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Which is more important: eating when hungry or stopping when full?
Replies
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »5738_Cassiel wrote: »I've been contemplating using intuitive eating for a bit now; or at least lose weight without counting calories. Why am I here? Good question. Anyways moving on. Which is more important: only eating when hungry or stopping when you're full? I would think only eating when hungry because if you overeat it'll take longer for you to become hungry, ya feel?
Walk me through how intuitive spending would work. Then apply this to eating.
There is nothing intuitive about eating. If you want to manage anything you need to build a system of control around it or you will fail.
Some people can intuitively control their eating.
I lost weight with intuitive eating because it became clear very quickly that measuring and logging food was not for me. For me, of the two I'd say only eating when hungry was more important.
But more specifically, not eating for the first time each day until I was really and properly hungry. Because for me, once I start eating I want to keep eating.
This is not intuitive. You rejected one system of control and replaced it with another.
I don't give eating or calories conscious thought on a regular basis. How is that not intuitive?
Not making a statement about what you do, but I think there's a difference between habit-based eating and intuitive eating, and yet in neither case would you necessarily give calories a thought.
Doing something without conscious thought is the definition of intuitive.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »5738_Cassiel wrote: »I've been contemplating using intuitive eating for a bit now; or at least lose weight without counting calories. Why am I here? Good question. Anyways moving on. Which is more important: only eating when hungry or stopping when you're full? I would think only eating when hungry because if you overeat it'll take longer for you to become hungry, ya feel?
Walk me through how intuitive spending would work. Then apply this to eating.
There is nothing intuitive about eating. If you want to manage anything you need to build a system of control around it or you will fail.
Some people can intuitively control their eating.
I lost weight with intuitive eating because it became clear very quickly that measuring and logging food was not for me. For me, of the two I'd say only eating when hungry was more important.
But more specifically, not eating for the first time each day until I was really and properly hungry. Because for me, once I start eating I want to keep eating.
This is not intuitive. You rejected one system of control and replaced it with another.
I don't give eating or calories conscious thought on a regular basis. How is that not intuitive?
Not making a statement about what you do, but I think there's a difference between habit-based eating and intuitive eating, and yet in neither case would you necessarily give calories a thought.
Doing something without conscious thought is the definition of intuitive.
I think it's different -- habit is learned, not innate. Intuition refers to "pure, untaught knowledge."
IME, people who talk about intuition seem to think (more often than not) that people who focus on things like schedules or habits or whether an amount seems reasonable, and not just "am I hungry" or "do I want that" are doing something else. The idea is that in some impossible natural, unspoiled state, humans would never overeat, and if we can get in touch with that we would not, or something like that.
I see that as not actually how humans work, and I believe in habits and schedules and so on as good ways to avoid overeating, at least for me.
If others find intuitive eating works or want to use it for something more similar to what I do, great. My point is just that there are other ways to avoid having to think about calories/dieting much without it being based solely on "intuition."0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »5738_Cassiel wrote: »I've been contemplating using intuitive eating for a bit now; or at least lose weight without counting calories. Why am I here? Good question. Anyways moving on. Which is more important: only eating when hungry or stopping when you're full? I would think only eating when hungry because if you overeat it'll take longer for you to become hungry, ya feel?
Walk me through how intuitive spending would work. Then apply this to eating.
There is nothing intuitive about eating. If you want to manage anything you need to build a system of control around it or you will fail.
Some people can intuitively control their eating.
I lost weight with intuitive eating because it became clear very quickly that measuring and logging food was not for me. For me, of the two I'd say only eating when hungry was more important.
But more specifically, not eating for the first time each day until I was really and properly hungry. Because for me, once I start eating I want to keep eating.
This is not intuitive. You rejected one system of control and replaced it with another.
I don't give eating or calories conscious thought on a regular basis. How is that not intuitive?
Not making a statement about what you do, but I think there's a difference between habit-based eating and intuitive eating, and yet in neither case would you necessarily give calories a thought.
Doing something without conscious thought is the definition of intuitive.
I think it's different -- habit is learned, not innate. Intuition refers to "pure, untaught knowledge."
IME, people who talk about intuition seem to think (more often than not) that people who focus on things like schedules or habits or whether an amount seems reasonable, and not just "am I hungry" or "do I want that" are doing something else. The idea is that in some impossible natural, unspoiled state, humans would never overeat, and if we can get in touch with that we would not, or something like that.
I see that as not actually how humans work, and I believe in habits and schedules and so on as good ways to avoid overeating, at least for me.
If others find intuitive eating works or want to use it for something more similar to what I do, great. My point is just that there are other ways to avoid having to think about calories/dieting much without it being based solely on "intuition."
I would agree with some of that, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word. What people "seem to think" is irrelevant.0 -
I think it's actually the question of whether it's learned or not. Habit is learned, intuition means from something in you, not learned.2
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's actually the question of whether it's learned or not. Habit is learned, intuition means from something in you, not learned.
Does it? Intuition means following your gut. Doing what you believe to be correct without giving it a lot of conscious thought. Learning develops intuition.
I think this is a good explanation.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-intuition-and-instinct
“Intuition is when your mind takes in massive amounts of information, and processes it so thoroughly, and quickly, that you are unaware of the process, but are left with the answer.”
In other words, intuition is not some mystical bolt blasted into your brain from the ether. You actually HAVE thought things through, you just did it so quickly and so well that you miss the conscious process of it. So you should trust your intuition because it’s not a cheat, and it’s not illogical. Your mind actually has done the work.4 -
I think calories and budgets work as an analogy extremely well.
And interestingly I have a friend who built his business off intuitive eating. It bothers me tremendously that he "specializes" in women's work. i.e. he takes no male clients as far as I know. I know this person from my gym before he moved. I find it fascinating and slightly creepy- but people say his work helps.
Regardless- you CAN manage your weight "intuitively" many people do- I find those people tend to be outdoor- active- have hobbies type people. It works for some people- not for others.
I like numbers- and it helps me. So I use calories.2 -
Stopping before you're full is how to maintain/lose weight IMO0
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I tried this approach, it was great for maintaining my weight but I was trying to lose it.0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's actually the question of whether it's learned or not. Habit is learned, intuition means from something in you, not learned.
Does it? Intuition means following your gut. Doing what you believe to be correct without giving it a lot of conscious thought. Learning develops intuition.
I think this is a good explanation.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-intuition-and-instinct
“Intuition is when your mind takes in massive amounts of information, and processes it so thoroughly, and quickly, that you are unaware of the process, but are left with the answer.”
In other words, intuition is not some mystical bolt blasted into your brain from the ether. You actually HAVE thought things through, you just did it so quickly and so well that you miss the conscious process of it. So you should trust your intuition because it’s not a cheat, and it’s not illogical. Your mind actually has done the work.
I see the difference between intuition and habit as intuition means it's all innate (not something mystical and not instinct, but still innate). Habit is learned, but learned to the point that it's ingrained, and you don't think about it. When riding a bike or driving a car you may rely on habitual actions, not have to think about them (thinking may be a problem even, as if you overthink how to do a familiar action), but it's NOT innate, it's learned.
The whole POINT behind intuitive eating is that humans will just naturally eat sensibly and healthfully and not too much unless they are somehow messed up, so we need to get back to this state of following out feelings. Focusing on habit is thus, IMO, quite different.
Maybe for you it's intuition, not habit, that's great, whatever, not saying it can't be, and it's clear you really like the term intuitive eating for what you do. But I think habitual eating fits my approach better since in my view humans largely do adopt customary eating habits (ideas about when to eat and what to eat) that are learned and become habit, and they tend to (in most societies) structure how we eat. That I find this a much easier way to structure my own eating is not, IMO, because I am messed up and not eating like I'm in some state of nature (that doesn't exist). And part of getting to this point was not simply deciding to analyze whether I am hungry or full, it was by deciding that I would eat at certain times only and reasonable amounts and finding, hmm, I'm not hungry, and am totally fine not eating more or more often. (Which I expected, since at other times of my life I'd eaten 2-3x per day and been happy with it.)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I see the difference between intuition and habit as intuition means it's all innate (not something mystical and not instinct, but still innate). Habit is learned, but learned to the point that it's ingrained, and you don't think about it. When riding a bike or driving a car you may rely on habitual actions, not have to think about them (thinking may be a problem even, as if you overthink how to do a familiar action), but it's NOT innate, it's learned.
The whole POINT behind intuitive eating is that humans will just naturally eat sensibly and healthfully and not too much unless they are somehow messed up, so we need to get back to this state of following out feelings. Focusing on habit is thus, IMO, quite different.
Just want to pipe up and say I agree with this definition.
My wife eats intuitively. She eats enough and that's good. Takes her weeks to get through a box of chocolates (hey, she had 2 yesterday). She is in the middle of a healthy BMI.
I'll be happy to get in the habit of eating like her, but it is something I still have to learn and make a habit. If I get there (and no longer have to count calories to maintain) I will still think of it as a learned habit and not intuitive.
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Slow Eating. Whodathunk? I hypothesize that the hormones our body produces to signal our satiety are slow, and that while they are slowly being expressed and detected we are able to continue stuffing our faces. The slow eaters manage to meet their satiety signals at the point of sufficiency.
The Japanese also have the concept "Hara hachi bun me" which basically means “Eat until you are eight parts full”.
You do not usually eat until you are full in Japan. You eat until you have had enough.
Japanese portion sizes are also about 1/2 of the "Western diet".
腹八分目/はらはちぶんめ
The two concepts go together, but if you learn to eat with hashi (chopsticks) instead of just shoveling food into your mouth then you will be practically forced to slow down.
Roughly 15 minutes after saliva first mixes with food in one's mouth the brain will usually signal that it is getting "full".
If you really want to slow things down, try using real Korean chopsticks.
They are so evil that even Koreans give up and use spoons sometimes...
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's actually the question of whether it's learned or not. Habit is learned, intuition means from something in you, not learned.
Does it? Intuition means following your gut. Doing what you believe to be correct without giving it a lot of conscious thought. Learning develops intuition.
I think this is a good explanation.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-intuition-and-instinct
“Intuition is when your mind takes in massive amounts of information, and processes it so thoroughly, and quickly, that you are unaware of the process, but are left with the answer.”
In other words, intuition is not some mystical bolt blasted into your brain from the ether. You actually HAVE thought things through, you just did it so quickly and so well that you miss the conscious process of it. So you should trust your intuition because it’s not a cheat, and it’s not illogical. Your mind actually has done the work.
I see the difference between intuition and habit as intuition means it's all innate (not something mystical and not instinct, but still innate). Habit is learned, but learned to the point that it's ingrained, and you don't think about it. When riding a bike or driving a car you may rely on habitual actions, not have to think about them (thinking may be a problem even, as if you overthink how to do a familiar action), but it's NOT innate, it's learned.
The whole POINT behind intuitive eating is that humans will just naturally eat sensibly and healthfully and not too much unless they are somehow messed up, so we need to get back to this state of following out feelings. Focusing on habit is thus, IMO, quite different.
Maybe for you it's intuition, not habit, that's great, whatever, not saying it can't be, and it's clear you really like the term intuitive eating for what you do. But I think habitual eating fits my approach better since in my view humans largely do adopt customary eating habits (ideas about when to eat and what to eat) that are learned and become habit, and they tend to (in most societies) structure how we eat. That I find this a much easier way to structure my own eating is not, IMO, because I am messed up and not eating like I'm in some state of nature (that doesn't exist). And part of getting to this point was not simply deciding to analyze whether I am hungry or full, it was by deciding that I would eat at certain times only and reasonable amounts and finding, hmm, I'm not hungry, and am totally fine not eating more or more often. (Which I expected, since at other times of my life I'd eaten 2-3x per day and been happy with it.)
I wasn't discussing what you do. I actually don't label my eating as anything other than eating, but given the definition of the word intuitive (again, going by the dictionary only) it does seem to fit. Much more so than habit, especially since my daily and weekly calories are all over the place, as are my macros and often the times of day I eat.
Having a day job my weekly schedule is somewhat stable, though that is more working around the company's schedule than habit or intuition. When I don't work, all bets are off.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's actually the question of whether it's learned or not. Habit is learned, intuition means from something in you, not learned.
Does it? Intuition means following your gut. Doing what you believe to be correct without giving it a lot of conscious thought. Learning develops intuition.
I think this is a good explanation.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-intuition-and-instinct
“Intuition is when your mind takes in massive amounts of information, and processes it so thoroughly, and quickly, that you are unaware of the process, but are left with the answer.”
In other words, intuition is not some mystical bolt blasted into your brain from the ether. You actually HAVE thought things through, you just did it so quickly and so well that you miss the conscious process of it. So you should trust your intuition because it’s not a cheat, and it’s not illogical. Your mind actually has done the work.
I see the difference between intuition and habit as intuition means it's all innate (not something mystical and not instinct, but still innate). Habit is learned, but learned to the point that it's ingrained, and you don't think about it. When riding a bike or driving a car you may rely on habitual actions, not have to think about them (thinking may be a problem even, as if you overthink how to do a familiar action), but it's NOT innate, it's learned.
The whole POINT behind intuitive eating is that humans will just naturally eat sensibly and healthfully and not too much unless they are somehow messed up, so we need to get back to this state of following out feelings. Focusing on habit is thus, IMO, quite different.
Maybe for you it's intuition, not habit, that's great, whatever, not saying it can't be, and it's clear you really like the term intuitive eating for what you do. But I think habitual eating fits my approach better since in my view humans largely do adopt customary eating habits (ideas about when to eat and what to eat) that are learned and become habit, and they tend to (in most societies) structure how we eat. That I find this a much easier way to structure my own eating is not, IMO, because I am messed up and not eating like I'm in some state of nature (that doesn't exist). And part of getting to this point was not simply deciding to analyze whether I am hungry or full, it was by deciding that I would eat at certain times only and reasonable amounts and finding, hmm, I'm not hungry, and am totally fine not eating more or more often. (Which I expected, since at other times of my life I'd eaten 2-3x per day and been happy with it.)
I wasn't discussing what you do. I actually don't label my eating as anything other than eating, but given the definition of the word intuitive (again, going by the dictionary only) it does seem to fit. Much more so than habit, especially since my daily and weekly calories are all over the place, as are my macros and often the times of day I eat.
Having a day job my weekly schedule is somewhat stable, though that is more working around the company's schedule than habit or intuition. When I don't work, all bets are off.
I wasn't commenting on what you do, since obviously I don't know enough about it to have an opinion. I was just responding to the idea that if you don't think about it it must be intuitive. I think there are other possibilities (things someone who doesn't want to count but has trouble intuitively eating) might try.
For me, relying on a regular schedule and habits (although I don't follow them 100% of the time, obviously, and my weekends are usually different from weekdays) is far easier and less stress than worrying about whether I am really hungry or full. I'm usually not all that hungry unless I skip multiple meals or something, but if I start THINKING about whether I am hungry or want to eat, I'm likely to start wanting to eat. ;-)1 -
I looked up the definition for habit
"a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up."
I don't see that ever applying to eating for me.0 -
Okay.
The point, of course, is that habit based eating is another way to eat besides "thinking about it all the time" and intuitive eating, which you seemed to pose as the two options. Not that it should be what you want to do.2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I looked up the definition for habit
"a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up."
I don't see that ever applying to eating for me.
to me the difference here is- I habitually eat a certain time (like 10:30-11 AM)- and if I don't- I get dry heaving nauseous sick.
I habitually pick the same thing to eat.- because I'm easy. And boring- and don't want to think- ti's the same thing- every week.
But-Because I intuitively gravitate toward more vegetables for snacks it's carrots- with some peanut butter- every day. It's how I was raised and what I prefer.
But I eat carrots with peanut butter every day at 10:30- 11 Am because I am a creature of habit who instinctively likes vegetables as a snack.
I don't think everyone's the same on this matter- it's just not possible.2 -
Intuitive eating is related to mindful eating - here is an article comparing the two:
https://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/whats-the-difference-between-mindful-eating-and-intuitive-eating.html
The dietitians who developed intuitive eating did a lot of work with eating disorders, so the focus is on the healthy relationship with food, whereas mindful eating approaches are more focused on the becoming aware of when and what you're eating rather than stuffing your face out of boredom or whatever.
Neither has anything to do with balancing your checkbook.4 -
I think intuitive eating as described is a good idea for those with certain kinds of eating issues, and I've seen it praised as extremely helpful for those with long dieting histories and feelings of shame around food and so on. What I dislike is the idea that the only reason humans don't intuitively avoid gaining weight is that we are messed up, since I think a lot of people just naturally want to eat when tasty food is around -- it makes evolutionary sense. (This idea is not from the "inventors" of intuitive eating, I don't think, but I've seen them a lot on MFP.) IMO, until recently eating was restrained culturally, as well as by scarcity -- the kinds of things I mentioned before, things like eating times and customs, ideas about what a proper dinner looks like, so on, and if that kind of thing works for you (as it does for me), there's nothing wrong or unnatural or whatever about it, and it need not feel like one is thinking about it all the time.
My issues were never really feeling shame or guilt about eating or a long history of dieting, for which I am generally thankful. I do have other issues that allowing eating to be pretty habitual in some ways helps with.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Okay.
The point, of course, is that habit based eating is another way to eat besides "thinking about it all the time" and intuitive eating, which you seemed to pose as the two options. Not that it should be what you want to do.
No, I'm not posing any 2 options. I think there are many, many options. But, the OP asked about intuitive eating.0 -
Stopping before you are full.1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I think intuitive eating as described is a good idea for those with certain kinds of eating issues, and I've seen it praised as extremely helpful for those with long dieting histories and feelings of shame around food and so on. What I dislike is the idea that the only reason humans don't intuitively avoid gaining weight is that we are messed up, since I think a lot of people just naturally want to eat when tasty food is around -- it makes evolutionary sense. (This idea is not from the "inventors" of intuitive eating, I don't think, but I've seen them a lot on MFP.) IMO, until recently eating was restrained culturally, as well as by scarcity -- the kinds of things I mentioned before, things like eating times and customs, ideas about what a proper dinner looks like, so on, and if that kind of thing works for you (as it does for me), there's nothing wrong or unnatural or whatever about it, and it need not feel like one is thinking about it all the time.
My issues were never really feeling shame or guilt about eating or a long history of dieting, for which I am generally thankful. I do have other issues that allowing eating to be pretty habitual in some ways helps with.
I agree, I grew up with pretty strong ideas on when it was appropriate to eat and what those meals should look like. I didn't really think about food or what I was eating but I never had a problem with my weight until an illness upset the balance. I don't think there's anything wrong with habit or cultural based ways of eating. They work for a lot of people.2 -
I would call it conscious eating which would entail both eating when hungry and stopping when you are not hungry anymore. Need food, get food, don’t need food. If you follow the eat when hungry philosophy one must know what hungry is to prevent noshing all day long. I think a little bit of hunger can also make food more enjoyable savored and can teach us discipline since we aren’t always giving in. If I were to ignore hunger and stop when I’m full, I probably wouldn’t eat very frequently but if I let myself eat all the time, my discipline would slip over time and I’d be a slog. But I don’t think eating until your full is good since our bodies take some time to understand when it’s actually full so stop when not hungry anymore.0
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Wouldn't it be stopping when you are full?
Think about it, if you eat when you are hungry, you can keep eating as much as you want. There is no limit on your calories.
If you stop when you are full, then if you are not really hungry you will either not eat or take a lottle bit, realize you are full and stop. Limits the number of calories1 -
5738_Cassiel wrote: »I've been contemplating using intuitive eating for a bit now; or at least lose weight without counting calories. Why am I here? Good question. Anyways moving on. Which is more important: only eating when hungry or stopping when you're full? I would think only eating when hungry because if you overeat it'll take longer for you to become hungry, ya feel?
Eat when you're hungry and then stop when you aren't hungry. One shouldn't eat until they are full per say. I eat slowly and drink water in between bites it takes time for your brain to register that you are no longer hungy.0 -
blueheartrisen wrote: »"Hungry" is a vague thing that can be influenced by a lot of things that aren't actually hunger. I can waaaaaay overeat and then feel "hungry" a couple of hours later. I also tend to feel a lot of other things (spacy, irritable, headache, etc.) before I feel true hunger.
So, I'm going to vote for stopping when full.
Having planned meal/snack times (which would not be necessarily be waiting for "hunger") and eating to slightly less than full at those times can work for me if I am in the right frame of mind.
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"Intuitive eating" is how most overweight people got that way. It's the default.
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Intuitive eating will also not work on anyone who takes hunger/appetite increasing medications. I take 3 of these meds and if I ate "only when hungry" it would be all the time. I'm always hungry and I rarely feel full, except at big Holiday dinners where there is tons of food. I have heard that the difference between hunger and appetite is that appetite is when cookies, chips, snacks sound good, but veggies or leftovers don't and that hunger is when even yesterdays leftovers of something you don't love sound good. I do better to eat at certain times and watch my calories. I do, however, find that the whole eat slowly does help with feeling full on less food. If I eat slow, put my fork down between bites etc. I can feel satisfied on a lot less food.0
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Why are your only options starving or overeating?? There is a happy middle!2
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I would think with intuitive eating you would both eat when you are hungry and stop when full not one or the other.1
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5738_Cassiel wrote: »I've been contemplating using intuitive eating for a bit now; or at least lose weight without counting calories. Why am I here? Good question. Anyways moving on. Which is more important: only eating when hungry or stopping when you're full? I would think only eating when hungry because if you overeat it'll take longer for you to become hungry, ya feel?
I think it’s best to stop eating when you are full. It’s something I am trying to work on as I will aim to finish the entire plate. I think if you can master the art of stopping when your full then you will put less on your plate etc0
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