Thought Experiment
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tirowow12385 wrote: »The first scenario never stated that doing nothing will cause death, just that you did nothing. What we do know is the train can't go on either track unless the switch is activated. So you possibly committed a murder when no death was going to occur.
Second scenario, the correct bleeding heart answer is volunteering yourself and jump, if you didn't save anyone, at least you tried, you'll have a special place in whatever heaven you subscribe to.
Don't sacrifice someone else until you go at it first.
LOL. You're an out-of-the-box thinker and I like that. The real scenario is kind of lengthy in its description, but in the first one the train is on a course to hit the 5 people. In the second, only the "big guy" has the weight and mass to stop the train.0 -
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MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »I remember hearing this in college. Basically you choose to actively take one life, or passively take 5. I have also heard some dark variations of this, for example, to the people who would choose to sacrifice one life for the good of the many, what if the one person was your child and the other 5 were strangers? Many people change their answer (obviously).
Call me cold, but I'd do nothing. 5 people would die, but I wouldn't have actively decided that those 5 people's lives were more important than the one.
But inaction causes 5 deaths so you did choose to kill 5 people.1 -
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »tirowow12385 wrote: »The first scenario never stated that doing nothing will cause death, just that you did nothing. What we do know is the train can't go on either track unless the switch is activated. So you possibly committed a murder when no death was going to occur.
Second scenario, the correct bleeding heart answer is volunteering yourself and jump, if you didn't save anyone, at least you tried, you'll have a special place in whatever heaven you subscribe to.
Don't sacrifice someone else until you go at it first.
LOL. You're an out-of-the-box thinker and I like that. The real scenario is kind of lengthy in its description, but in the first one the train is on a course to hit the 5 people. In the second, only the "big guy" has the weight and mass to stop the train.
You wouldn't be big enough to stop the train, only pushing the large person would do that.1 -
tirowow12385 wrote: »The first scenario never stated that doing nothing will cause death, just that you did nothing. What we do know is the train can't go on either track unless the switch is activated. So you possibly committed a murder when no death was going to occur.
Second scenario, the correct bleeding heart answer is volunteering yourself and jump, if you didn't save anyone, at least you tried, you'll have a special place in whatever heaven you subscribe to.
Don't sacrifice someone else.
Wait, do we know that. I thought railroad switches just changed the rout, but the train is going down one route or the other either way unless it breaks. Isn't it?1 -
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@WorkerDrone83, no one needs to be thinking this hard on a friday, sheesh3
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I have been reading the answers to this, and in complete honesty I have no answer. I really do not know how I would react. I do not do well in emergency type situations, so I'd most likely die of a panic attack before I could make a decision.2
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MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »andreascjonsson wrote: »The dude from Vsouce actually did a live test with this. They tried with 7 people and 5 frooze or waited for someone else to take responsibility (even when there were noone else around), while 2 people actually took action and saved all but 1. Mind field S2E1
Its free to watch on youtube
Mind field is free now? I thought it was only on Youtube Red?
It is on youtube red but the first episode for both seasons are free to watch2 -
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They're 'working' on the track, not tied down or anything, so they will hear and see the trolley coming and get the heck out of the way.1
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It depends on what time of the day it is - if it's early, the human race hasn't had as much time to annoy me, so I'd likely sacrifice the one to save the many... but if it's later in the day, I'm probably trying to figure a way to kill them all and make it look like an accident.2
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Does anyone else want to kidnap this big man from the second example, put him on display, and hog all the money made from the opportunity to see "the man big enough to stop a trolley". I feel like he would have to be a BIG man.3
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Does anyone else want to kidnap this big man from the second example, put him on display, and hog all the money made from the opportunity to see "the man big enough to stop a trolley". I feel like he would have to be a BIG man.
I think when I originally heard this the Big Man would only derail the empty runaway trolley.0 -
MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »andreascjonsson wrote: »MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »andreascjonsson wrote: »The dude from Vsouce actually did a live test with this. They tried with 7 people and 5 frooze or waited for someone else to take responsibility (even when there were noone else around), while 2 people actually took action and saved all but 1. Mind field S2E1
Its free to watch on youtube
Mind field is free now? I thought it was only on Youtube Red?
It is on youtube red but the first episode for both seasons are free to watch
Oh I didn't realize this!
"Hey Vsauce! Michael here"
ETA: I'm just super excited because my curiosity box is coming today
Oh ive been thinking of getting those but i live in sweden so they would take forever to actually arrive,if they even ship here. Is the quality of the items good? I have watched the entirety of mind field on an ehmm "alternative site"
sorry for OT0 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Couldn’t I scream to get their attention and save them all?
It's been a while since I've heard this, but I think it was important to remove as many variables as possible. So you only have those two options and you have no knowledge about the people (gender, age, etc.)
So if I don't know the workers (able bodied, should be aware of trolley schedule and dangers of being on tracks) and can't shout for them to move it is only how many people do you feel comfortable being responsible for dying. The answer is the least amount so I would choose to doom one person in each case.
But it makes no sense to me.
Why is there a trolley speeding down tracks that are being repaired and the crew does not know and I can not get their attention? I don't think that is how things work. Why am I by a switch to control the trolley? There are no trolleys where I live. Crazy.
If someone is big enough to stop a trolley by being pushed in front of it how could I push them off the bridge at exactly the right moment? Wouldn't they object or at least be hard for me to shift fast enough? The trolley is coming so fast the workers can't jump out of the way after all. Would I even think that a person's body could stop a trolley? I don't think my brain works like that.
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Does anyone else want to kidnap this big man from the second example, put him on display, and hog all the money made from the opportunity to see "the man big enough to stop a trolley". I feel like he would have to be a BIG man.
I think when I originally heard this the Big Man would only derail the empty runaway trolley.
I don't know much about trolleys, but I am thinking it still weighs alot empty1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Couldn’t I scream to get their attention and save them all?
It's been a while since I've heard this, but I think it was important to remove as many variables as possible. So you only have those two options and you have no knowledge about the people (gender, age, etc.)
So if I don't know the workers (able bodied, should be aware of trolley schedule and dangers of being on tracks) and can't shout for them to move it is only how many people do you feel comfortable being responsible for dying. The answer is the least amount so I would choose to doom one person in each case.
But it makes no sense to me.
Why is there a trolley speeding down tracks that are being repaired and the crew does not know and I can not get their attention? I don't think that is how things work. Why am I by a switch to control the trolley? There are no trolleys where I live. Crazy.
If someone is big enough to stop a trolley by being pushed in front of it how could I push them off the bridge at exactly the right moment? Wouldn't they object or at least be hard for me to shift fast enough? The trolley is coming so fast the workers can't jump out of the way after all. Would I even think that a person's body could stop a trolley? I don't think my brain works like that.
LOL. I don't know. I didn't design the scenario, Socrates. So many questions.
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Couldn’t I scream to get their attention and save them all?
It's been a while since I've heard this, but I think it was important to remove as many variables as possible. So you only have those two options and you have no knowledge about the people (gender, age, etc.)
So if I don't know the workers (able bodied, should be aware of trolley schedule and dangers of being on tracks) and can't shout for them to move it is only how many people do you feel comfortable being responsible for dying. The answer is the least amount so I would choose to doom one person in each case.
But it makes no sense to me.
Why is there a trolley speeding down tracks that are being repaired and the crew does not know and I can not get their attention? I don't think that is how things work. Why am I by a switch to control the trolley? There are no trolleys where I live. Crazy.
If someone is big enough to stop a trolley by being pushed in front of it how could I push them off the bridge at exactly the right moment? Wouldn't they object or at least be hard for me to shift fast enough? The trolley is coming so fast the workers can't jump out of the way after all. Would I even think that a person's body could stop a trolley? I don't think my brain works like that.
LOL. I don't know. I didn't design the scenario, Socrates. So many questions.
but you posted it, it's yours now, you make the rules1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »SabotageinStilettos wrote: »Couldn’t I scream to get their attention and save them all?
It's been a while since I've heard this, but I think it was important to remove as many variables as possible. So you only have those two options and you have no knowledge about the people (gender, age, etc.)
So if I don't know the workers (able bodied, should be aware of trolley schedule and dangers of being on tracks) and can't shout for them to move it is only how many people do you feel comfortable being responsible for dying. The answer is the least amount so I would choose to doom one person in each case.
But it makes no sense to me.
Why is there a trolley speeding down tracks that are being repaired and the crew does not know and I can not get their attention? I don't think that is how things work. Why am I by a switch to control the trolley? There are no trolleys where I live. Crazy.
If someone is big enough to stop a trolley by being pushed in front of it how could I push them off the bridge at exactly the right moment? Wouldn't they object or at least be hard for me to shift fast enough? The trolley is coming so fast the workers can't jump out of the way after all. Would I even think that a person's body could stop a trolley? I don't think my brain works like that.
Just watch mind field S2E1 were they actually do this experiment1 -
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Does anyone else want to kidnap this big man from the second example, put him on display, and hog all the money made from the opportunity to see "the man big enough to stop a trolley". I feel like he would have to be a BIG man.
I think when I originally heard this the Big Man would only derail the empty runaway trolley.
I don't know much about trolleys, but I am thinking it still weighs alot empty
Assuming a 15000lb trolley moving at 15mph a required stopping distance of 300 yards and an assumed kinetic coefficient of friction of 0.68. I'm coming up with a 184 pound man.
https://ask.metafilter.com/225991/How-fat-DOES-a-man-have-to-be-to-stop-a-runaway-trolley1 -
Seriously it's really hard to know what I would do. I always thought that if I were in a fire situation or a car accident that I would panic and not be able to react and when I was actually in both situations I reacted without any panic whatsoever and did what needed to be done.
I think almost everyone if given only the two options would choose to end one life over five or choose to do nothing and let fate take its course.
There's no way to really know what you would do until that very second when you have to choose.1 -
MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »I remember hearing this in college. Basically you choose to actively take one life, or passively take 5. I have also heard some dark variations of this, for example, to the people who would choose to sacrifice one life for the good of the many, what if the one person was your child and the other 5 were strangers? Many people change their answer (obviously).
Call me cold, but I'd do nothing. 5 people would die, but I wouldn't have actively decided that those 5 people's lives were more important than the one.
Exactly what I think!!
Not up to me to decide that one person should be "sacrificed" for a "greater good", every life is just as important as the next4 -
MeeseeksAndDestroy wrote: »I remember hearing this in college. Basically you choose to actively take one life, or passively take 5. I have also heard some dark variations of this, for example, to the people who would choose to sacrifice one life for the good of the many, what if the one person was your child and the other 5 were strangers? Many people change their answer (obviously).
Call me cold, but I'd do nothing. 5 people would die, but I wouldn't have actively decided that those 5 people's lives were more important than the one.
Exactly what I think!!
Not up to me to decide that one person should be "sacrificed" for a "greater good", every life is just as important as the next
Not exactly equal, but I feel really bad for the armed deputy at the school in Florida. He was, arguably, in a position to do something for the greater good, but chose inaction. No judgment from me, though. I don't know what was going on in his mind or in his life.0
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