Low protein diet to reduce hanging skin?

kpk54

goldthistime wrote: »

kpk54 wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.

This post got wooed. Is this woo for Dr Fung (which I would agree with) or for finding Longo's work interesting? If it's for Valter Longo, I'd be happy to digress into the IGF/longevity thing. It's been on my mind a lot lately.

I am perplexed by the Longo's advice to crossover at age 65 to higher protein levels. Firstly, I think it takes away from the strength of his argument that low protein in your 40s and 50s leads to a longer life, and secondly, even if I were to believe it without question, surely I don't switch over on my 65th birthday. Not to mention that I wonder how much strength and vigour (as well as ease in maintaining a lower weight), I'm willing to sacrifice for 5 or 10 lingering years of life?

As the poster who originated the post with the "woo" clicks, I'm guessing they came about merely due to the mention of Fung.

As indicated previously, I'm neutral. I'm neither pro nor con regarding fasting (Fung's current emphasis) though I have listened to many of Fung's videos and visited his site. Personally, I've not fasted except when required prior to a routine medical procedure. Likewise, I have regularly listened to videos and visited the sites of Lyle McDonald and Layne Norton though I am not personally engaged in body building or recomping. Just yesterday, a video notification regarding protein from Layne Norton popped up on my screen and I listened to it. Heck, I've listened to stuff by Rich Roll, a vegan, though am not vegan or vegetarian. In regards to Londo, I will be 65 next year but have no plans to auto-increase my protein intake at that age, just as I currently don't follow his suggestions of low protein. Now or years previous. I don't recall his specific reasons. his research is just something I came across that made me say "Hmmmm....".

I simply find health related research fascinating. The clicks on "woo" were due to the mention of Fung, IMO. Fung is a nephrologist which might explain his foundation in low protein since current mainstream medical advice is to limit protein if one has Chronic Kidney Disease. I'm planted fairly firmly in moderation of all things for the masses though intrigued by the disparities of research in all realms of health and wellness.

Maxxitt

goldthistime wrote: »

kpk54 wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet that the article is by Dr. Jason Fung. He tends to not be well thought of by many from what I read in the forums. He's very keen on fasting. I have no opinion really. I do find Rosedale's and Longo's research interesting.

This post got wooed. Is this woo for Dr Fung (which I would agree with) or for finding Longo's work interesting? If it's for Valter Longo, I'd be happy to digress into the IGF/longevity thing. It's been on my mind a lot lately.

I am perplexed by the Longo's advice to crossover at age 65 to higher protein levels. Firstly, I think it takes away from the strength of his argument that low protein in your 40s and 50s leads to a longer life, and secondly, even if I were to believe it without question, surely I don't switch over on my 65th birthday. Not to mention that I wonder how much strength and vigour (as well as ease in maintaining a lower weight), I'm willing to sacrifice for 5 or 10 lingering years of life?

"One of the major threats to living independently is the loss of muscle mass, strength, and function that progressively occurs with aging, known as sarcopenia. Several studies have identified protein (especially the essential amino acids) as a key nutrient for muscle health in elderly adults. Elderly adults are less responsive to the anabolic stimulus of low doses of amino acid intake compared to younger individuals. However, this lack of responsiveness in elderly adults can be overcome with higher levels of protein (or essential amino acid) consumption. The requirement for a larger dose of protein to generate responses in elderly adults similar to the responses in younger adults provides the support for a beneficial effect of increased protein in older populations."

For a review, see here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924200/

Stoshew71

I was thinking. The reason you have hanging skin is because you stretched it out from gaining fat mass, then you sucked all of the fat out on your weight loss journey. Why not replace that sucking of fat by adding muscle mass to fill it back in. That would require adding protein, not lowering protein. And strength training helps too.

MommyMeggo

goldthistime wrote: »

Read in a blog or pseudo-sciency article recently that you should REDUCE your protein intake while on a diet so that your body will cannibalize extra skin. The photo that accompanied it was of a man who had lost weight, had good muscle development but lots of extra skin. I dismissed it as nonsense initially but later started thinking that the connection between muscle loss and protein intake is unequivocal--skin contains protein, is it really that impossible that a lower protein diet would lead to less hanging skin?

I went back to find the blurb but couldn't find it (you're not missing much). Then I went looking for studies on the topic and couldn't find anyway. All I found was another opinion piece that suggested adequate protein was necessary for skin's elasticity (so the opposite conclusion).

Has anyone come across reliable information on the relationship between protein consumption and excess skin while dieting?

Id prefer my body to not cannibalize itself. Oy.
If it does, it cannibalizes muscle from a lack of macros. Golly gee people actually read this stuff and think "hey that sounds about right! - "my body will just eat up its own excess skin!" ?

lemurcat12

goldthistime wrote: »

vanmep wrote: »

I really know nothing about this. But I wonder, if you can’t direct which fat you want to burn, how would you be able to direct your body to burn up your excess skin rather than muscle or organs?

IF there were ever evidence to support lower protein consumption to reduce hanging skin, I would have to assume that people would be instructed to maintain a high enough level to protect their organs.

Let's get specific. SAD is said to be 15% protein. Bodybuilders and dieters are generally encouraged to have much more, at least 20 or 30%. But there are definitely proponents of 10% protein. Valter Longo is one of those proponents (but in his case he argues for low protein for longevity vs the skin thing). I tried looking for criticisms of Longo and didn't find much. Surely he would meet a lot of opposition if 10% wasn't enough to protect your organs.

Percentages are not that helpful when talking both about people at a deficit and not.

If Longo (who I also find interesting) is talking about at maintenance, my maintenance when somewhat (not super) active is 2000, so 10% would be 50 g of protein, or roughly .9 g per kg -- above the RDA. I think that amount is not ideal to preserve muscle as one ages or build muscle, but at maintenance is obviously fine and I do believe there may even be longevity benefits (my mind is not made up on that but I'd consider it).

At a deficit, though -- let's say aiming for 1.5 lb/week, the same person might be eating 1250. 10% of 1250 is only 31 g of protein, which is super low. Specifically, it's (for me) about .54 g per kg, which is well under the RDA.

And that's without considering a few other things, one of which is that at a deficit you probably need more than the RDA just to make sure you are hitting all amino acids adequately on a more limited diet (ESPECIALLY something like 1250, and especially if mostly plant-based). Another is that the risk to muscle is much higher when at a deficit, which is another reason more than RDA is recommended during weight loss (and especially if also exercising a good bit). I'd add to that that if one is older and/or female, it's easier to lose and harder to maintain muscle.

I do think it's possible that less protein at maintenance is reasonable (which is different than the skin benefits question, of course), and also that it makes sense to increase as one gets older and the risk of muscle loss is higher (but I'd wonder if maybe the desirability of more protein kicks in sooner for women, for whom the risk of muscle loss in increased).

It's extremely important to me to do everything I can to be as strong as possible as an aged person, so that's why I tend to err on the side of more protein anyway (not extreme, but around a min of .65 g/lb of a healthy weight if losing, a bit less if at maintenance -- for me I think 70-80 g is fine at maintenance (I'd aim higher if losing, personally), and at 2000 calories that would be 15%.