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Intermittent fasting- just an acceptable way of starving yourself?
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stevencloser wrote: »
An hour after, and an hour before, is perfectly achievable within that cycle5 -
I think you have it backwards about eating disorders, people who already have disordered eating problems may well not be best served by doing IF.
From the 5:2 web site the first category on the list of people who are advised not to do 5:2 is:
"People who are underweight or have an eating disorder"
https://thefastdiet.co.uk/michael-answers-frequently-asked-questions/
Interestingly to me, it also lists people "with a history of severe mental health problems" on that list, as seperate to history of eating disorders.
Depending on definition I would probably fit the criteria as having a history of severe mental health problems unrelated to eating disorders though, probably as part of my other issues, I have had problems with binge eating and difficulty around this. I do not do IF but I do gravitate towards it somewhat in that I will often not eat breakfast, have a very small lunch and then a big dinner and evening snacks as a way to manage my calories and also I have found this the most effective way to reduce my binge eating considerably to a level I would have previously thought impossible.
So it is interesting to me they would say proper IF is not recommended. Perhaps, having a history of other mental health issues I am at higher risk of eating disorder and this is why.3 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
An hour after, and an hour before, is perfectly achievable within that cycle
Which would be 10:14, not 8:16.9 -
I'm currently playing around with meal timing, but for a very specific purpose: due to circumstance my strength workouts are 12-1pm. I've been accommodating that and meals for a while, but it's been... unpleasant at times.
So, I'm trying to eat a light "meal" at about 10:30 just so I'm not either full or starving for my noon workout, then having lunch after. I typically stop eating after dinner as my body seems to like that. This all then turns into about a 15:9. Nothing disordered. Just responding to circumstance in a slightly different way. For years I at breakfast around 6am. I would then want lunch at 12. Can't do that. Don't want to "spend" more calories on a morning snack at the moment. So there we have it.5 -
stevencloser wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »
An hour after, and an hour before, is perfectly achievable within that cycle
Which would be 10:14, not 8:16.
Needn't be. Perfectly reasonable to eat at 8:16 and separate from sleep.
I acknowledge that assumes less than 8 hours sleep, but that's a rare luxury for most5 -
No it's a not a fad. What exactly do you think you are doing when you are sleeping? EVERYBODY fasts for around 8-12 hours naturally so how can it be a fad lol?
From my experience it's the best thing I do.- It regulates my appetite, I no longer feel the need to "binge" or pig out when I do eat.
- I can manage my calories easier and become more productive because of this. (I get a stupid amount of work done now because of not eating at certain times.
- My anxiety and depression has decreased.
- If you like having bigger meals, then it's awesome.
This is my experience from doing 16-22 hour fasts everyday.
It's not a cure all, it's a way of eating...simple as that. My wife has even started eating like this now and for the first time in years shes actually controlling her binging and ENJOYING food. If anything it actually helps people with "disorders".13 -
Fasting and starving are not the same....for one fasting is intentional, starvation is not. Also fasting is planned, starvation is not. Also, it's about the purpose. Also, with IF you don't cut calories, you simply cram those calories into a particular eating window.10
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Anything and everything can hide an eating disorder or have disordered patterns if the person who does it has a disordered mindset, from counting calories, to eating healthy, to exercising. When I skip meals or have low calorie days I don't do it to punish myself. I don't do it to restrict. I don't feel guilty about eating my calories when I've planned for a larger meal. If I'm not hungry or if I'm planning for a larger meal I skip breakfast, not to lose as fast as possible but because skipping a meal is sometimes worth it for my mental and social health. My overall calories average to a decent amount and my weight loss is slow and steady. My goal weight does not fall in the underweight range (in fact I'm planning to maintain slightly overweight). You get the idea.
I think every healthy person could benefit from skipping a meal every once in a while to see that being hungry sometimes is not the end of the world and learn not to panic if it happens. It's okay to not eat nonstop. I don't think a person who skips a meal is starving themselves. In fact many people skip meals out of habit and are overweight. Starving means undereating, and that can happen with one meal or 10 meals a day. It can happen by eating the same calories every day or having a couple of low calories days.
A couple of years ago when 5:2 was popular you would see several posts of people saying they eat 500 calories twice a week and then 1200 calories the rest of the week, and every single time they were told by people who have been around longer that this is undereating and that this isn't how intermittent fasting works. It's just an eating schedule to make your caloric budget more flexible. Some people misuse the tool to create too large of a caloric deficit, but that's on them not on the tool. They're either misinformed or have more serious issues with food.12 -
Thanks for your answers. I personally really like IF but I also had an eating disorder as a teenager and would have found being able to say 'I'm doing IF' a wonderful cover up. I take the point of those who are saying that IF done properly doesn't mean a greater restriction in calories and that those with a prior history of eating disorders should probably avoid this pattern of eating (I can see how it would be tempting to slowly reduce and reduce your eating window and before you know it, you're eating too few calories). I personally find it a useful tool to allow me to have a more exciting dinner whilst staying within calories and I don't particularly like (or have time for) breakfast.6
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If someone wants to disguise an eating disorder they will find a way to do it, if not IF then something else.8
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Grimmerick wrote: »If someone wants to disguise an eating disorder they will find a way to do it, if not IF then something else.
True.0 -
I’ve noticed a few people saying that they are combining different types of IF diet (doing 5:2 and 16:8 for example) or limiting their eating window to a very short time. I like IF but part of me is uneasy about the way it makes skipping meals acceptable. What we reckon? Is IF just a way of people disguising disordered eating as an acceptable diet?
I don't know anyone in person saying they eat IF. I know people who don't eat breakfast or snack but they don't call it anything.
People that post here saying they do IF mostly seem to understand they need to get enough calories per day/week.
I think someone with disordered eating will likely be attracted to things that lets them restrict food and meals severely. Like fasting, clean eating or being a low carb vegetarian, the banana diet or doing whole 30 repeatedly. You'd have to check in with the individual to see what they are really doing.2 -
I’ve noticed a few people saying that they are combining different types of IF diet (doing 5:2 and 16:8 for example) or limiting their eating window to a very short time. I like IF but part of me is uneasy about the way it makes skipping meals acceptable. What we reckon? Is IF just a way of people disguising disordered eating as an acceptable diet?
LOL No. Why is having 1 or 2 meals a day "skipping a meal"? Who decided we should have 3 (or more) meals a day?
And it's certainly not starving unless you choose it to be. My husband has eaten only one meal a day for the 30+ years I've known him and he's also been overweight all that time.6 -
I’ve noticed a few people saying that they are combining different types of IF diet (doing 5:2 and 16:8 for example) or limiting their eating window to a very short time. I like IF but part of me is uneasy about the way it makes skipping meals acceptable. What we reckon? Is IF just a way of people disguising disordered eating as an acceptable diet?
No...you can do IF and still hit your calories...there's nothing disordered about skipping meals.
I used to inadvertently do 16:8 because I never used to eat breakfast in the morning...I'd eat my dinner at 8:00-8:30 and then wouldn't eat lunch until 12:00...I definitely hit my calories and then some because I put on 40-50 Lbs over the course of about 8 years doing that.2 -
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this is unfortunately a common misconception.............we have been conditioned to eat breakfast since we were children............even in grade school I was not a huge breakfast eater but EVERYONE said breakfast was the most important meal of the day, you had to break your fast, blah blah blah..........I have had tremendous success with IF simply because when I do eat I eat until satisfied (2 meals, 800-1000 calories each). I eat my first meal at noon and the second meal at 7pm-8pm and I'm good. IF is not a magic bullet or an alternative to counting calories, it just allows for more calories when you do eat. It's been a life saver for me.6
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this is unfortunately a common misconception.............we have been conditioned to eat breakfast since we were children............even in grade school I was not a huge breakfast eater but EVERYONE said breakfast was the most important meal of the day, you had to break your fast, blah blah blah..........I have had tremendous success with IF simply because when I do eat I eat until satisfied (2 meals, 800-1000 calories each). I eat my first meal at noon and the second meal at 7pm-8pm and I'm good. IF is not a magic bullet or an alternative to counting calories, it just allows for more calories when you do eat. It's been a life saver for me.
See, I do make sure my grade 5 son eats breakfast. He has never been big on breakfast. He would prefer to play LEGO all morning every morning. But I have seen him go from happy, chirpy, morning person to blood sugar low, grumpy, can’t make a decision, crying emotional mess. This was well displayed while shopping for new running shoes one day and I ended up force feeding him grapes. Anyway, my older boys, I don’t mind if they skip breakfast or even lunch. They make up for it when they are hungry. My youngest will learn those cues better in the next few years and then I won’t be the mom harassing him to “just please have some yogurt or something”!!! Everyone has a kind of ingrained schedule it seems. As long as we are eating appropriately for our bodies and our lifestyles, it should not really matter to anyone else.
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My problem is I like breakfast, brunch, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner, and an evening snack! Once I start eating for the day, I usually don't stop tell bed time. I grew up very skinny and tried for many years to gain weight and maybe developed bad eating habits but I used to eat a lot and could not gain. Then my metabolism, activity, or something else changed and that resulted in weight gain.
Now I do IF to not get started so that by the end of the day, I'm not overeating. Simple as that. I went from 252 to 193 (CW) doing a 20:4 IF routine. I did not restrict calories in the evening and ate tell sated. That was very important for me for this WOE to be sustainable for me. I did count calories for a while and would put down 1800-2400 usually each evening so I wasn't starving. I counted then but didn't have a limit and ate as I pleased in the four hour eating window. I use a 16:8 routine for maintenance. I've kept it off doing this for 2.5-yrs now and am still slowly losing when I get the motivation up to go from 16:8 to 20:4. The 5:2 plan, I don't think would work very well for me. I would rather eat nothing than just 500kcals. The 500kcals would make me very hungry whereas the fasting acts somewhat as an appetite suppressant. I guess if I ate three meals on the 5 days maybe that would work but I like my current routine. I find a 16:8 IF routine extremely easy after doing a 20:4 for a long time.7 -
For me, fasting is too disruptive to my psyche. I eat regularly, meet my daily calorie count and exercise 4 days a week. Lost 18 lbs in 2.5 months and didn’t feel deprived. I’ve heard intermediate fasting works for many people, but if I’m getting the same results, I rather snack and enjoy some food throughout the day. Also health and fitness should never feel like a punishment. I never want to feel I’m in some fad routine either. Health and fitness is a pretty simple concept and time proven. Why complicate it!5
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