The Psychology of Endurance
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I notice on long undulating hills you naturally try to recover on the easier parts rather than continue pushing to your maximum. When I'm trying to set a good time on this hill I watch my HR to ensure that on the almost plateau sections I'm still pushing my hardest.
That hill looks like fun, in a painful sort of way. Just looking at it, my natural tendency would be to "recover" from mile .08 to mile 1.1, so I'd be ready to push the next steep incline. I could see where a strong focus would be needed to push the entire distance.
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I notice on long undulating hills you naturally try to recover on the easier parts rather than continue pushing to your maximum. When I'm trying to set a good time on this hill I watch my HR to ensure that on the almost plateau sections I'm still pushing my hardest.
That hill looks like fun, in a painful sort of way. Just looking at it, my natural tendency would be to "recover" from mile .08 to mile 1.1, so I'd be ready to push the next steep incline. I could see where a strong focus would be needed to push the entire distance.
painfully fun...and that is why you are going to rock IMMT! i on the other hand would turn around and run (or ride) screaming away from it0 -
deannalfisher wrote: »painfully fun...and that is why you are going to rock IMMT! i on the other hand would turn around and run (or ride) screaming away from it
That's because you are a lot smarter than I am.
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I simply wonder a lot of times if you can train lactic acid tolerance. I know a guy (an online training buddy of mine) that was studied by the Australian national rowing team (he set the Australian record for indoor rowing for his age at 65 -- this guy has the VO2 max of a 20 year old!). What they figured out was that he was simply off the charts for Lactic Acid tolerance. I know when he trains, he follows the 80/20 rule better than about anyone I know. I think many of us (including me) push too hard on the easier days and not hard enough on the hard days.
I guess that's not a strategy but having familiarity with "the suck" helps tremendously. They've proven that your mind wants to quit before your muscles will physically lock up from Lactic buildup. That period between is where records are broken and races are won.2 -
If I'm having a hard time, I remember that the only way to get home is to continue.3
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A trait that does seem to be common amongst endurance athletes is an abnormal or unusual level of acceptance of pain. As long as pain isn't a sign of actual damage then it's a feeling to be managed rather than an imperative
This is true for me as far as cycling goes (not so much running, but I'm still fairly new there). I have some rotator cuff damage. On long rides I'll cycle through pain that would have me on the floor with an ice pack if I wasn't on the bike. Eventually, when I'm lucky, it becomes a part of the "one with the bike" experience - still pain, but no longer a focus, because I'm at a point where I'm beyond thinking about anything peddling rhythm and breathing.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »
I guess that's not a strategy but having familiarity with "the suck" helps tremendously. They've proven that your mind wants to quit before your muscles will physically lock up...
There's a lot to be said for intentionally going out to meet the man with the hammer, it teaches quite a lot about just how far you can go.
My first Ultra had me in a very dark place emotionally at about 35 miles, but once I'd HTFU I managed to push through that and keep going.3 -
@Orphia Is the rest of the class as helpful as this table? If so, I'm motivated to sign up for it once I'm done with my own teaching for the semester. I've run several half marathons, and I alternate between thinking "10k is plenty," "I don't wanna do a full marathon," and "I could totally train for a full."0
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@Orphia Is the rest of the class as helpful as this table? If so, I'm motivated to sign up for it once I'm done with my own teaching for the semester. I've run several half marathons, and I alternate between thinking "10k is plenty," "I don't wanna do a full marathon," and "I could totally train for a full."
@apullum The course is 6 weeks and I'm doing Week 4 currently. I highly recommend all I've seen so far.
It teaches actual science, nothing like Runner's World hyping up one new study of 5 mice or whatever.
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bendyourkneekatie wrote: »I'm one week out from my first 50km race. I don't feel like I have any specific strategies to keep going, except perhaps swearing at the very steep hills I work into my runs (I'm lucky to live near this race so I can practice the course ahead of time).
I try not to stop much when running but when I do stop for a drink or a quick hide in the shade (unfortunately my training has been through a pretty hot summer) I give myself two minutes and then I guess I swear at myself to start running again.. hmm.. do all my strategies involve swearing?
I start counting down the kms pretty early, figure out when I've done an eight a fifth a quarter etc.
And I listen to stuff. Podcasts or my politics or sociology lectures for uni. Unfortunately I can't multitask during the race as they don't allow headphones but I'm also pretty good at being a hard *kitten* with myself and just keeping going.
Writing all that has helped me distill it I think. Anytime I want to stop I rely on 3 things:
1. How pissed I'll be at myself if I stop;
2. Yes this is boring and uncomfortable but what would I be doing anyway, and;
3. What would I be doing anyway? Dealing with the kids or studying or cleaning or cooking. Can't I do a marathon every day please?
Embracing the suck is where it's at. It sucks, oh well, it sucks, keep going, it sucks, who cares...
This is very much my strategy. I swear a lot. Most of the time just quietly to myself. But I did a 100km run and was expecting a rest point at 75km. I had somehow got the distances wrong and the rest point was around 78km.
It was dark and cold and I was standing on a tow path by the Thames, wonder what the *kitten* I was doing out there and was it really worth it. I then just vented at the world. I am glad it was night time and there were no small children about, though I had the feeling they could probably hear me down by the rest point.
It nicely cleared my head and let me re-focus on the race.
I rounded the next bend and there was a group of "kids", late teens, just standing there. They parted like the red sea to let me through and not a single word or comment was muttered.8 -
I'm not a runner any longer but used to run trails in Cincinnati. Harvey Lewis is a legend here. He's a teacher that just decided one day he wanted to run Bad Water and within around four years he won the race (Bad Water is known as the worst 135 mile race in the world).
His training videos, which used to be on YouTube (not sure if they are any longer) were incredible and just a testament to what someone will do (and get used to) when they want something badly enough. Most don't know this about Cincinnati but we have some HUGE hills here. They call them the seven hills. Some of our trails have really challenging elevations (Harvey has said some of the most challenging he's run). He would put on a Winter Jacket, in 80 degree heat and pull a tire up these hills. Up and down, over and over again. Even today, the guy runs everywhere he goes. He'll fly somewhere and run from the airport to where he's staying.
After he won Badwater, I believe the next day he ran the rim of the Grand Canyon (like 30/40 miles).
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I have a rowing buddy, right now, training for an assault on the WR half marathon (over 60) indoor row. I see his training daily (we compare training notes, etc). The things he's willing to do, quite frankly, I'm not willing to go there! I just think over time he's grown accustomed to the suck. He goes into dark places so often, I'm not sure how he stays healthy. I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days. Some can manage to do it every 2/3 days. Maybe that's training for years and years that allows that. I think that's the psychology that needs to be studied -- pushing yourself just as hard every single day as your body's limits can take. The day you get to the race, it should be predictable.2 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I know a few people who fit this description. They seem to relish the chance to endure a deep level of suffering and expose themselves to it more frequently than most.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
This is so true!0 -
Think OP you and many other contributors to this thread would find the book "The Chimp Paradox" by Prof. Steve Peters fascinating.
He came to prominence in the field of sports psychology working with elite athletes but the book covers a lot more than that.
In a sports context controlling my inner chimp would have saved me from a lot of pain when I raced motorbikes. If 100m is your optimal braking marker for a corner then braking at 50m isn't going to work just because you are angry that you fluffed the start!
But there's also times to release your chimp. Like when someone called me a cripple before a league game of squash - happy to let the chimp take over as winning on points wasn't enough, I had to win by running him into the ground.5 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm not a runner any longer but used to run trails in Cincinnati. Harvey Lewis is a legend here. He's a teacher that just decided one day he wanted to run Bad Water and within around four years he won the race (Bad Water is known as the worst 135 mile race in the world).
His training videos, which used to be on YouTube (not sure if they are any longer) were incredible and just a testament to what someone will do (and get used to) when they want something badly enough. Most don't know this about Cincinnati but we have some HUGE hills here. They call them the seven hills. Some of our trails have really challenging elevations (Harvey has said some of the most challenging he's run). He would put on a Winter Jacket, in 80 degree heat and pull a tire up these hills. Up and down, over and over again. Even today, the guy runs everywhere he goes. He'll fly somewhere and run from the airport to where he's staying.
After he won Badwater, I believe the next day he ran the rim of the Grand Canyon (like 30/40 miles).
I guess I'm trying to say that I think a lot of us average endurance athletes (many times) mistake the preparation others are willing to do for they have some incredible psychology. I think the real psychology is making yourself prepare enough and repeat painful scenarios over and over again until they seem "normal".
I have a rowing buddy, right now, training for an assault on the WR half marathon (over 60) indoor row. I see his training daily (we compare training notes, etc). The things he's willing to do, quite frankly, I'm not willing to go there! I just think over time he's grown accustomed to the suck. He goes into dark places so often, I'm not sure how he stays healthy. I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days. Some can manage to do it every 2/3 days. Maybe that's training for years and years that allows that. I think that's the psychology that needs to be studied -- pushing yourself just as hard every single day as your body's limits can take. The day you get to the race, it should be predictable.
Lots of great replies here, thanks all. Love the handy tips of swearing, and letting your inner chimp out.
@MikePfirrman Very insightful. This bit stands out to me:
"I can only go to that dark place, perhaps every 10/15 days."
I like this image - "the dark place", and the idea that we should mete it out to ourselves so as to avoid burnout.1 -
So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.9 -
Think OP you and many other contributors to this thread would find the book "The Chimp Paradox" by Prof. Steve Peters fascinating.
He came to prominence in the field of sports psychology working with elite athletes but the book covers a lot more than that.
In a sports context controlling my inner chimp would have saved me from a lot of pain when I raced motorbikes. If 100m is your optimal braking marker for a corner then braking at 50m isn't going to work just because you are angry that you fluffed the start!
But there's also times to release your chimp. Like when someone called me a cripple before a league game of squash - happy to let the chimp take over as winning on points wasn't enough, I had to win by running him into the ground.
My husband has just bought the chimp paradox, I'm looking forward to reading it.0 -
I do marathon and half marathon walks, getting back into running but not up to doing a marathon yet and still dropping a lot of weight. At some point I realised that when my legs hurt they will hurt regardless of whether or not I'm walking or if I stop, so I might as well carry on walking.
When I get to about Niles 19/20 it can get harder, at that point I just take it a mile by mile, then I'm closer to the goal, then just focus on completing the next mile..1 -
bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
To get rid of the mind fog, try drinking about a litre of water right now. Don't overdo the water ... don't drink several litres ... but it sounds as though you are dehydrated. And don't forget to consume some electrolytes.
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bendyourkneekatie wrote: »So I did my first ultra today (just 50km) and I honestly have no further insight into how/why I keep going than I did before. I struggled, my legs cramped, there were so many hills that made me want to stop or at least start walking, I contemplated quitting multiple times and yet... I didn't...
And now I have horribly sore legs, a headache, a bottle of cheap wine with the race logo on it, a plaque that says "first female", a mind fog that won't help me work on the essay due tomorrow, and an irritability that is not coping with my kids well at all. Seems like a crazy thing to have done to myself.
@bendyourkneekatie You totally rock. I hope you are feeling better now. Massive kudos, and bravo on FFF!!!1
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