The Psychology of Endurance
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I'm not a runner any longer but used to run trails in Cincinnati. Harvey Lewis is a legend here. He's a teacher that just decided one day he wanted to run Bad Water and within around four years he won the race (Bad Water is known as the worst 135 mile race in the world).
His training videos, which used to be on YouTube (not sure if they are any longer) were incredible and just a testament to what someone will do (and get used to) when they want something badly enough. Most don't know this about Cincinnati but we have some HUGE hills here. They call them the seven hills. Some of our trails have really challenging elevations (Harvey has said some of the most challenging he's run). He would put on a Winter Jacket, in 80 degree heat and pull a tire up these hills. Up and down, over and over again. Even today, the guy runs everywhere he goes. He'll fly somewhere and run from the airport to where he's staying.
After he won Badwater, I believe the next day he ran the rim of the Grand Canyon (like 30/40 miles).
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I have a rowing buddy, right now, training for an assault on the WR half marathon (over 60) indoor row. I see his training daily (we compare training notes, etc). The things he's willing to do, quite frankly, I'm not willing to go there! I just think over time he's grown accustomed to the suck. He goes into dark places so often, I'm not sure how he stays healthy. I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days. Some can manage to do it every 2/3 days. Maybe that's training for years and years that allows that. I think that's the psychology that needs to be studied -- pushing yourself just as hard every single day as your body's limits can take. The day you get to the race, it should be predictable.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I know a few people who fit this description. They seem to relish the chance to endure a deep level of suffering and expose themselves to it more frequently than most.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
This is so true!0 -
Think OP you and many other contributors to this thread would find the book "The Chimp Paradox" by Prof. Steve Peters fascinating.
He came to prominence in the field of sports psychology working with elite athletes but the book covers a lot more than that.
In a sports context controlling my inner chimp would have saved me from a lot of pain when I raced motorbikes. If 100m is your optimal braking marker for a corner then braking at 50m isn't going to work just because you are angry that you fluffed the start!
But there's also times to release your chimp. Like when someone called me a cripple before a league game of squash - happy to let the chimp take over as winning on points wasn't enough, I had to win by running him into the ground.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm not a runner any longer but used to run trails in Cincinnati. Harvey Lewis is a legend here. He's a teacher that just decided one day he wanted to run Bad Water and within around four years he won the race (Bad Water is known as the worst 135 mile race in the world).
His training videos, which used to be on YouTube (not sure if they are any longer) were incredible and just a testament to what someone will do (and get used to) when they want something badly enough. Most don't know this about Cincinnati but we have some HUGE hills here. They call them the seven hills. Some of our trails have really challenging elevations (Harvey has said some of the most challenging he's run). He would put on a Winter Jacket, in 80 degree heat and pull a tire up these hills. Up and down, over and over again. Even today, the guy runs everywhere he goes. He'll fly somewhere and run from the airport to where he's staying.
After he won Badwater, I believe the next day he ran the rim of the Grand Canyon (like 30/40 miles).
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I have a rowing buddy, right now, training for an assault on the WR half marathon (over 60) indoor row. I see his training daily (we compare training notes, etc). The things he's willing to do, quite frankly, I'm not willing to go there! I just think over time he's grown accustomed to the suck. He goes into dark places so often, I'm not sure how he stays healthy. I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days. Some can manage to do it every 2/3 days. Maybe that's training for years and years that allows that. I think that's the psychology that needs to be studied -- pushing yourself just as hard every single day as your body's limits can take. The day you get to the race, it should be predictable.
Lots of great replies here, thanks all. Love the handy tips of swearing, and letting your inner chimp out.
@MikePfirrman Very insightful. This bit stands out to me:
"I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days."
I like this image - "the dark place", and the idea that we should mete it out to ourselves so as to avoid burnout.1 -
So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.9 -
Think OP you and many other contributors to this thread would find the book "The Chimp Paradox" by Prof. Steve Peters fascinating.
He came to prominence in the field of sports psychology working with elite athletes but the book covers a lot more than that.
In a sports context controlling my inner chimp would have saved me from a lot of pain when I raced motorbikes. If 100m is your optimal braking marker for a corner then braking at 50m isn't going to work just because you are angry that you fluffed the start!
But there's also times to release your chimp. Like when someone called me a cripple before a league game of squash - happy to let the chimp take over as winning on points wasn't enough, I had to win by running him into the ground.
My husband has just bought the chimp paradox, I'm looking forward to reading it.0 -
I do marathon and half marathon walks, getting back into running but not up to doing a marathon yet and still dropping a lot of weight. At some point I realised that when my legs hurt they will hurt regardless of whether or not I'm walking or if I stop, so I might as well carry on walking.
When I get to about Niles 19/20 it can get harder, at that point I just take it a mile by mile, then I'm closer to the goal, then just focus on completing the next mile..1 -
bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
To get rid of the mind fog, try drinking about a litre of water right now. Don't overdo the water ... don't drink several litres ... but it sounds as though you are dehydrated. And don't forget to consume some electrolytes.
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bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
@bendyourkneekatie You totally rock. I hope you are feeling better now. Massive kudos, and bravo on FFF!!!1 -
bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
Given your experience of marathons I'm a little surprised that a 50K has beaten you up so much. What was it about the event that caused that?0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
Given your experience of marathons I'm a little surprised that a 50K has beaten you up so much. What was it about the event that caused that?
HILLS!!!
Hills hills hills. Even though I trained on a very similar course, I never did as many hills in one run, and never at race speed. I also didn't wear a hat as it was quite windy and hats always seem to fly off my head in the wind, but the sun came out in force during the last hour and was very strong right on my face, which I think accounts for the headache.
After a shower at home I felt much more human and managed to walk a few kms to a cafe with the best salted caramel milkshakes, then do a big grocery shop and bake some cookies. Today I don't feel unwell or tired or anything, but my legs are still awful. Why do I live in a hilly area in a house with so many stairs?3 -
bendyourkneekatie wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
Given your experience of marathons I'm a little surprised that a 50K has beaten you up so much. What was it about the event that caused that?
HILLS!!!
Hills hills hills. Even though I trained on a very similar course, I never did as many hills in one run, and never at race speed. I also didn't wear a hat as it was quite windy and hats always seem to fly off my head in the wind, but the sun came out in force during the last hour and was very strong right on my face, which I think accounts for the headache.
After a shower at home I felt much more human and managed to walk a few kms to a cafe with the best salted caramel milkshakes, then do a big grocery shop and bake some cookies. Today I don't feel unwell or tired or anything, but my legs are still awful. Why do I live in a hilly area in a house with so many stairs?
You'll be right about the hat, but I know what you mean about hills. In trail races they're relentless. My first marathon also had a mile of elevation across nine hills, so it was either up or down for 28 miles.
In the context of this discussion one of the things for me is how we anchor that pain in our why. Perhaps one of the differences between those of us who train for events is that we can attribute a session to success in the main event. That may be hill sessions, cross training or digging deep in a tempo or intervals session. It's all in aid of a clear, measurable objective.2 -
@bendyourkneekatie Oh so can relate to ^^, at a HM last year lots of little hills that accumulated in the body. After the finish - a long flight of stairs down from the Finish line trail head to the Golf Course Club house for a shower and post run meal. All the runners looked really funky trying to go down stairs without fallingbendyourkneekatie wrote: »HILLS!!!
Hills hills hills. Even though I trained on a very similar course, I never did as many hills in one run, and never at race speed. Today I don't feel unwell or tired or anything, but my legs are still awful. Why do I live in a hilly area in a house with so many stairs?0 -
My first marathon was a hilly one. I trained on running hard up the hills, but not so much on running hard down them. My quads were completely shot by the end. We have stairs up from the street and there was no way I could climb those. I had to climb the grassy hill to the back of the house and have my husband drag me up the two steps into the house. Then it was at least 4 days before I could leave the house because of those stairs. Amazing what a difference it makes running hard up and down hills vs. just running easy.0
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I ran 22 km easy on both Saturday and Sunday. I can't believe how good I felt even at the end of both of them, and how few negative thoughts troubled me.
It's like creating this thread and doing this self-talk exercise prepared me for "That Dark Place" and banished it.
Knowing that my runs were just easy training runs, plus that I was mentally prepared for a hard race made the runs a pure pleasure.
Wasn't expecting such awesome results so soon! Really grateful to all who have contributed here in helping me think things through.
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i don't run but i lift. and some of the lifting i've done has been pretty hard.
you can stop exercise any time and that's why it's harder to keep doing it. what i do to not quit on those real grinder reps is pretty simple. 'if this was the flu you would not have the option to quit.' i mean, it's true, right? you can't just stop having the flu.
idk if that's odd or not. but i did have the flu a few years ago, and something about those two days and nights has stuck with me ever since. i'm a born stoic, me. tell me i just have to slog through it and i'll slog through. wave pompoms and blow sparkle-dust up my butt and i'll have to quit anyway because my eyes will be rolling so hard.
my reasoning to myself with the flu thing is something like, 'you couldnt' quit from the flu, and you lived through it, right?' again, idk if i'm just a bit odd.1 -
canadianlbs wrote: »i don't run but i lift. and some of the lifting i've done has been pretty hard.
you can stop exercise any time and that's why it's harder to keep doing it. what i do to not quit on those real grinder reps is pretty simple. 'if this was the flu you would not have the option to quit.' i mean, it's true, right? you can't just stop having the flu.
idk if that's odd or not. but i did have the flu a few years ago, and something about those two days and nights has stuck with me ever since. i'm a born stoic, me. tell me i just have to slog through it and i'll slog through. wave pompoms and blow sparkle-dust up my butt and i'll have to quit anyway because my eyes will be rolling so hard.
my reasoning to myself with the flu thing is something like, 'you couldnt' quit from the flu, and you lived through it, right?' again, idk if i'm just a bit odd.
@canadianlbs
'if this was the flu you would not have the option to quit.'
Hahaha that's a really useful way to look at it!0
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