I suck at maintenance
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CarvedTones
Posts: 2,340 Member
Weird thing to complain about; I wouldn't get any sympathy over in the General forum. This morning I was 1.4 pounds below the lowest weight I saw while losing. I guess that's not true since I am still losing. I knew I was being conservative.
I have a really hard time logging my exercise because I think the numbers my watch and/or mfp give me are fantasy numbers. For example, yesterday my watch said 23152 steps, 10.35 miles and 938 calories in 215 minutes. If I were to log that as 3 mph for 200 minutes, mfp would give me 800 calories. I don't believe either of those calorie totals. I logged it as 100 minutes of 3 mph for 400 calories. Since walking has been my primary exercise, it is hard to distinguish between what is just normal walking around and what is extra. I am set to sedentary so probably not very many steps are expected. I have walked more than 10000 just about every day this month, but my diary doesn't reflect that.
I also have calorie goal low - 1600. I was losing with it that low toward the end of the loss phase, but I wasn't logging exercise at all. I am 5'8", 59 and male. I have done some extreme dieting for 2 months or more in the past and I do think I have some adaptive thermogenesis; maybe 200 calories.
Today I will go SUP paddling to throw another variable in. Very wide variance on estimates for burn with that.
I have a really hard time logging my exercise because I think the numbers my watch and/or mfp give me are fantasy numbers. For example, yesterday my watch said 23152 steps, 10.35 miles and 938 calories in 215 minutes. If I were to log that as 3 mph for 200 minutes, mfp would give me 800 calories. I don't believe either of those calorie totals. I logged it as 100 minutes of 3 mph for 400 calories. Since walking has been my primary exercise, it is hard to distinguish between what is just normal walking around and what is extra. I am set to sedentary so probably not very many steps are expected. I have walked more than 10000 just about every day this month, but my diary doesn't reflect that.
I also have calorie goal low - 1600. I was losing with it that low toward the end of the loss phase, but I wasn't logging exercise at all. I am 5'8", 59 and male. I have done some extreme dieting for 2 months or more in the past and I do think I have some adaptive thermogenesis; maybe 200 calories.
Today I will go SUP paddling to throw another variable in. Very wide variance on estimates for burn with that.
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Replies
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I usually check different sources for my calories burned, and I depend a lot on my measuring tape rather than the scale. I think "devices" can only give us ball-park, just my opinion. I go mostly by how I feel, energetic, fatigued, etc. On exercise, I try to go lower than "device" or mfp numbers, and higher on food intake. Not a lot, but it works well for me to do that.
Different exercise/activity is great. They say if you "love" what you're doing, then you will continue to do it. Athletes eat tons of food, and I don't think they log once they know how much they need to maintain.2 -
What does the walking formula Bodyweight in lbs x Miles Walked x 0.3 = Net Calories give you for your ten mile walk?5
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OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.37 -
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I 100% agree with kimny72.
Your issue has always been perfectionism and anxiety.
You know how much you ate to lose weight. You're still losing because you aren't eating enough. Bump up to 2000 a day, stay at that - don't worry about exercise calories, because you're putting way too much into this.
Stay at 2000 for three months. Don't log exercise at all. At first you may see a bump up, but stick with it.
I mean, c'mon. I'm a 64 YO retired woman at 140lbs and 5'7" and I eat 2200 per day to maintain. I get a little exercise, but nothing crazy...just walking for 45 minutes 3-5 times per week.
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CarvedTones wrote: »Weird thing to complain about; I wouldn't get any sympathy over in the General forum. This morning I was 1.4 pounds below the lowest weight I saw while losing. I guess that's not true since I am still losing. I knew I was being conservative.
I have a really hard time logging my exercise because I think the numbers my watch and/or mfp give me are fantasy numbers. For example, yesterday my watch said 23152 steps, 10.35 miles and 938 calories in 215 minutes. If I were to log that as 3 mph for 200 minutes, mfp would give me 800 calories. I don't believe either of those calorie totals. I logged it as 100 minutes of 3 mph for 400 calories. Since walking has been my primary exercise, it is hard to distinguish between what is just normal walking around and what is extra. I am set to sedentary so probably not very many steps are expected. I have walked more than 10000 just about every day this month, but my diary doesn't reflect that.
I also have calorie goal low - 1600. I was losing with it that low toward the end of the loss phase, but I wasn't logging exercise at all. I am 5'8", 59 and male. I have done some extreme dieting for 2 months or more in the past and I do think I have some adaptive thermogenesis; maybe 200 calories.
Today I will go SUP paddling to throw another variable in. Very wide variance on estimates for burn with that.
I gave you a "like" for the title of your post alone.
That's me....... 0 -
abbynormal52 wrote: »
I wouldn't. It may serve as a sanity check. Maybe. But it ignores too many variables. So just because runner's world published the formula... that doesn't mean it is actually what makes the most sense.
If you really want to, here is an outside calculator you can use: https://exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs
If you want to see a quick estimate of calories per mile per 100lbs for both running and walking you can look at: https://exrx.net/Aerobic/WalkCalExp
Again this would be a quick estimate that ignores incline. and whether you're walking on pavement, grass, or dirt.
For the OP nothing will change untill he decides to cautiously increase his calories.
23000 steps is clearly well above MFP's very active level which uses an activity factor of 1.8 for daily activity. At a guess it will be somewhere around 2.0x bmr for that day. Again this assumes completely wrapping the steps into daily activity and not trying to calculate them separately.
MFP uses an activity factor of 1.25 for sedentary. There is almost no one who logs their food properly who doesn't move beyond that activity factor by the time they accumulate 5K steps. This again, assumes that the steps are not also logged as a separate exercise but are wrapped into the activity level instead.
10K steps brings people, usually, to the level of Active on MFP. That would be an activity factor of 1.6
And all this is irrelevant. @CarvedTones will continue losing weight as he slowly increases calories which he knew going into this given how slowly he was prepared to increase them and how far below his expected maintenance he was starting from.
But the equilibrium point won't be reached, magically, if even this cautious increase don't take place.
Both a watch and MFP, by the way, do not give you a NET number of calories for exercise. In other words the number you get includes the calories spent to be alive during the time period. This is one source of the often quoted "over-estimation" of exercise calories.
Because MFP has already assigned at least 1.25x BMR calories to the same time slot (or 1.4, 1.6 or 1.8x BMR depending on your activity setting).
So at the very least, the amount that has already been pre-assigned to the time slot creates an over-estimation if you just add the gross exercise calories on top because you are double counting the base activity calorie portion of the burn.
Most watches/fitness bands take this into account already when you see the "exercise adjustment" from a connected device that is working properly and is using integration with mfp that is not buggy or broken.
And again. All that said.
You have your trending weight app, right OP?
You can see what your weight trend is doing, right?
You can set yourself a limit of +/- 1.5lbs trending weight before you know you have to add or deduct 200 to 300 Cal from your daily average food intake in order to correct an unwanted trend in either direction.
I leave you with this thought: here is my past year.
The highest SCALE number was 157.6 The lowest SCALE number was 151.2
This is a 6.4lb difference top to bottom
The highest trend weight was 156.5 The lowest trend weight was 153.1
This is a 3.4lb difference top to bottom.
What degree of variation do you think YOU should be willing to accept in order to call your maintenance successful as opposed to either overly restrictive or yo-yo dieting?
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CarvedTones wrote: »
But it isn't about this one walk. If over time you are losing weight, you are not eating enough. I think you know that.
Also, I don't know how your watch works. I know with my Fitbit, the calorie adjustment is not just exercise. Your watch may be different.4 -
OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.2 -
CarvedTones wrote: »
Long duration, low burn activities are badly skewed as they are gross not net estimates, using the formula above gives you estimated net cals.
I actually agree with @kimny72 though.
Switch to the TDEE method - your walking is regular, you like a set goal, just one estimate to worry about (hopefully less worried than you are now).
If you suspect your calories are depressed due to AT then you won't fix it until you relax a little and eat enough.11 -
psychod787 wrote: »OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.
I certainly appreciate that. My post was not generic advice. It was specifically a reply to the OP, and taking into consideration his previous history of posts here.18 -
psychod787 wrote: »OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.
I certainly appreciate that. My post was not generic advice. It was specifically a reply to the OP, and taking into consideration his previous history of posts here.
And anyone who has lost weight knows that there are transition phases. Different jobs, different activities.
Jump on a body weight scale daily, record the weight. Once you're in maintenance, you have data! It's not rocket surgery to tweak here and there a little bit if results are going the wrong way. It isn't going to be several hundreds of calories over the long term. Maintenance sorts all this out really quickly, to be honest. It shouldn't take more than three months to dial it in.
Adaptive thermogenesis will straighten out quite quickly, it isn't going to take years to figure it out. 1-3 months, tops. He isn't going to gain ten pounds in a month. Maintenance is a range - always will be.
Also, this:If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day
No.
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cmriverside wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.
I certainly appreciate that. My post was not generic advice. It was specifically a reply to the OP, and taking into consideration his previous history of posts here.
And anyone who has lost weight knows that there are transition phases. Different jobs, different activities.
Jump on a body weight scale daily, record the weight. Once you're in maintenance, you have data! It's not rocket surgery to tweak here and there a little bit if results are going the wrong way. It isn't going to be several hundreds of calories over the long term. Maintenance sorts all this out really quickly, to be honest. It shouldn't take more than three months to dial it in.
Adaptive thermogenesis will straighten out quite quickly, it isn't going to take years to figure it out. 1-3 months, tops. He isn't going to gain ten pounds in a month. Maintenance is a range - always will be.
Also, this:If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day
No.
Hey I can admit if I am wrong. Obviously by the number of post you have, you have been at this longer than I have, but how does AT straighten out? Most of the research I have read states that AT last as long as you are in a weight reduced state? Even after weight regain? Maybe my reading is wrong, but muscle adaptation last for years. Now, from what I read, over a certain MET/WATT, these adaptions even out a bit. When changing macros, do we not have to take in the TEF of food, also the cost of storage and usage? Please educate me! I really mean this! I love to learn! If the reading I have been doing is wrong, please point me in the right direction.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »
Most of the research I have read states that AT last as long as you are in a weight reduced state? Even after weight regain? Maybe my reading is wrong, but muscle adaptation last for years. Now, from what I read, over a certain MET/WATT, these adaptions even out a bit. When changing macros, do we not have to take in the TEF of food, also the cost of storage and usage? Please educate me! I really mean this! I love to learn! If the reading I have been doing is wrong, please point me in the right direction.
If I can add my experience....
I found my maintenance calories within a few weeks but after 2 - 3 months I suddenly started losing again and had to bump my calories up.
AT isn't just hormonal/physiological - it's also behavioural. When you are calorie restricted you unconsciously save energy. You fidget less, move less, make different choices (TV instead of gardening etc), your exercise is less energetic. When you are fully fuelled that reverses.
Don't know what you mean by "muscle adaptation"?
TEF is already taken account of in calories stated for foods.10 -
psychod787 wrote: »
Most of the research I have read states that AT last as long as you are in a weight reduced state? Even after weight regain? Maybe my reading is wrong, but muscle adaptation last for years. Now, from what I read, over a certain MET/WATT, these adaptions even out a bit. When changing macros, do we not have to take in the TEF of food, also the cost of storage and usage? Please educate me! I really mean this! I love to learn! If the reading I have been doing is wrong, please point me in the right direction.
If I can add my experience....
I found my maintenance calories within a few weeks but after 2 - 3 months I suddenly started losing again and had to bump my calories up.
AT isn't just hormonal/physiological - it's also behavioural. When you are calorie restricted you unconsciously save energy. You fidget less, move less, make different choices (TV instead of gardening etc), your exercise is less energetic. When you are fully fuelled that reverses.
Don't know what you mean by "muscle adaptation"?
TEF is already taken account of in calories stated for foods.
NEAT Returns is what you mention. Yes some people do have neat return. That's why people who "succeed"at maintenance generally increase PA. I have read that people have greater muscle efficiency caused by possible hormonal or neurological changes. Now that will increase after a certain WATT or METT, but at low movement speed we have less caloric muscle burns beyond what would be expected for % of body weight loss. So, when I read the package of the fresh chicken breast I buy, and it says 8gms Protein and I use that to count my calories, the 25% TEF is taken out. Even though I count it as 32 cals?0 -
psychod787 wrote: »OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.
I certainly appreciate that. My post was not generic advice. It was specifically a reply to the OP, and taking into consideration his previous history of posts here.
You know, I am standing right here...
But you are correct. I have anxiety over increasing calories. I increased them for a few days and then had a spike up and backed off again. I am going to go a little higher on my base and log exercise better and see what happens. I really do get apprehensive about eating over 2000 calories.8 -
CarvedTones wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »OP, this is just my non expert opinion, but you are trying to get every variable on point and that isn't humanly possible, in an effort to make sure you don't gain weight back. So you are underestimating, and stressing over every number.
I have been maintaining for @ 2 years. I have no idea if my fitbit adjustment is accurate or not and I don't care. My calorie goal is the same every day and my weight is staying within my 5 lb range. If I go on a long hike or do something else out of the ordinary I'll eat a bit more, but I'm not doing anything stressful enough I have to worry about the subtle day to day activity differences, so I don't. I would suggest you look at the average calories you've eaten over the last several weeks, add a couple hundred calories and just eat that amount every day. If your weight doesn't stabilize, add more calories.
I really do think it will help you with the mental aspect if you get out of the weeds and just focus on getting one number right - calories. Keep it simple. Find the balance there.
Kimny72,
I think many of us who lost aloottt of weight have the same fear. I know more now than most trainers/ some weight loss "specialist" doctors. Hell, I think most people on here know more! Truth is, hard statistics help some of us. I have a job that could be considered "lightly" active. Average about 5 hours out of a 12 hour day sitting, with about 7500-8000 steps a day. I have made my job truly "active" 11 out of 12 hours on my feet and 12000 steps a day at work. Knowing how many steps a probably burn a mile and extra calories burned from not sitting matter. If I get the "dreaded" true desk job, my tdee's will change by several hundred calories a day. If I change my protein intake to more carbs, or fats. Or more fats less carbs, my tdee can change by 2-300 a day. I am glad that just "doing" works for you, but some us detailed/Mildly CDO people can't, or at-least in the beginning.
I certainly appreciate that. My post was not generic advice. It was specifically a reply to the OP, and taking into consideration his previous history of posts here.
You know, I am standing right here...
But you are correct. I have anxiety over increasing calories. I increased them for a few days and then had a spike up and backed off again. I am going to go a little higher on my base and log exercise better and see what happens. I really do get apprehensive about eating over 2000 calories.
I understand what you're going through. I am female, 111, and 5'5 and have to eat 2100-2200 with exercise to maintain so FAR. If I still lose I'll have to bump up my calories. Don't be afraid, if you find yourself gaining, you won't gain by much. It'll be very easy to fix.5 -
OK, I ate 2132 calories today. I did not take a long walk today, but I paddled my SUP for a couple of hours (not non-stop; I logged 90 minutes). I upped my base to 1700.10
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Don't you dare weigh tomorrow! ;-)
Or did you eat more sodium than average day has. Most would merely by eating more.7
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