Flat bench vs multi gym?

kazane1
kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
Hi all I was just wondering what is better to use given the choice.. flat bench press vs sitting up on a multi gym and using that chest press. Lying on a bench doing dumbbell flyes or sitting on a multi gym machine and doing the butterfly press? And overall what are your opinions on what piece of equipment is better the multi gym machines or the weights bench.
Thanks all
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Replies

  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    1. This probably should be in a different board, Suggest you flag it and requests the mods move it.

    IN general, unless there's a reason to isolate a particular range of motion, the greater the possible range of motion, the better(for strength building) So, from worst to best

    Static machines with cable/plates---Mostly because the plate/load is proprietary and two "identical" machines from different manufacturers can have different resistance with the same load
    Smith/hammer style machines
    Cable machines
    Barbell work
    Dumbell/KBell work

    That being said, Dumbbells/KBells aren't necessarily appropriate or available in certain weights or for certain exercises.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    1. This probably should be in a different board, Suggest you flag it and requests the mods move it.

    IN general, unless there's a reason to isolate a particular range of motion, the greater the possible range of motion, the better(for strength building) So, from worst to best

    Static machines with cable/plates---Mostly because the plate/load is proprietary and two "identical" machines from different manufacturers can have different resistance with the same load
    Smith/hammer style machines
    Cable machines
    Barbell work
    Dumbell/KBell work

    That being said, Dumbbells/KBells aren't necessarily appropriate or available in certain weights or for certain exercises.

    Ahh okay then thanks, I not sure how to flag the post other wise I would, what topic should it be posted under?
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    edited February 2018
    Probably should be in Fitness and exercise. Recipes is really a food related subforum.

    Flag/Report should be the leftmost option underneath the Post, depending on what platform you're on
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    All done thank you for the advice!
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,208 Member
    Machines that provide support generally isolate the target muscles better than freeweights, and less of your energy is spent on non-target muscles to stabilize the movement. That's a benefit if your goal is to bulk up, but it's a drawback if your goal is overall fitness, where muscle groups need to work together as a team.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    If you're doing PHUL and it says to bench, then bench. These are the types of substitutions that made me originally suggest that you choose a beginner program.

    ^^^^^
    This.
    Do the exercises as written on the program you are following.



    I have a home gym, so the majority of my exercises are BB or DB, since I don't have machines available. I get just as good of a workout doing this as when I had machines available at a public gym. Even then, I did BB and DB exercises the majority of the time.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    I power lift so I'm going to say bench press accompanied by a squat rack. If you want to build raw power
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    If you're doing PHUL and it says to bench, then bench. These are the types of substitutions that made me originally suggest that you choose a beginner program.

    Thanks for the advice I’m doing PHAT but it’s just that some days when I can’t get to the gym I only have access to a multi gym. But I’ll make sure to stick to the original exercises then thanks
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Thanks all!
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    You're not doing the entirety of PHAT are You? That program wasn't designed with natural lifters in mind and it has almost 3x the volume a natural lifter should do.

    PHUL would be a better choice honestly.
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    jessef593 wrote: »
    You're not doing the entirety of PHAT are You? That program wasn't designed with natural lifters in mind and it has almost 3x the volume a natural lifter should do.

    PHUL would be a better choice honestly.

    Better for the OP would actually be a beginner program, but whatever LOL
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Okay i'll have to look into PHUL then thank you.
    To be honest I'm even find this PHAT routine a bit too easy for my liking. I want a programme that's challenging and makes me feel like I have actually worked my body, I don't really feel this with the PHAT routine so far but I'm only on the first week of it and I have one more day to do tomorrow before I can judge it I think.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    @Davidsdottir I would much rather try an intermediate programme because I have been lifting for about a year and a half now, I'm not that smart when it comes down to programmes and the knowledge of weight training in general but I can lift and I am used to a lot of different types of exercises and I do like to push myself and to learn new things.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Okay i'll have to look into PHUL then thank you.
    To be honest I'm even find this PHAT routine a bit too easy for my liking. I want a programme that's challenging and makes me feel like I have actually worked my body, I don't really feel this with the PHAT routine so far but I'm only on the first week of it and I have one more day to do tomorrow before I can judge it I think.

    Really? I think PHAT has a lot of volume. If you want even more, with heavier squat/bench/deads you can try PH3 designed by Layne too. There are excel spreadsheets out there for it so you can enter in your maxes and get the whole program laid out for you.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    If PHAT isn't enough for you, you won't like PHUL. I call that the baby phat
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    edited March 2018
    ahh right lol, when i finish the PHAT workouts i just feel that i could of done more and could of worked the muscles a bit better. but i am coming from being used to doing the classic split training and im not really used to full body workouts so maybe the full body workouts are just a bit easier on the muscles then the split training was, because when i was doing split training i was really working like just chest to the fullest then just arms to the fullest and with this PHAT thats more of a full body workout so I'm working a lot more then one muscle to the fullest each time?
    What would you reccommend then to stick with this PHAT workout?
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    Then you're not lifting heavy enough.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    ahh right lol, when i finish the PHAT workouts i just feel that i could of done more and could of worked the muscles a bit better. but i am coming from being used to doing the classic split training and im not really used to full body workouts so maybe the full body workouts are just a bit easier on the muscles then the split training was, because when i was doing split training i was really working like just chest to the fullest then just arms to the fullest and with this PHAT thats more of a full body workout so I'm working a lot more then one muscle to the fullest each time?
    What would you reccommend then to stick with this PHAT workout?

    You're working every muscle at least 2x a week with this program though. You're doing twice the frequency as you would with a body part split, you don't need to be murdering every muscle every single day.

    What are you doing on the days you use the multi gym? Trying to sub machine exercises for compounds isn't going to give you the same workout, which is what it sounds like you have done this week.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    ahh right lol, when i finish the PHAT workouts i just feel that i could of done more and could of worked the muscles a bit better. but i am coming from being used to doing the classic split training and im not really used to full body workouts so maybe the full body workouts are just a bit easier on the muscles then the split training was, because when i was doing split training i was really working like just chest to the fullest then just arms to the fullest and with this PHAT thats more of a full body workout so I'm working a lot more then one muscle to the fullest each time?
    What would you reccommend then to stick with this PHAT workout?

    PHAT is not fully body. They're still upper and lower splits. You are in charge of tracking your own progressive overload. You don't want to be going to failure this week, if that means it will fatigue you to the point you can't add a rep/set/or weight next week. You're also getting more frequency on body parts with this program and doing a split that only incorporates hitting a muscle group once per week.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    noo i have just stuck to the workout plan this week i haven't used machines this week and i will make sure that i wont use them either.
    Here's a list of how i have constructed this plan to suit myself because i'm not able to do some of the original exercises because of equipment and things.
    I will write down just the exercises that i have changed and could you please let me know if they are adequate alternatives?
    Thanks.

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    Day 7 - Rest.


  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Then you're not lifting heavy enough.

    I was going to up all the weight next week so ill see how that goes, thank you.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    noo i have just stuck to the workout plan this week i haven't used machines this week and i will make sure that i wont use them either.
    Here's a list of how i have constructed this plan to suit myself because i'm not able to do some of the original exercises because of equipment and things.
    I will write down just the exercises that i have changed and could you please let me know if they are adequate alternatives?
    Thanks.

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    Day 7 - Rest.


    This is not the program. Where are the rack pulls/pull ups? curls, barbell rows, hamstrings and calves completely missing. Dude. No wonder you don't feel its enough. I wouldn't

    Unless it's all on Day 2 where you said no changes. Still the second leg day is not right.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    bbell1985 wrote: »
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Okay i'll have to look into PHUL then thank you.
    To be honest I'm even find this PHAT routine a bit too easy for my liking. I want a programme that's challenging and makes me feel like I have actually worked my body, I don't really feel this with the PHAT routine so far but I'm only on the first week of it and I have one more day to do tomorrow before I can judge it I think.

    Really? I think PHAT has a lot of volume. If you want even more, with heavier squat/bench/deads you can try PH3 designed by Layne too. There are excel spreadsheets out there for it so you can enter in your maxes and get the whole program laid out for you.

    Okay I'm going to try up all the weight for this PHAT workout next week and see how that goes and if i feel i need more of a challenge ill look more into the PH3 one i have looked at the PH3 one briefly but it looked VERY challenging lol.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    bbell1985 wrote: »
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Okay i'll have to look into PHUL then thank you.
    To be honest I'm even find this PHAT routine a bit too easy for my liking. I want a programme that's challenging and makes me feel like I have actually worked my body, I don't really feel this with the PHAT routine so far but I'm only on the first week of it and I have one more day to do tomorrow before I can judge it I think.

    Really? I think PHAT has a lot of volume. If you want even more, with heavier squat/bench/deads you can try PH3 designed by Layne too. There are excel spreadsheets out there for it so you can enter in your maxes and get the whole program laid out for you.

    Okay I'm going to try up all the weight for this PHAT workout next week and see how that goes and if i feel i need more of a challenge ill look more into the PH3 one i have looked at the PH3 one briefly but it looked VERY challenging lol.

    PH3 is a beast. It's all the volume of PHAT with a complete powerlifting DUP in addition lol. I've been doing that plus added glute work for a couple months now.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    PHAT Workout
    Day 1: Upper Body Strength Day
    Pulling Power Movement: Bent-over rows 3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups 4 sets of 6-10 reps
    Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses 3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips 2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses 3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls 3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers 3 sets of 6-10 reps

    Day 2: Lower Body Strength Day
    Pressing Power Movement: Squats 3 sets of 3-5 reps
    Assistance pressing movement: Leg Presses 2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions 2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Assistance pulling movement: Stiff Legged Dead-lifts 3 sets of 5-8 reps
    Assistance pulling/curling movement: Lying Leg Curls 2 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary calf movement: Standing Calf Raise 3 sets of 6-10 reps
    Auxiliary calf movement: Seated Calf Raise 2 sets of 6-10 reps

    Day 3: Rest

    Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day
    Pulling Power Exercise: Bent-over rows 4 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Weighted Pull-ups 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or Shrugs 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pull downs 2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables 3 sets of 12-20 reps

    Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day
    Lower Body Power Exercise: Squats 4 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Lunges 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions 3 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy pulling movement: Stiff Legged dead lifts 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls 2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy calf movement: Standing calf raises 4 sets of 10-15 reps
    Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises 3 sets of 15-20 reps

    Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day
    Pressing Power Exercise: Flat dumbbell presses 4 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press 3 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flies 2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls 2 sets of 15-20 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated triceps extensions 3 sets of 8-12 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable press downs with rope 2 sets of 12-15 reps
    Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks 2 sets of 15-20 reps

    Day 7: Rest (Don’t forget to rest!)
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    I assume he means these are the only exercises he subbed?

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    ^ This is probably a fine sub.

    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).

    ^Probably fine.

    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    ^ Not even close to being the same intensity as a leg press. No.

    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    ^ I would say also no to these.
    A machine press is not the same as a barbell press. Cable movements are not the same as free weight movements.
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    I assume he means these are the only exercises he subbed?

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    ^ This is probably a fine sub.

    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).

    ^Probably fine.

    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    ^ Not even close to being the same intensity as a leg press. No.

    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    ^ I would say also no to these.
    A machine press is not the same as a barbell press. Cable movements are not the same as free weight movements.

    Oh word, sorry. I'm on this at work lol.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    bbell1985 wrote: »
    I assume he means these are the only exercises he subbed?

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    ^ This is probably a fine sub.

    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).

    ^Probably fine.

    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    ^ Not even close to being the same intensity as a leg press. No.

    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    ^ I would say also no to these.
    A machine press is not the same as a barbell press. Cable movements are not the same as free weight movements.

    Oh word, sorry. I'm on this at work lol.

    Wait, the cable movements are actually what is programmed and he swapped them for freeweights. My bad. I had that backwards.

    In that case, DB step ups are probably the only abomination here. But something is still not adding up if he things this is easy....
  • bbell1985
    bbell1985 Posts: 4,571 Member
    bbell1985 wrote: »
    I assume he means these are the only exercises he subbed?

    Day 1 - (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).
    ^ This is probably a fine sub.

    Day 2 - No changes.
    Day 3 -Rest.
    Day 4 - (Seated cable rows - T-bar row), (Seated dumbbell press - Standing military press).

    ^Probably fine.

    Day 5 - (Leg press - Dumbbell step ups).
    ^ Not even close to being the same intensity as a leg press. No.

    Day 6 - (Hammer strength chest press - Bench press), (Incline cable flyes - lying dumbbell flyes), Cable kick backs - Skull crushers).
    ^ I would say also no to these.
    A machine press is not the same as a barbell press. Cable movements are not the same as free weight movements.

    Oh word, sorry. I'm on this at work lol.

    Wait, the cable movements are actually what is programmed and he swapped them for freeweights. My bad. I had that backwards.

    In that case, DB step ups are probably the only abomination here. But something is still not adding up if he things this is easy....

    Right.

    So OP it's going been a week, right? Add a rep/set/weight here and there next week and the week after. Hit us up in 4 weeks.

    This program made my legs.
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