[science] calorie calculators: what is the statistical spread in a population?

yirara

You all know those calorie calculators that calculate BMI and TDEE based on activity level, using various equations. As those equations are based on statistical averages I'd like to know what the spread is within a population.

For example, my maintenance calories for a pretty sedentary, and fidget-free lifestyle Harris-Benedict gives me:
bmi: 1347kcal
tdee: 1617kcal

Yet my maintenance calories are about 250kcal high, without sport. I'm curious where my numbers compare to a whole population if this is somehow possible, taking age, gender, size and weight into account.

DX2JX2

Find a data source that gives you the standard deviation of the average and you can figure it out.

yirara

DX2JX2 wrote: »

Find a data source that gives you the standard deviation of the average and you can figure it out.

I've been looking, but found nothing so far.

MegaMooseEsq

I haven't dove into all the links, but maybe this would help: https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

AnnPT77

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

I haven't dove into all the links, but maybe this would help: https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

This ^^^ is the best I've found, too . . . but be careful to understand that it's talking RMR, not NEAT or TDEE; and, at least as I understand it, it describes variation among the entire population (people of all sizes), not a given subset, so you can't extrapolate from this to variations in similar-size similar-age people.

OP, remember that differences in NEAT via daily non-exercise activity can be very significant, and the so-called calculators only capture gross-level characterizations like differences in steps or job format. I'm sorry to say I don't have a cite for it, but I've read research suggesting that simple fidgetiness vs placidity could account for a difference in the low hundreds of calories per day.

There are other potential much smaller sources of NEAT variation, too: muscularity, TEF, etc. NEAT as as whole is a big deal, maybe/probably (?) bigger than RMR variation.

yirara

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

I haven't dove into all the links, but maybe this would help: https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

Thanks a lot I'll dive into this tomorrow.

AnnPT77

P.S. In another thread, there was what I considered a very insight-provoking side discussion on the variability question, with some actual expert knowledge injected.

The side discussion starts earlier in the thread (when I say what turns out to have been some stupid stuff by misunderstanding the stats, and unintentionally upset someone else along the way besides ), but I felt like it started getting good/informative at about the point I've linked:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/41334672#Comment_41334672

Perhaps it won't strike you the same way, but I felt like I learned a lot on that thread from that side discussion.

yirara

AnnPT77 wrote: »

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

I haven't dove into all the links, but maybe this would help: https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

This ^^^ is the best I've found, too . . . but be careful to understand that it's talking RMR, not NEAT or TDEE; and, at least as I understand it, it describes variation among the entire population (people of all sizes), not a given subset, so you can't extrapolate from this to variations in similar-size similar-age people.

OP, remember that differences in NEAT via daily non-exercise activity can be very significant, and the so-called calculators only capture gross-level characterizations like differences in steps or job format. I'm sorry to say I don't have a cite for it, but I've read research suggesting that simple fidgetiness vs placidity could account for a difference in the low hundreds of calories per day.

There are other potential much smaller sources of NEAT variation, too: muscularity, TEF, etc. NEAT as as whole is a big deal, maybe/probably (?) bigger than RMR variation.

Odd, I didn't get it in my search. Yes, I kind of understand the different kinds of energy expenditure, though I do need to do a bit more background reading.

I know the fidgetty bit. I can sit behind my computer for a long time without moving. I'm not a fidgetter, but a hyperfocusser. But yes, muscles do play a role for me. I don't know why, but for a woman at 44, in a deficit and with normal weight I build muscles very fast (while lagging behind strength and hardly gaining any). Mind you, while being muscular, I have no other male characteristics other than a higher calorie need.

yirara

AnnPT77 wrote: »

P.S. In another thread, there was what I considered a very insight-provoking side discussion on the variability question, with some actual expert knowledge injected.

The side discussion starts earlier in the thread (when I say what turns out to have been some stupid stuff by misunderstanding the stats, and unintentionally upset someone else along the way besides ), but I felt like it started getting good/informative at about the point I've linked:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/41334672#Comment_41334672

Perhaps it won't strike you the same way, but I felt like I learned a lot on that thread from that side discussion.

Cool! More to dive into tomorrow!

MegaMooseEsq

AnnPT77 wrote: »

MegaMooseEsq wrote: »

I haven't dove into all the links, but maybe this would help: https://examine.com/nutrition/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/

This ^^^ is the best I've found, too . . . but be careful to understand that it's talking RMR, not NEAT or TDEE; and, at least as I understand it, it describes variation among the entire population (people of all sizes), not a given subset, so you can't extrapolate from this to variations in similar-size similar-age people.

OP, remember that differences in NEAT via daily non-exercise activity can be very significant, and the so-called calculators only capture gross-level characterizations like differences in steps or job format. I'm sorry to say I don't have a cite for it, but I've read research suggesting that simple fidgetiness vs placidity could account for a difference in the low hundreds of calories per day.

There are other potential much smaller sources of NEAT variation, too: muscularity, TEF, etc. NEAT as as whole is a big deal, maybe/probably (?) bigger than RMR variation.

It's very likely I stuck it on my link lists after you posted it somewhere. I have a tab in my dieting spreadsheet for helpful links. On the TDEE element, the article links to at least one study breaking down the elements of TDEE: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15534426. In a nutshell, the study concludes that we can identify a general range for RMR, exercise, and diet-induced thermogenesis, but we really don't have a good way to measure NEAT.