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"No calorie-counting needed, just "eat intuitively" folks!"

124

Replies

  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,871 Member
    Francl27 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Intuitive eating does work for some people.

    i get that it is harder to lose weight that way because you are deliberately changing your eating habits.

    But many people are healthy weight and do not get overweight and they do not count calories or do any other form of deliberate control to stay that way.

    Exactly. Intuitive eating works for people who have no weight issue - that's how they maintain their weight!

    For people who have weight issues, it's NEVER going to work - the fact that we're underweight/overweight itself shows that we don't know how to eat intuitively.

    I mean, sure, we can try and focus more on our hunger signals, but when people mistake hunger with cravings, well... that's not going to work either.

    I can't lose weight without feeling hungry at least 3 hours a day, for example. If I eat intuitively, I'll just end up gaining weight back.

    I think we've become afraid to feel hungry, or convince ourselves that if we ever get hungry we're doing something 'wrong.' I'm not sure when a grumbly tummy became the harbinger of impending doom. No, one shouldn't feel ready to gnaw one's own arm off for hours every day, but feeling a bit peckish for an hour or two before the next meal is completely normal (for me anyway).
  • zyxst
    zyxst Posts: 9,149 Member
    pinuplove wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Intuitive eating does work for some people.

    i get that it is harder to lose weight that way because you are deliberately changing your eating habits.

    But many people are healthy weight and do not get overweight and they do not count calories or do any other form of deliberate control to stay that way.

    Exactly. Intuitive eating works for people who have no weight issue - that's how they maintain their weight!

    For people who have weight issues, it's NEVER going to work - the fact that we're underweight/overweight itself shows that we don't know how to eat intuitively.

    I mean, sure, we can try and focus more on our hunger signals, but when people mistake hunger with cravings, well... that's not going to work either.

    I can't lose weight without feeling hungry at least 3 hours a day, for example. If I eat intuitively, I'll just end up gaining weight back.

    I think we've become afraid to feel hungry, or convince ourselves that if we ever get hungry we're doing something 'wrong.' I'm not sure when a grumbly tummy became the harbinger of impending doom. No, one shouldn't feel ready to gnaw one's own arm off for hours every day, but feeling a bit peckish for an hour or two before the next meal is completely normal (for me anyway).

    Normal for you, not for everyone else.

    When my "grumbly tummy" happens, it's my body saying "Oh hey, might want to get some food or the back pain and fainting are on next." Those issues come up when I've ignored my "grumbly tummy" for 30 minutes minimum. Yes, I know what "real hunger" is outside of medical fasting/prep diets.
  • Crafty_camper123
    Crafty_camper123 Posts: 1,440 Member
    @pinuplove I feel the same way. But, it took me a while to realize that being a little hungry throughout the day isn't a bad thing. And if I feel ravenous I'm going to be ok. Actually, it took me buying a blood glucose monitor to make me realize that while I'm uncomfortable, I'm not actually gonna die, lol.

    It's what spurred me to begin calorie counting again. My hunger signals were crazy and I wanted to be sure I wasn't undereating and/or could eat what my body was telling me it wanted. Admittedly, even while I was only eating based off of hunger cues I was still calorie aware. My body is not going to intuitively know I've had 80 calories of bread vs a 120 cal.. Or a 150cal can of regular soda vs a 0 calorie can of diet soda. I am wondering though, do some people not know they're eaten too much food(volume)? I know I have every time. I feel bloated, gassy, heart burney, and sometimes sick. Eating too much and not listening to my body when it tells me it's full is partially what got me overweight. I would ignore the "that's enough" signal, and keep eating because the food tasted good. The first month or two I simply stopped at the first or second "full pang", and my weight started drifting down. I can definatly understand the body being in a constant state of hunger though, and how that can mess up eating intuitively. I also understand that some things are suprisingly high in calories and won't nesscarily leave you feeling any more or less full then other things.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    pinuplove wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Intuitive eating does work for some people.

    i get that it is harder to lose weight that way because you are deliberately changing your eating habits.

    But many people are healthy weight and do not get overweight and they do not count calories or do any other form of deliberate control to stay that way.

    Exactly. Intuitive eating works for people who have no weight issue - that's how they maintain their weight!

    For people who have weight issues, it's NEVER going to work - the fact that we're underweight/overweight itself shows that we don't know how to eat intuitively.

    I mean, sure, we can try and focus more on our hunger signals, but when people mistake hunger with cravings, well... that's not going to work either.

    I can't lose weight without feeling hungry at least 3 hours a day, for example. If I eat intuitively, I'll just end up gaining weight back.

    I think we've become afraid to feel hungry, or convince ourselves that if we ever get hungry we're doing something 'wrong.' I'm not sure when a grumbly tummy became the harbinger of impending doom. No, one shouldn't feel ready to gnaw one's own arm off for hours every day, but feeling a bit peckish for an hour or two before the next meal is completely normal (for me anyway).

    I have never really been overweight because I made peace with hunger when I was younger and I don't hit the panic button if my tummy is empty. I wrestled in high school and had to cut serious weight from an already lean frame (it was not uncommon to cut 10% of my body weight over a few days) and at times would go several days without eating. My life went on, I still went to school, I still practiced for several hours, and I didn't die. Also, I went long stretches of eating very little food (and very bad food) in the military while engaging in extremely rigorous physical activity and survived.

    So I have a comfort zone in deprivation, I can walk around hungry if necessary (I generally don't because it isn't necessary), and while I really enjoy food, I don't need to "treat myself" and reward myself with food. That is a completely different mentality than most people have developed over the past 50 years.
  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,871 Member
    zyxst wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Intuitive eating does work for some people.

    i get that it is harder to lose weight that way because you are deliberately changing your eating habits.

    But many people are healthy weight and do not get overweight and they do not count calories or do any other form of deliberate control to stay that way.

    Exactly. Intuitive eating works for people who have no weight issue - that's how they maintain their weight!

    For people who have weight issues, it's NEVER going to work - the fact that we're underweight/overweight itself shows that we don't know how to eat intuitively.

    I mean, sure, we can try and focus more on our hunger signals, but when people mistake hunger with cravings, well... that's not going to work either.

    I can't lose weight without feeling hungry at least 3 hours a day, for example. If I eat intuitively, I'll just end up gaining weight back.

    I think we've become afraid to feel hungry, or convince ourselves that if we ever get hungry we're doing something 'wrong.' I'm not sure when a grumbly tummy became the harbinger of impending doom. No, one shouldn't feel ready to gnaw one's own arm off for hours every day, but feeling a bit peckish for an hour or two before the next meal is completely normal (for me anyway).

    Normal for you, not for everyone else.

    When my "grumbly tummy" happens, it's my body saying "Oh hey, might want to get some food or the back pain and fainting are on next." Those issues come up when I've ignored my "grumbly tummy" for 30 minutes minimum. Yes, I know what "real hunger" is outside of medical fasting/prep diets.

    Certainly not normal for everyone, and I didn't mean to imply that :smile: I've never had blood sugar issues (highs or lows) so feeling a bit hungry isn't a sign of worse things to come for me. Or I would guess the majority of people.
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
    Crafty_camper123 wrote: »
    I am wondering though, do some people not know they're eaten too much food(volume)? I know I have every time. I feel bloated, gassy, heart burney, and sometimes sick. Eating too much and not listening to my body when it tells me it's full is partially what got me overweight. I would ignore the "that's enough" signal, and keep eating because the food tasted good. The first month or two I simply stopped at the first or second "full pang", and my weight started drifting down. I can definatly understand the body being in a constant state of hunger though, and how that can mess up eating intuitively. I also understand that some things are suprisingly high in calories and won't nesscarily leave you feeling any more or less full then other things.

    It can really take a lot of food for me to feel that I've eaten too much. And honestly it really completely depends on hormones too. Some days I can eat something and still be hungry, even though it would have filled me up a week earlier.

    Heck, I'm not even sure that people who stay slim actually eat intuitively. The people I know who maintain a healthy weight effortlessly 1) are very active, 2) are busy and often end up skipping lunch (but are still hungry), 3) eat lighter for dinner or the next day if they eat too much at a meal, or avoid treats for a bit if they gained a bit of weight... that's not intuitive eating - that's having a high maintenance, or making decisions based on what you've eaten before. Nothing to do with intuition.
  • Crafty_camper123
    Crafty_camper123 Posts: 1,440 Member
    @Franci27 I get that. My hunger can vary and satiety levels can vary as well. Some days I'm happy on low food volume, other days not so much. I am discovering that I'm not as much of a volume eater as I thought I would be. I can usually have a small portion of calorie dense food and be happy for several hours. So long as protein and fat make up a bulk of the calories that is. Not to say I don't have bottomless pit days where I cant seem to get enough to eat. I still get those and they make it a challenge to listen to my body and eat accordingly.

    I feel like we should be replacing the word "intuitive" with the word "mindful". The word mindful means to me that one should make a conscious effort to be aware of their hunger signals & satiety cues. They would also be aware to balance high calorie meals with lower calorie ones even if they aren't counting them per se. Or if they overate now to eat less later, or work out more or something to that effect. (Like your friends you mentioned). I think some people have an easier time with that mindset then others. It takes habit, knowledge, and discipline to eat mindfully. It also takes awareness of portions and calories. The word "intuitive" would imply that one just comes by it naturally. They don't ever have to think about how they feel when they eat, or how many calories they are consuming. They just do it automatically. I'm guessing people like that are the minority.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,173 Member
    I don't personally feel hungry often (or even appetite-y) even on a mild to moderate calorie deficit. But intuition fails me at the middle and the other end of the eating: Unfettered, I'll over-emphasize certain calorie dense foods (cheese is one example), and I'll keep eating until overstuffed, because food is tasty and I want more (even well after I'm full enough for contentment). Sensory-specific satiety is a demon, besides.

    So, I need something other than intuition to put on the brakes. Arithmetic works.

    Occasionally, I'll feel crave-y when bored, but that's easy to fix in other ways. If I actually start feeling stomach twinges, I'll normally eat something (small but nutritious), because being very hungry at the start of a meal makes me less effective at moderating quantities.

    Not everyone needs to be hungry in order to stay at reasonable calories; as others have said, it's individual.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    For me, hunger is based on what foods I eat.

    If my diet is animal based, and I limit my plants, I will not often overeat.

    If I include more carbs, especially refined and highly processed foods, eating intuitively or mindfully flies out the window.
  • hesn92
    hesn92 Posts: 5,966 Member
    Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »
    Humans have never been "intuitive eaters". Pre-agricultural era, they ate whatever they could scavenge or kill in as great of quantities as possible and hoped that this was enough to sustain them until the next time food was available. That is why we are so efficient at storing fat. Becoming advanced and affluent enough to have as much food as we wanted as often as we wanted has lead to the US currently suffering from being over 2/3rds overweight or obese. Relying on our intuition has proven a disastrous strategy for most of us.

    This Is my opinion as well. I find it interesting how people are different though. Some people can eat what and how much they want without thinking about it and maintain a healthy weight whereas a lot of people can’t. Similar to my dog. If you put food in her bowl she will eat every bit of it, no matter how often or how much you put in there. The dog we had before her was the opposite, you could keep her bowl full at all times and she would come by and have a little bit here and there as she got hungry.
  • Cate4035
    Cate4035 Posts: 19 Member
    Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »
    Disclaimer: I love Fitness Blender for their free workout videos. I've been doing them for over two years and still going strong. Their fun, fast strength training workouts have been a huge help in reshaping my body as I get leaner.

    However....

    The anti-calorie-counting is strong with them. In their latest article (https://fitnessblender.com/articles/not-seeing-results-5-common-weight-loss-methods-that-might-be-sabotaging-your-progress) this is what they say about it as one of the "methods that might be sabotaging your progress":

    1) Counting calories or using a meal tracking app
    Embrace a plant based diet, and fill up on unlimited plants. Remove processed foods from your diet and focus on fresh vegetables, fruits, whole grains, nuts, and lean meats (or vegetarian/vegan equivalent). Eat mindfully. When you’re hungry, eat, and learn to recognize your body’s signals of feeling full; stop before you feel discomfort. Drink lots of water. Don’t waste time looking for shortcuts; eat for good health. Once you know what a healthy diet looks like, funnel your effort and energy towards making the right choices, not necessarily towards tracking them. A helpful read: How to stop dieting and learn to eat intuitively

    And later (again in regards to calorie counting):

    (...) focus on eating for good health, for energy and to feel good. If you are making smart food choices and listening to your body’s hunger and full signals, it’s typically not necessary to count or restrict calories, track every macro every day, eliminate entire food groups, or follow any other generally strict diet that has a lot of rigid "rules".

    And...

    (...) the end goal of any diet or exercise program should be something that empowers you to move through your life healthily and naturally, not indefinitely tethering you to tedious habits and inflexible rules.

    Edit to add my opinion: In my view, "eating a healthy diet" might not be enough for maintaining my weight-loss. I know that if I don't log and track what I eat I very easily wind up eating too much of good things. I also get in this mindset where I feel guilty about every snack or treat, whereas if I'm tracking I know I can "afford" it so there's no guilt. However, I am attracted to the idea that one day I might be able to just wing it and not have to track....

    What's your take?

  • Cate4035
    Cate4035 Posts: 19 Member
    That’s exactly what works for me. I tried to eat paleo, but resigned to clean eating (avoiding processed foods, no pasta or bread, more veggies, reading the ingredients in EVERYTHING...) and exercising 4 times a week. I’m down over 37lbs. It may not work for everyone, but I highly encourage giving it a try.
  • Candyspun
    Candyspun Posts: 370 Member
    I personally like to eat intuitively, but also track it and run a deficit. So, if I'm not hungry, I won't eat until I am. When I do eat, I track it. I listen to my body when I'm choosing what to eat. I stop eating when I'm full. But I always make sure I eat enough, so at the end of the day, if I have calories remaining, then it's not quite so intuitive sometimes. I'll try to choose something that will agree with me, but if it gets to that stage, getting enough calories is more important to me than being intuitive.
  • fitnessfreddie
    fitnessfreddie Posts: 74 Member
    We all started eating intuitively at some point and here we are. I feel the problem lies within ease of access to poor foods and no one has "time". In 2018 we're all guilty of poor time management which reduces the chances of exercising, meal prepping, grocery shopping or any other activity you never get around to. People work more hours, have children, commute longer distances, and travel for work, which causes us to eat on the go. There aren't too many healthy on the go options. They're there, don't get me wrong, but so are Whoppers. With the amount of processed foods, sugars and other carbs that we consume daily our brains scream for the Whopper over the salad with olive oil and vinegar. Calorie counting is a must and it must be done with discipline and integrity. Plenty of people guesstimate the portion size of something. I'm the guiltiest victim, I always thought i was using a Tbsp of oil until I actually measured it out and was going over quite a bit. Eat what you want, track it properly, eat at a deficit and barring any severe medical conditions, you'll see results.
  • VUA21
    VUA21 Posts: 2,072 Member
    KickassAmazon76 wrote: »
    when I'm PMSing... I Intuitively want to eat 14 donuts, 3 bags of chips and a crap tonne of salsa / sour cream.

    I don't think I intuit very well.

    Maybe my intuit is broken?

    This also applies... when I'm emotionally frustrated, angry, celebrating, sad, depressed...

    and maybe also when I'm breathing, awake, sleeping... oh, and also when my kids have leftovers... that's when practicality and "starving kids in africa" mentality sneaks in.


    ok ok... my entire consciousness is screaming for too much food.
    nope.. intuit is not an advisable method for me.

    Good for those who can do it, though!

    Wow, that's all you want while PMSing? I want all of that plus 6 toblerones, a gallon of Hagen Daas Vanilla, 1/2 a cheesecake and a Brooklyn style "works" pizza!!!

    I think my intuit is living in an country with no extradition laws (that jerk!) drinking sangria's on the beach.
  • Diatonic12
    Diatonic12 Posts: 32,344 Member
    I can be intuitively and mindfully a nitwit when it comes to my internal metabolic cues. I messed those up from too much nitwittery and dieting. I don't know if they'll ever come back. At this particular time, they have not. Until such time, I keep tooling along with MFP. The joint keeps hoppin' with success the way it's established and I'm not about to change a winning game now.
  • fraukazi
    fraukazi Posts: 614 Member
    KickassAmazon76 wrote: »
    when I'm PMSing... I Intuitively want to eat 14 donuts, 3 bags of chips and a crap tonne of salsa / sour cream.

    I don't think I intuit very well.

    Maybe my intuit is broken?

    This also applies... when I'm emotionally frustrated, angry, celebrating, sad, depressed...

    and maybe also when I'm breathing, awake, sleeping... oh, and also when my kids have leftovers... that's when practicality and "starving kids in africa" mentality sneaks in.


    ok ok... my entire consciousness is screaming for too much food.
    nope.. intuit is not an advisable method for me.

    Good for those who can do it, though!

    hahaha absolutely this!
  • Candyspun
    Candyspun Posts: 370 Member
    I think it depends on what ‘intuitive’ means to you. My intuition tells me to make healthy choices; if I make unhealthy choices, it’s because I’ve deliberately ignored my intuition. For example, I’m mildly lactose intolerant. My intuition always screams at me not to eat dairy because I will pay for it later. But I sometimes ignore that, eat the dairy and pay for it later.

    I don’t necessarily see intuition as doing whatever you feel like, but others might see it differently.
  • kpsyche
    kpsyche Posts: 345 Member
    woelfi22 wrote: »
    When you're overweight the brain becomes resistent to leptin. Leptin is the hormon that signals the brain to stop eating. That's why overweight people never feel full. When I started my diet I was a bit overweight and hat no problem to eat a burger, chips and a small chocolate cake for one meal. That felt normal. Now that I lost quite a bit of weight an got used to healthier eating habits I'm not able to eat that much at once any more. I tried yesterday for a cheatmeal and failed to even eat the whole burger. There was no way to squeeze in a chocolate cake afterwards.

    Next thing I learned is that fresh veggies with low-fat cream cheese and lean meat worth 300 calories is a damn lot of food and really filling.

    So I think there is some truth to the whole thing, but if you are overweight and only pick out the "eat as much as feels right" part of it, you will fail miserably.
    Once your leptin - ghrelin - insulin system works again and you really eat fresh and lean foods, you can maintain your weight this way. But you will not loose weight I think, as this is not something the body wants. We are evolutionary wired to keep our weight or gain more.

    There is probably some truth in this

    From https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031938414001826

    However, most individuals with diet-induced obesity (DIO) develop leptin resistance, which is characterized by elevated circulating leptin levels and decreased leptin sensitivity.

    Decreased leptin sensitivity means that the individual is less able to detect that they are satiated and therefore eat more. So, according to that study at least, obese people are not able to eat "intuitively"; at least until they lose weight and improve their leptin sensitivity
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    kintleko wrote: »
    This is an unpopular opinion, but intuitive eating works better than counting calories for me. I have become sensitive to how I feel as I eat and after I eat. I use this feeling to guide me, and this made a huge difference on whether I finish the whole entree or get a box to take the rest home, for example. I have to tell myself - "Ok I'm full now, time to stop and enjoy the rest later."

    This whole debate may depend on the food choices we make, because intuitive eating stops working if I eat a lot of processed food (it just doesn't fill me up!) For example, I can eat multiple donuts before feeling the sensation of fullness, but one big apple and I already begin to feel myself filling up (at least a little!) I have to be honest with myself about lack of willpower to stop eating some highly palatable foods because they don't impact satiety like whole foods in my experience.

    Processed foods un-link the sensation of fullness from eating for me, so I factor this into my eating and have been able to control my weight fairly easily for many years, without the hassle inherent to calorie tracking.

    Your bolded is very true for me.

    I eat certain foods and suddenly I have what some people might call a lack of self control. With only those foods. And nothing else... except maybe books. But then I change my diet and exclude certain foods, and suddenly I can eat intuitively and lose or maintain with ease.

    YMMV
  • jheye
    jheye Posts: 36 Member
    One of the things I am trying to work on right now is paying attention to signals of hunger and satiety. When I eat a lot of processed foods, I ALWAYS feel hungry, even when I am starting to feel full. By focusing on better food choices I am able to recognize when I'm satiated, and I don't feel the same driving hunger. I think that's probably why they are emphasizing food choice over tracking calories.

    At this point, just gaining control of my appetite is allowing me to lose at a rate of about 1 lbs per week. As my weight drops I may need to track more closely, but right now I'm focusing my energy on choosing and preparing healthy meals rather than tracking calories and macros. As my food choices become more automatic, I'll have the time to focus on tracking if I need to.
  • cbohling1987
    cbohling1987 Posts: 99 Member
    The "intuitive eating" movement seems to be good for a lot of people who have undereating disorders, from my experience observing others, in the sense that they oftentimes had obsessive calorie counting turn into a full-blown disorder and they need to get out of that mindset.

    For chronic overeaters this usually doesn't work.

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