on it for a month or two. You will eventually pee out a pound of fat a day, but there will be a stalling point (after about 20-30lbs if you're overweight, or 5-10lbs if you're already at around 15% body fat).
    6. Consult a dietitian. They will be your best friend.

    Remember, no single diet is a good diet. A little bit of everything is the way to go, don't stick to one "wide-accepted" *kitten* because no single diet will suffice. Most importantly, listen to your body.

    You will pee out the fat?? How does one pee out the fat, does it become waste and filted out by the kidneys??
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    dansidorkin wrote: »
    Ketosis is best for killing fat off your frame. Even though you will get 99% your protein, and you will be more energized than usual, this diet is bad for the liver because the liver has to process everything that goes into your system and because it is lacking carbohydrates, your liver will start processing a LOT more fat, creating ketone as a byproduct (which by they way is how you measure if you are in Ketosis). Usually, the fat associated with this is bad fat (because even though you will be sticking to extra-lean ground beef and pork chops, fat is your main source of energy when substituting carbohydrates). Consider this diet when you have built the mass that you want, but don't let it hinder you. You can use this diet even for endurance training, like long bike rides spanning 200kms in 12 hours (which I have done as an example, feel free to ask for details).

    Here's how to get into Ketosis faster, because I won't discourage you from it for building at all:
    1. Stay away from carbohydrates for the first week and buy ketone sticks to measure ketosis progress.
    2. At the end of the first week, you will most likely be in the brownest part of the stick (you measure by peeing in a cup and dipping the stick).
    3. Make sure you are INTENSELY exercising in the first week, which means going 80%+ maximum effort or heart rate in cardiovascular and strength training, because this will purge carbs. The higher the effort the more carbohydrates that are purged which is key to getting into Ketosis.
    4. Do not cut off the fat of your meat. Pork Chops are exceptionally great when it comes to Ketosis, because of their high protein and high fat. Also, stick to smaller, portioned meals, because hunger in Ketosis is crazy. Do not use sauces, check your salt for carbohydrates (I know it sounds stupid) but ALWAYS CHECK YOUR FOOD FOR SUGAR OR CARBOHYDRATES.
    5. Only stay on it for a month or two. You will eventually pee out a pound of fat a day, but there will be a stalling point (after about 20-30lbs if you're overweight, or 5-10lbs if you're already at around 15% body fat).
    6. Consult a dietitian. They will be your best friend.

    Remember, no single diet is a good diet. A little bit of everything is the way to go, don't stick to one "wide-accepted" *kitten* because no single diet will suffice. Most importantly, listen to your body.

    You will pee out the fat?? How does one pee out the fat, does it become waste and filted out by the kidneys??

    That's a really creepy visual.
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
    Everyone responds differently, but man, I hope it goes better for you than it did for me. My one keto fulk was awful. All I got was fat, weak and tired. Amusingly, I actually progress in strength better on a PSMF cut than I did on a keto bulk.

    What's a PSMF cut?

    Lyle McDonald’s Rapid Fat Loss Protocol. Basically eating nothing but a set amount of protein (formula based on LBM), enough essential fats to cover needs, a multivitamin, sodium, potassium and nothing else.

    Not something I’d recommend to anyone who doesn’t have extreme self-control, and a lot of masochism.
  • mikethornton117
    mikethornton117 Posts: 9 Member
    edited February 2018
    I feel the need to say I’m not fat I’m skinny as hell and fat loss isn’t the goal. Mental focus is, and health is, so doc and I decided on Keto.

    I’m 6 foot 6 180 pounds.
  • khenry0207
    khenry0207 Posts: 1 Member
    So do you suggest that I use keto to shred and get body fat percentage lower. Then change my eating style for the gains?
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    edited February 2018
    khenry0207 wrote: »
    So do you suggest that I use keto to shred and get body fat percentage lower. Then change my eating style for the gains?

    Keto doesn't get you shredded. If you like keto as a way of eating, do keto. Understand that there will be workout performance drawbacks that will work against your muscle building goals.

    Alternately, you can just get adequate proteins and fats, fill in the rest with carbs and lift weights on a progressive program. That will get you to your goal of muscle building more efficiently. Keto is no magic pill and has drawback based on your stated goals. This was stated above by multiple people.
  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    khenry0207 wrote: »
    So do you suggest that I use keto to shred and get body fat percentage lower. Then change my eating style for the gains?

    Keto diet is no magic, you will get the same results if you eat with carbs....keto is only useful if:
    1) You need to lose weight asap for a photoshoot or for whatever reason. Although with keto you will lose weight faster initially than a traditional diet, but that is because of water weight...not fat loss...at long term, it's on par with any other diet out there, it is not better or worse.
    2) You have health issues and your doctor ordered you to stay away from carbs because of those medical issues.
    3) You just enjoy high fat diet
    4) You lack discipline and getting rid of carbs entirely is the only way for you to stick with the diet

    Beyond it, to lose weight, you need to be in a caloric deficit. Just because you are on keto, it doesn't mean calories no longer count, they still do. As I said previously, for weight loss...whether your doing keto, Intermittent fasting or whatever diet out there, calorie for calorie, they are all equal. With that said, if you do lift and/or do cardio, keto is the weakest diet for physical activities. There's a reason why most athletes eat a *kitten* ton of carbs. Carbs may not be necessary for survival, but it gives you fuel to your working activities and helps you thrive in them. Going without carbs while working out is not doing you any favors.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    dansidorkin wrote: »
    Ketosis is best for killing fat off your frame. Even though you will get 99% your protein, and you will be more energized than usual, this diet is bad for the liver because the liver has to process everything that goes into your system and because it is lacking carbohydrates, your liver will start processing a LOT more fat, creating ketone as a byproduct (which by they way is how you measure if you are in Ketosis). Usually, the fat associated with this is bad fat (because even though you will be sticking to extra-lean ground beef and pork chops, fat is your main source of energy when substituting carbohydrates). Consider this diet when you have built the mass that you want, but don't let it hinder you. You can use this diet even for endurance training, like long bike rides spanning 200kms in 12 hours (which I have done as an example, feel free to ask for details).

    Here's how to get into Ketosis faster, because I won't discourage you from it for building at all:
    1. Stay away from carbohydrates for the first week and buy ketone sticks to measure ketosis progress.
    2. At the end of the first week, you will most likely be in the brownest part of the stick (you measure by peeing in a cup and dipping the stick).
    3. Make sure you are INTENSELY exercising in the first week, which means going 80%+ maximum effort or heart rate in cardiovascular and strength training, because this will purge carbs. The higher the effort the more carbohydrates that are purged which is key to getting into Ketosis.
    4. Do not cut off the fat of your meat. Pork Chops are exceptionally great when it comes to Ketosis, because of their high protein and high fat. Also, stick to smaller, portioned meals, because hunger in Ketosis is crazy. Do not use sauces, check your salt for carbohydrates (I know it sounds stupid) but ALWAYS CHECK YOUR FOOD FOR SUGAR OR CARBOHYDRATES.
    5. Only stay on it for a month or two. You will eventually pee out a pound of fat a day, but there will be a stalling point (after about 20-30lbs if you're overweight, or 5-10lbs if you're already at around 15% body fat).
    6. Consult a dietitian. They will be your best friend.

    Remember, no single diet is a good diet. A little bit of everything is the way to go, don't stick to one "wide-accepted" *kitten* because no single diet will suffice. Most importantly, listen to your body.

    You will pee out the fat?? How does one pee out the fat, does it become waste and filted out by the kidneys??

    it's like adipose from Dr Who
  • jessicapk
    jessicapk Posts: 574 Member
    Seth1825 wrote: »
    dansidorkin wrote: »
    Ketosis is best for killing fat off your frame. Even though you will get 99% your protein, and you will be more energized than usual, this diet is bad for the liver because the liver has to process everything that goes into your system and because it is lacking carbohydrates, your liver will start processing a LOT more fat, creating ketone as a byproduct (which by they way is how you measure if you are in Ketosis). Usually, the fat associated with this is bad fat (because even though you will be sticking to extra-lean ground beef and pork chops, fat is your main source of energy when substituting carbohydrates). Consider this diet when you have built the mass that you want, but don't let it hinder you. You can use this diet even for endurance training, like long bike rides spanning 200kms in 12 hours (which I have done as an example, feel free to ask for details).

    Here's how to get into Ketosis faster, because I won't discourage you from it for building at all:
    1. Stay away from carbohydrates for the first week and buy ketone sticks to measure ketosis progress.
    2. At the end of the first week, you will most likely be in the brownest part of the stick (you measure by peeing in a cup and dipping the stick).
    3. Make sure you are INTENSELY exercising in the first week, which means going 80%+ maximum effort or heart rate in cardiovascular and strength training, because this will purge carbs. The higher the effort the more carbohydrates that are purged which is key to getting into Ketosis.
    4. Do not cut off the fat of your meat. Pork Chops are exceptionally great when it comes to Ketosis, because of their high protein and high fat. Also, stick to smaller, portioned meals, because hunger in Ketosis is crazy. Do not use sauces, check your salt for carbohydrates (I know it sounds stupid) but ALWAYS CHECK YOUR FOOD FOR SUGAR OR CARBOHYDRATES.
    5. Only stay on it for a month or two. You will eventually pee out a pound of fat a day, but there will be a stalling point (after about 20-30lbs if you're overweight, or 5-10lbs if you're already at around 15% body fat).
    6. Consult a dietitian. They will be your best friend.

    Remember, no single diet is a good diet. A little bit of everything is the way to go, don't stick to one "wide-accepted" *kitten* because no single diet will suffice. Most importantly, listen to your body.

    You will pee out the fat?? How does one pee out the fat, does it become waste and filted out by the kidneys??

    When fat is broken down due to a calorie deficit, it is expelled from the body as water, which you pee out or sweat out, etc. and carbon dioxide, which you breath out.
  • ZodFit
    ZodFit Posts: 394 Member
    edited February 2018
    High fat and caloric surplus is a bad idea

    Keto is good for cuts because the fats keep you full and you won't crave foods. I can't see the benefit when bulking

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