Cutting aggressively -- How low can I go without losing muscle?
mikenmar
Posts: 31 Member
I'm a 49-year-old male, 5'10", currently 168 pounds. I lift weights four times a week. I walk at least 30 mins a day, and I do cardio 1-2 times a week. But I have an office job, so apart from that exercise my lifestyle is pretty sedentary.
I'm aggressively cutting to lose the last 10-12 pounds of fat I need to drop to get really ripped. But I've got a decent amount of muscle, and I don't want to lose my gains.
How low can I go in my caloric intake without losing muscle? Assume I'm getting at least 150-175 grams of protein a day. I'm currently eating about 1,500 cals/day and I'm not getting weaker, but can I go any lower than that?
I'm aggressively cutting to lose the last 10-12 pounds of fat I need to drop to get really ripped. But I've got a decent amount of muscle, and I don't want to lose my gains.
How low can I go in my caloric intake without losing muscle? Assume I'm getting at least 150-175 grams of protein a day. I'm currently eating about 1,500 cals/day and I'm not getting weaker, but can I go any lower than that?
1
Replies
-
Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.0 -
Adding again: Just to clarify, I'm not planning to change my lifting routine. My question is how low can I go with my caloric intake, assuming I still get enough protein.
I'm not trying to put on more muscle at this point, I just want to lose the fat.1 -
You will always lose a mix of fat, fluid and muscle
Sounds like you're doing what you can to limit the muscle loss though.
I wouldn't cut calories any further. The more you drop them the more you'll lose lean muscle.4 -
1500 sounds pretty low given your stats2
-
Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.
Closer to 25%-30% bodyfat. Definitely not anywhere near 15%.
I'm not recommending or condoning anything here, but just purely for educational purposes you may want to do a search for PSMF, and/or RFL (Rapid Fat Loss Handbook) or UD 2.0 (Ultimate Diet 2.0) by Lyle McDonald. These are not programs targeted at, or useful for, genpop, but are aimed at people with specific body composition goals accompanied by appropriate training routines.
With that said, speaking in general terms for most people, an overly aggressive calorie deficit is counterproductive and not beneficial in the long term.12 -
Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.
Closer to 25%-30% bodyfat. Definitely not anywhere near 15%.
Wow, OK. So if I'm at 25% BF, I need to lose another 25 pounds or so to get to 10% BF? That would put me at under 145 pounds for a muscular man 5'10". That doesn't sound right to me.
0 -
Not exact since we're all built a bit differently, but:
2 -
I wouldn't go any lower than 1500 for any sustained period of time, many will argue that's as low as males should go. Assuming you're losing at that level, stay the course; there's only so much you can do so fast (commonly referred is 1% body weight per week).1
-
Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.
Closer to 25%-30% bodyfat. Definitely not anywhere near 15%.
Wow, OK. So if I'm at 25% BF, I need to lose another 25 pounds or so to get to 10% BF? That would put me at under 145 pounds for a muscular man 5'10". That doesn't sound right to me.
Unfortunately, you may be over estimating the amount of muscle you have. 1500 is really low for your stats and you're probably already heading into muscle loss territory. What's the rush to cut so hard?5 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.
Closer to 25%-30% bodyfat. Definitely not anywhere near 15%.
Wow, OK. So if I'm at 25% BF, I need to lose another 25 pounds or so to get to 10% BF? That would put me at under 145 pounds for a muscular man 5'10". That doesn't sound right to me.
Unfortunately, you may be over estimating the amount of muscle you have. 1500 is really low for your stats and you're probably already heading into muscle loss territory. What's the rush to cut so hard?
Momentum, basically. For whatever reason, I'm on a tear right now. I'd like to keep it going. (BTW, I've lost 97 pounds in the last year, just for some context.)
4 -
I wouldn't go lower than 1% bodyweight per week. If you do go lower, even while following certain protocols, you can still lose more lean mass than you really need to. No need to go so aggressive unless you are an experienced bodybuilder in a competition and have a strict deadline.3
-
Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".4 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »Adding: Here's where I am right now:
https://i.imgur.com/qX2FhEa.jpg
What is that, about 15% body fat? Any estimates on how much more I need to lose? I'd like to get some abs and lose that roll of fat under my armpits so my chest pops a bit more.
Closer to 25%-30% bodyfat. Definitely not anywhere near 15%.
Wow, OK. So if I'm at 25% BF, I need to lose another 25 pounds or so to get to 10% BF? That would put me at under 145 pounds for a muscular man 5'10". That doesn't sound right to me.
Unfortunately, you may be over estimating the amount of muscle you have. 1500 is really low for your stats and you're probably already heading into muscle loss territory. What's the rush to cut so hard?
Momentum, basically. For whatever reason, I'm on a tear right now. I'd like to keep it going. (BTW, I've lost 97 pounds in the last year, just for some context.)
So you will already have lost muscle- it's inevitable especially given your rate of loss.
I would work with a small deficit (0.5lb per week) and a good lifting programme.3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
OK, sorry -- I guess I'm not trying to get "ripped". I'm just trying to lose the fat without losing the muscle. If that makes me skinny fat, then that's fine for now.
That's very impressive in any event. Thanks, you're an inspiration.3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
OK, sorry -- I guess I'm not trying to get "ripped". I'm just trying to lose the fat without losing the muscle. If that makes me skinny fat, then that's fine for now.
That's very impressive in any event. Thanks, you're an inspiration.
No, you don't want skinny fat if you can avoid it...3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
OK, sorry -- I guess I'm not trying to get "ripped". I'm just trying to lose the fat without losing the muscle. If that makes me skinny fat, then that's fine for now.
That's very impressive in any event. Thanks, you're an inspiration.
Hey... you aren't going to be "skinny fat". I hate this term as it's misused too freaking much. Skinny fat is thin, no muscle mass at all with very high body fat. Think about that 150 pound 6'1 guy who does nothing physical but drink Red Bull, eat cheetos and play World of Warcraft. If you lose the fat you have and get "ripped" with abs and good muscle definition you won't be skinny fat - you just won't be as yoked as you had hoped to be. This isn't unusual... same thing happened to me on my first bulk. Heck, every single time I cut I end up having to cut more than I had anticipated because we are all fatter than we think.
It's obvious you will have muscle - you can see bulges in the right place right now even through the fluffiness (and chest hair - that's a few pounds right there. lol). You are actually lucky in a way - your fat distribution seems to be pretty even or upper body with not too much centered in your lower gut like a lot of men our age. When I bulk my gut is the first thing to grow and always becomes my predominant feature, which sucks. Keep cutting - keep lifting. Use progression on your lifts and current strength to gauge muscle loss. You don't want to get progressively weaker. Get enough protein and keep lifting with intensity.4 -
TavistockToad wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
OK, sorry -- I guess I'm not trying to get "ripped". I'm just trying to lose the fat without losing the muscle. If that makes me skinny fat, then that's fine for now.
That's very impressive in any event. Thanks, you're an inspiration.
No, you don't want skinny fat if you can avoid it...
OK, let me try one more time: Forget what I said about abs, or having a chest that pops, or any of that.
I JUST WANT TO LOSE FAT WITHOUT LOSING MUSCLE.
I don't really care if that makes me skinny, fat, ripped, or oblong shaped. I sincerely apologize for any confusion.
Thank you to those of you who simply answered "don't go below 1500". I don't know if that's the right number, but at least it answers my question.
1 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
To be fair, I'd say that overstates the case and misstates what "skinny fat" actually is. The medical term for it is "Metabolically Obese, Normal Weight", so OP's outcome would depend upon what his body composition was like as a result of that 10 pound loss.
If his body composition remained at/near where it is now, 'skinny fat' is certainly a possible outcome; if he were to reduce his body fat significantly and end up at, say, around 15%-18%, he'd be nowhere near obese (metabolically or otherwise), but admittedly may not be happy with the overall aesthetics as far as muscle mass. It may take a long recomp and/or several bulk/cut cycles to reach his ultimate goal.
A relevant sidebar to the discussion may be that nobody loses 100% fat, especially when dieting to an even somewhat lean body composition.2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Not trying to be derogatory at all but you are going to have to put on more muscle to look ripped. I'm in my 50s, only an inch taller than you and currently 180 pounds at about 10% body fat. My last Dexa was 8.1% at 175 but then there was the Christmas season and I indulged plenty. (insulation against our Canadian winters) I started eating cleaner again and added a small amount of of cardio around mid January.
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you drop ten more pounds from where you are without adding several pounds of muscle, you'll just be "skinny fat".
OK, sorry -- I guess I'm not trying to get "ripped". I'm just trying to lose the fat without losing the muscle. If that makes me skinny fat, then that's fine for now.
That's very impressive in any event. Thanks, you're an inspiration.
No, you don't want skinny fat if you can avoid it...
OK, let me try one more time: Forget what I said about abs, or having a chest that pops, or any of that.
I JUST WANT TO LOSE FAT WITHOUT LOSING MUSCLE.
I don't really care if that makes me skinny, fat, ripped, or oblong shaped. I sincerely apologize for any confusion.
Thank you to those of you who simply answered "don't go below 1500". I don't know if that's the right number, but at least it answers my question.
:huh:4 -
FWIW, I went from 265 to 168 in the space of a year, and I'm lifting heavier weights, with a greater frequency, than I did when I started. And it's not because I wasn't lifting as hard as I could when I started.
I'm not sure there's any way to explain that other than saying "I lost fat without losing muscle, and in fact I probably added muscle."
I realize that going from 168 to 150 is not nearly the same as going from 265 to 168, but my point is that I'm not sure your statement is necessarily true for everyone all the time.
I will add that I've been lifting weights on and off since I was 13, so there was definitely some muscle memory. Also, I think I use decent form and technique for an amateur.1 -
Not according to Lyle...
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/
1 -
^^ Whoops -- I screwed up the quoting on that. The part from "FWIW" on is me, not AnvilHead.0
-
I've done the PSMF for a couple weeks. Cleaned up well. Didn't lose muscle. Not suggesting it to anyone but, it's there to read.5
-
Thanks, I'm checking out the PSMF and Lyle McDonald references.
BTW, the initial shot I posted didn't really get my arms. Here's a couple side shots to demonstrate just how rapidly I'm approaching the state of skinny fat:
3 -
Nice guns. 2
-
As we age the ability to gain muscle fast decreases markedly.
As the amount of training we have under our belt increases the ability to gain muscle fast and easily rapidly decreases.
As we get leaner the ability to sustain rapid rate of fat loss without risking muscle loss decreases.
You have done well so far, don't throw it away due to impatience.12 -
I wouldn't say you look "skinny fat", maybe just a bit imbalanced where your fat stores are located (arms vs torso, no back/legs to go by). Probably not enough muscle to look "ripped/shredded" but good enough to be "lean" when you are dialed down in weight/bodyfat.
You definitely have some muscle, you might look higher BF with lots of body hair & due to your skin's elasticity (age)
<--I would consider myself "lean" not "shredded/ripped"...this is a very difficult look to attain & maintain without drugs of course. Lyle McDonald = good source for rapid fat loss/PSMF if you're experienced & strong willed enough (only for temporary use)2 -
Thanks, I'm checking out the PSMF and Lyle McDonald references.
BTW, the initial shot I posted didn't really get my arms. Here's a couple side shots to demonstrate just how rapidly I'm approaching the state of skinny fat:
Arms are on point. LOL to dust off an over used term... Core (abs obliques and back) is probably where you might want to add some focus?2 -
^^^ Yes, thanks. And yes, I'm on it. For many years, I only worked out my chest and arms, basically, so they're a bit overdeveloped compared to the rest of my body. A year ago I couldn't a single pull-up; now I can do five on a bad day. Working on the abs too.
I used to have very strong legs too, when I was much younger. But when I got fat it caused my knees to become sore. I'm just now getting past that, so I will be taking up a more aggressive lower body routine soon as well.3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions