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Sugar tax in the UK
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janejellyroll wrote: »neugebauer52 wrote: »A brilliant way to make extra money for the coffers, but will government use it for those disadvantaged / aged / sick / education / healthcare? And if you are hooked on sugar, you will find the money for your daily dose - like any other drug or alcohol.
Your question is answered in the article itself: "In England that income is being invested in schools sports and breakfast clubs."
And of course we always believe everything government tells its people.5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?7 -
I’ll make some predictions.
- Taxes does influence behaviour. We will see a reduction in consumption of sugary soda.
- People will replace with something else.
- Other nations will adopt a wait and see approach.
- When there is no appreciable change to the obesity rates the taxes will remain (too convenient) and something else will be tried.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Why is this directed at me? I’m questioning the statement of someone who suggested artificial sweeteners are more harmful than regular sugars. I’m well aware of the cause of obesity - too many calories, regardless of the source, as I pointed out in a different post. I’m also not a proponent of these taxes so I’m not sure why I’m quoted here.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Stay tuned, those items wil be coming.3 -
just tax obesity if that is the end goal. i predict homemade soda will be big in the UK4
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I’ll make some predictions.
- Taxes does influence behaviour. We will see a reduction in consumption of sugary soda.
- People will replace with something else.
and- When there is no appreciable change to the obesity rates the taxes will remain (too convenient) and something else will be tried.
This is exactly what I think.
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Packerjohn wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Stay tuned, those items wil be coming.
There's already an "Obesity-is-illegal" dystopian YA novel: https://www.amazon.com/Gone-Parallel-Book-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B00C27ZEQO (I only downloaded it because it was free. As for quality, suffice to say that in general—barring Project Gutenberg public domain classics—one gets what one pays for. In other words, noting that this book exists should not be construed as a recommendation.)1 -
Cherimoose wrote: »
A nanny state micromanages every aspect of your life, under the false premise that you're not capable of making good choices without them.
But its for your own good! You don't need freedoms; see here's all the data that shows it will be much better for you when we handle everything for you.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Nothing is being banned, just taxed.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
In case you didn't see my earlier post upthread:
"One country that has already seen a positive impact on public health from a junk food excise tax is Hungary. Manufacturers of junk foods in that country pay a “value added tax” of 27% on top of the 25% tax that’s imposed on most foods. Hungary’s law levies the junk food tax based largely on sugar and salt content.
Four years after Hungary’s tax was introduced, more than 59% of consumers had lowered their consumption of the offending junk food products, according to a study conducted by the country’s National Institute of Pharmacy and Nutrition and the World Health Organization (WHO). Overweight or obese adults were twice as likely to change their eating habits than were people of normal weight, the researchers found. When consumers were polled, they reported that they were opting for less expensive products—but that the taxes also made them more mindful of the health risks of junk food."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arleneweintraub/2018/01/10/should-we-tax-junk-foods-to-curb-obesity/#3085d5097df63 -
the other side of the coin, however, is that Type 1 diabetics, who frequently use high sugar drinks such as Lucozade when they are having a low blood sugar moment, now will find they need to consume DOUBLE the amount of reduced sugar liquid to get the same level of carbs. Not difficult you might think, but try getting 200ml of lucozade into a belligerent/in denial teenager rather than 100ml.....1
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janejellyroll wrote: »neugebauer52 wrote: »A brilliant way to make extra money for the coffers, but will government use it for those disadvantaged / aged / sick / education / healthcare? And if you are hooked on sugar, you will find the money for your daily dose - like any other drug or alcohol.
Your question is answered in the article itself: "In England that income is being invested in schools sports and breakfast clubs."
And of course we always believe everything government tells its people.
Do you have any particular evidence that the government is lying about this or is this just free-floating cynicism?3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Did you read the article? Nothing has been banned.5 -
girlinahat wrote: »the other side of the coin, however, is that Type 1 diabetics, who frequently use high sugar drinks such as Lucozade when they are having a low blood sugar moment, now will find they need to consume DOUBLE the amount of reduced sugar liquid to get the same level of carbs. Not difficult you might think, but try getting 200ml of lucozade into a belligerent/in denial teenager rather than 100ml.....
And how much of the sugary drink consumption is directly related to the needs of T1 diabetics who need high sugar drinks for medical reasons?
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As a child in the UK I never drank sugary drinks and still don't as an adult. I still became obese. It had nothing to do with sugary drinks.
We pay tax on cigarettes and alcohol, people still buy them.
It won't change a thing.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
Why is this directed at me? I’m questioning the statement of someone who suggested artificial sweeteners are more harmful than regular sugars. I’m well aware of the cause of obesity - too many calories, regardless of the source, as I pointed out in a different post. I’m also not a proponent of these taxes so I’m not sure why I’m quoted here.
Sorry. I wasn't directing it AT you. I agree with what you said. Just adding my thoughts.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
In case you didn't see my earlier post upthread:
"One country that has already seen a positive impact on public health from a junk food excise tax is Hungary. Manufacturers of junk foods in that country pay a “value added tax” of 27% on top of the 25% tax that’s imposed on most foods. Hungary’s law levies the junk food tax based largely on sugar and salt content.
Four years after Hungary’s tax was introduced, more than 59% of consumers had lowered their consumption of the offending junk food products, according to a study conducted by the country’s National Institute of Pharmacy and Nutrition and the World Health Organization (WHO). Overweight or obese adults were twice as likely to change their eating habits than were people of normal weight, the researchers found. When consumers were polled, they reported that they were opting for less expensive products—but that the taxes also made them more mindful of the health risks of junk food."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arleneweintraub/2018/01/10/should-we-tax-junk-foods-to-curb-obesity/#3085d5097df6
Uh-huh. It's good that there is a positive effect. But that wasn't what my statement was about. To clarify, if the government starts adding a Special tax to whatever they believe we the people don't need, where does it stop? And do you really trust the government to always have YOUR best interest in mind?3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Fitness_and_FODMAP wrote: »The trouble is, they'll just replace sugar with artificial crap, which is equally, if not more damaging ... We'll see won't we
How are artificial sweeteners more damaging? If the end game is to reduce obesity, switching to artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke instead of regular for example - is often a very productive solution.
What about greasy fish and chips? McDonalds burgers and fries? They going to ban those as well? Do those contribute to obesity? Where does this all end once you start banning things? And who makes the decisions as to what to ban and not ban?
In case you didn't see my earlier post upthread:
"One country that has already seen a positive impact on public health from a junk food excise tax is Hungary. Manufacturers of junk foods in that country pay a “value added tax” of 27% on top of the 25% tax that’s imposed on most foods. Hungary’s law levies the junk food tax based largely on sugar and salt content.
Four years after Hungary’s tax was introduced, more than 59% of consumers had lowered their consumption of the offending junk food products, according to a study conducted by the country’s National Institute of Pharmacy and Nutrition and the World Health Organization (WHO). Overweight or obese adults were twice as likely to change their eating habits than were people of normal weight, the researchers found. When consumers were polled, they reported that they were opting for less expensive products—but that the taxes also made them more mindful of the health risks of junk food."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arleneweintraub/2018/01/10/should-we-tax-junk-foods-to-curb-obesity/#3085d5097df6
But nowhere in that article does it say what happened to the obesity rates in Hungary. Kinda an important piece of information to be left unsaid.
I just glanced through the related report, http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/332882/assessment-impact-PH-tax-report.pdf?ua=1
Again, they note a reduction in the consumption of the products but NOWHERE do they comment on a reduction in the actual obesity. Seem much happier with the revenue generated, and less concerned with the underlying problem.6 -
Packerjohn wrote: »girlinahat wrote: »the other side of the coin, however, is that Type 1 diabetics, who frequently use high sugar drinks such as Lucozade when they are having a low blood sugar moment, now will find they need to consume DOUBLE the amount of reduced sugar liquid to get the same level of carbs. Not difficult you might think, but try getting 200ml of lucozade into a belligerent/in denial teenager rather than 100ml.....
And how much of the sugary drink consumption is directly related to the needs of T1 diabetics who need high sugar drinks for medical reasons?
so one minority group without a choice in terms of medical need (who ordinarily would favour artificial sweeteners) are to be penalised (both financially and in terms of availability) for the actions of another group who have a choice, but choose not to exercise that choice?3
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