Flat bench vs multi gym?

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Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,438 MFP Moderator
    kazane1 wrote: »
    bbell1985 wrote: »
    Not to be totally random but I was thinking about something @usmcmp said about just LIFTING and working hard and not overthinking.

    The best I've ever looked was running PHAT and PH3 while injured. I just worked so hard. I gained weight but my body changed so much. For me some of the gain was a bit too shocking, but those were true gains for the first time in my lifting experience.

    Yeah I do think that I maybe stuck at the the whole analysis paralysis stage thinking that there is a perfect programme to follow that suites everyone but after hearing what everyone has to say it has really helped to give me perspective and to just do exactly that.. LIFT and work hard and to stop overthinking :)

    Exactly. Any program is better than no program, and any program is better than switching programs every week. Pick a program and stick with it for awhile. If you want the best results Pick a program that is designed by an experience lifter that has the moves where you have equipment that you have access to. Even with I did PHAT, I had to change 2 or 3 moves, because of the type of equipment at my gym.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,438 MFP Moderator
    kazane1 wrote: »
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!

    No one is going to track what you do. If you prefer barbell, go for it.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited March 2018
    psuLemon wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Then you're not lifting heavy enough.

    Actually no. It can be more beneficial for strength progression and even hypertrophy to lift at submaximal loads. That's why so many programs have you work between the 65-85% range.

    Same for hypertrophic responses. You normally want to train to an RPE of 7-8 and only occasionally go to fairly to prevent over taxing your CNS

    You need to train specifically for neural firing in the fastest time against maximal load. This can only be done with low rep training. This is why you periodize from hypertrophy to volume to strength in most programs. Not everyone is doing RPE either so I don't think most people would understand the 7-8 numbers but RPE is a good system of training for more advanced lifters.

    I've never run a powerlifting program in over 20 years that didn't do a lot of 5 and lower rep range work, but a lot of sets to up the volume. I've been doing 531 for 3 years now as well.

    I'm curious, you mention a powerlifting comp, what program are you running? RPE?

    Submaximal meaning less than 90%. It's hard to become efficient at a lift if every rep you're having to grind it out.

    But I know exactly what you're saying and am not attempting to contradict you.

    Did I mention that in this thread? I'm running the most recent Boris Sheiko periodization Intermediate program. Very enjoyable program.

    Well nobody should ever pound out a 1RM very often so very true. My work range is normally 80-95% depending on the training week. I only do a 1RM about once every 6 weeks.

    I didn't see it before if you did but I've heard a lot of adjectives used to describe Seiko but I don't think I've heard enjoyable before lol.

    What is interesting, almost all the programs I have seen and followed maintain loads at 65 to 85% of 1RM. I rarely see any program designed to be at 90% or more of 1RM often.

    95% is 3 reps for me and 90% is 4 and there's a lot of programs that regularly work in those ranges. Now if you are thinking 95% is 2 then you are correct, most programs would avoid doing ultra low (singles and doubles) very often. Also, it depends on the lift, you will do lower reps on primary movements often but assistance lifts are often done for hypertrophy and volume. But 65-75 seems very low for powerlifting to spend a lot of time on for primary lifts as those are 10-12 rep ranges and don't really help with 1RM.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    kazane1 wrote: »
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!

    No one is going to track what you do. If you prefer barbell, go for it.

    thank you!
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!

    I would still suggest using dumbbells at least every other week. Dumbbells require your muscles work harder to stabilize through the entire range of motion. This helps recruit the muscles differently than using a barbell. As has been said, these programs are built the way they are for a reason.
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,488 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    kazane1 wrote: »
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!

    I would still suggest using dumbbells at least every other week. Dumbbells require your muscles work harder to stabilize through the entire range of motion. This helps recruit the muscles differently than using a barbell. As has been said, these programs are built the way they are for a reason.

    ^^^^This is what I was thinking, plus using the dumbbells helps with strengthening your weaker side, we nearly all have one.

    Cheers, h.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    jessef593 wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Then you're not lifting heavy enough.

    Actually no. It can be more beneficial for strength progression and even hypertrophy to lift at submaximal loads. That's why so many programs have you work between the 65-85% range.

    Same for hypertrophic responses. You normally want to train to an RPE of 7-8 and only occasionally go to fairly to prevent over taxing your CNS

    You need to train specifically for neural firing in the fastest time against maximal load. This can only be done with low rep training. This is why you periodize from hypertrophy to volume to strength in most programs. Not everyone is doing RPE either so I don't think most people would understand the 7-8 numbers but RPE is a good system of training for more advanced lifters.

    I've never run a powerlifting program in over 20 years that didn't do a lot of 5 and lower rep range work, but a lot of sets to up the volume. I've been doing 531 for 3 years now as well.

    I'm curious, you mention a powerlifting comp, what program are you running? RPE?

    Submaximal meaning less than 90%. It's hard to become efficient at a lift if every rep you're having to grind it out.

    But I know exactly what you're saying and am not attempting to contradict you.

    Did I mention that in this thread? I'm running the most recent Boris Sheiko periodization Intermediate program. Very enjoyable program.

    Well nobody should ever pound out a 1RM very often so very true. My work range is normally 80-95% depending on the training week. I only do a 1RM about once every 6 weeks.

    I didn't see it before if you did but I've heard a lot of adjectives used to describe Seiko but I don't think I've heard enjoyable before lol.

    Yeah I plan to retest this up coming week just because my bench and deadlift percentages have just felt too light. Squats are ruining me though.

    Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I have cursed his name a couple of times especially on the deadlift variation movements.

    Enjoyable in the sense that I'm actually progressing again haha.


    Well I stand corrected in regards to Mr Norton. I had just on several accounts been Informed me wasn't natural. I will have to look into that again
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    kazane1 wrote: »
    One thing i have noticed with this programme though is that it only does does barbell bench press once and that's during the chest and arms hypertrophy day, and on the upper body power day it does dumbell bench press and i personally prefer doing the barbell bench press i find i can lift heavier doing the barbell bench press which is what's needed for the upper body power day anyway.. so do you think i could swap the dumbell bench press on the upper body power day for the barbell bench press instead and then still do the bench press on the chest and arms hypertrophy day also ? or should I just leave it and carry on doing the dumbbell bench press on the upper body power day and just put up with it?
    Thank you!

    I would still suggest using dumbbells at least every other week. Dumbbells require your muscles work harder to stabilize through the entire range of motion. This helps recruit the muscles differently than using a barbell. As has been said, these programs are built the way they are for a reason.

    @usmcmp the dumbbell bench press and the dumbbell incline bench press are involved in the plan on the "chest and arms hypertrophy" days would this be involved in the plan enough and make it okay to switch it round to the barbell bench press for the upper body power day? or like you said should I stick to the dumbbell bench press on the power day regardless ?
    Thank you
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    What Can I replace the leg press with as I don’t have access to a leg press machine.. I originally replaced it with dumbbell step ups but I know that this doesn’t do as a good replacement at all.
    Any suggestions?
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    What Can I replace the leg press with as I don’t have access to a leg press machine.. I originally replaced it with dumbbell step ups but I know that this doesn’t do as a good replacement at all.
    Any suggestions?

    Are you doing squats? If you are then do front squats for leg press.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Yeahh I’m doing squats and hack squats currently. But okay then that’s great thank you I will add in front squats instead of leg press. Do front squats work different muscles compared to normal squats?
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Yeahh I’m doing squats and hack squats currently. But okay then that’s great thank you I will add in front squats instead of leg press. Do front squats work different muscles compared to normal squats?

    FS are more quad dominant and work the core more. They don't engage the rear chain nearly as much as squats.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Ahh okay then that’s great thanks for the advice imma incorporate that into my routine instead of the leg press that I replaced with dumbbell step ups.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Because this exercise is on day five of the PHAT workout and it is on the “lower body hypertrophy day” the leg press said 2 sets of 12-15 reps what do you think I should be doing for the front squat in its place? 2 sets of 8 reps?
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Because this exercise is on day five of the PHAT workout and it is on the “lower body hypertrophy day” the leg press said 2 sets of 12-15 reps what do you think I should be doing for the front squat in its place? 2 sets of 8 reps?

    2 sets of 12-15.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Because this exercise is on day five of the PHAT workout and it is on the “lower body hypertrophy day” the leg press said 2 sets of 12-15 reps what do you think I should be doing for the front squat in its place? 2 sets of 8 reps?

    2 sets of 12-15.

    Thanks!
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    So.. I tired front squats today and I just can’t get on with them they really hurt my wrists when trying to perform them and it’s hard to keep the bar on the front of my shoulders too.. in this workout do you think it would be okay to replace the leg press with just ordinary squats even though this workout starts with squats would it be okay to just add in squats again to this routine ?
  • karsei01
    karsei01 Posts: 442 Member
    Stick to front squats, get used to them. Try different grips. Itæ's not comfy on shoulders, but deads are not comfy on hands either, so just man up, it gets better in short time.
  • karsei01
    karsei01 Posts: 442 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    Because this exercise is on day five of the PHAT workout and it is on the “lower body hypertrophy day” the leg press said 2 sets of 12-15 reps what do you think I should be doing for the front squat in its place? 2 sets of 8 reps?

    2 sets of 12-15.

    Best answer I've seen in a long time :D:D
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    So.. I tired front squats today and I just can’t get on with them they really hurt my wrists when trying to perform them and it’s hard to keep the bar on the front of my shoulders too.. in this workout do you think it would be okay to replace the leg press with just ordinary squats even though this workout starts with squats would it be okay to just add in squats again to this routine ?

    Start light, just the bar, and get used to them.

    Alternatively, choose a program where you don't need to make so many substitutions.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    karsei01 wrote: »
    Stick to front squats, get used to them. Try different grips. Itæ's not comfy on shoulders, but deads are not comfy on hands either, so just man up, it gets better in short time.

    Noted, thanks!
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    So.. I tired front squats today and I just can’t get on with them they really hurt my wrists when trying to perform them and it’s hard to keep the bar on the front of my shoulders too.. in this workout do you think it would be okay to replace the leg press with just ordinary squats even though this workout starts with squats would it be okay to just add in squats again to this routine ?

    Start light, just the bar, and get used to them.

    Alternatively, choose a program where you don't need to make so many substitutions.

    I will get used to them, do have never done them before now. Thanks!
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    At the moment I’m eating 3,089 calories and my maintenance level is 2,600 but my weight has plateaued.. again, do I just add another 250 calories into my maintenance? Thanks.
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
    kazane1 wrote: »
    At the moment I’m eating 3,089 calories and my maintenance level is 2,600 but my weight has plateaued.. again, do I just add another 250 calories into my maintenance? Thanks.

    How long have you plateaued? If a week, keep it the same. If two, add another 100 cals.
  • kazane1
    kazane1 Posts: 264 Member
    Yeahh it’s been 3 weeks now so I’ll up them again, thanks!
This discussion has been closed.