Apple Watch or Fitbit?!?
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Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage.
I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.0 -
Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage. I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.
i typed " i dont even consider a walk an exercise " but deleted it lol
but i guess the problem still remains, since the OP suggest that her husband went for a jog, which i assume will be faster than 3mph and it didnt register. so wonder what thats about
LOL. And I'm always shocked when my Watch gives me exercise credit for my regular walking part of my commute, and when I walk to an appointment, and I'm thinking "but I didn't exercise?"
But for the husband... well, if it's like my ex who insisted that he was jogging at 3 MPH...
I'd want to see what the actual workout data looked like for that one, and what the mileage covered in that time was. There are certainly quirks, but I've never had a problem with my Series 2 not logging things that are legitimately exercise.
I'm 5'4", so I'm not quite buying that walking at 3 MPH counts as brisk because we're shorter. That extra inch that I've got doesn't make that much of a difference!
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collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
No that’s not it, because it doesn’t matter how fast I walk it still doesn’t give credit! I’m sorry but I’ve walked 3.8 miles in less then a hour with a HR in the upper 130’s sometimes lower 140’s and still only received a credit of a couple min. Even walking over 2 miles in 40 min should give more credit then 5 min.
My husband has the same issue with his. It doesn’t give credit and he walks very fast. Also doesn’t give credit for his runs.
If I was to put it in indoor mode and walk at 3mph for a hour on my treadmill it then gives me credit for every min also my calorie burn is also higher.
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collectingblues wrote: »Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage. I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.
I’m 5,3 and have short legs. Walking at 3mph IS a brisk walk for me. If I wasn’t putting in effort my heart rate wouldn’t be 65% to 75% of my max HR either.
So if I’m not actually putting in effort then why doesn’t my husbands register he can easily walk 3.5 mph that’s not brisk for him. So when he walks very fast and his heart rate is up it still doesn’t register. Doesn’t register his runs either and he’s full blown running.
Or the fact that my series 1 ALWAYS recorded my outdoor walks as exercise and I actually walk longer and harder.
Today I did a short walk because it’s 85 degrees outside and did walk slower then normal. But still walked at a pace of 3mph.
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Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »
Did u check to make sure u have the latest ios?collectingblues wrote: »Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage. I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.
I’m 5,3 and have short legs. Walking at 3mph IS a brisk walk for me. If I wasn’t putting in effort my heart rate wouldn’t be 65% to 75% of my max HR either.
So if I’m not actually putting in effort then why doesn’t my husbands register he can easily walk 3.5 mph that’s not brisk for him. So when he walks very fast and his heart rate is up it still doesn’t register. Doesn’t register his runs either and he’s full blown running.
Or the fact that my series 1 ALWAYS recorded my outdoor walks as exercise and I actually walk longer and harder.
Today I did a short walk because it’s 85 degrees outside and did walk slower then normal. But still walked at a pace of 3mph.
My phone and watch are both updated to the most current versions.
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collectingblues wrote: »Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage. I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.
I’m 5,3 and have short legs. Walking at 3mph IS a brisk walk for me. If I wasn’t putting in effort my heart rate wouldn’t be 65% to 75% of my max HR either.
So if I’m not actually putting in effort then why doesn’t my husbands register he can easily walk 3.5 mph that’s not brisk for him. So when he walks very fast and his heart rate is up it still doesn’t register. Doesn’t register his runs either and he’s full blown running.
Or the fact that my series 1 ALWAYS recorded my outdoor walks as exercise and I actually walk longer and harder.
Today I did a short walk because it’s 85 degrees outside and did walk slower then normal. But still walked at a pace of 3mph.
Again: I'd really want to see what your husband's data looks like to see if it's an error.
What several of us are saying here is that your experience does not match what we're getting from our Watches.
You can push your heart rate but not actually be getting a workout. Your heart rate just reflects your level of fitness, and how much work it has to do for a basic level of movement.
Apple has been clear that the Series 2 and Series 3 improved accuracy of calorie/exercise counting from Series 1. So Series 1 was probably giving you credit because it was working off of an older algorithm that wasn't as accurate.
I'm 5'4". One inch taller than you. I'm not tall. I still don't consider 3 MPH a brisk walk.
But go ahead. Complain about your Watch not giving you credit. Switch to the Fitbit, which is known to overestimate. And then be among the people who wonder why their Fitbit gives them so much credit, and that you can't trust exercise calories to eat back.
If that makes you feel better, then so be it.0 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Will_Workout_for_food wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »How fast are you walking, though? The Watch is only going to give you exercise credit if you're doing more than 3 MPH. So that's true that if it thinks/claims you're only doing 2.5 MPH that it's not going to give you exercise credit. What your heart rate is is really irrelevant to the distance that you're covering.
I know you say brisk, but brisk means different things to different people -- I used to date a guy who was *insistent* that 3.2 MPH was a "light jog" and I had to bite my tongue to not tell him that I walked faster than that.
Have you looked at a map, and seen what you actually cover in the time that you're out? That's going to be helpful to help you see whether it's an issue with the Watch, or if it's just that you walk slower than you think you do.
I know that is a concern that other people in other Apple forums and on Reddit have said. I think it's common to overestimate what you're doing, and it can be quite an awakening to see that no, you're not really "exercising" even if you did get out and walk.
But as for me... I have the Watch Series 2, and love it. It's waterproof, and it integrates with my iPhone, and I love all of the features. I've never had an issue with it underestimating exercise or not giving me credit for exercise.
A brisk walk is 3mph or the equivalent of a mile every 20 min. So in 44 min I walked 2.14 with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only gave me credit for 5 min.
So that's the thing -- you are just on the edge of what it considers exercise. It's giving you the calories, but it's not counting it as exercise because you're not consistently at that speed.
Your Watch is accurate. You're just not walking very fast.
that seems to be it honestly.
That was why I asked for the actual mileage. I had a feeling this was one of those "perceived effort not being the actual effort" sort of deals.
It can be quite a shock to learn that what you think is a good workout is actually just accurate.
Like, for me -- I would *never* consider 3 MPH a "brisk" walk. To me, that's being slow.
I’m 5,3 and have short legs. Walking at 3mph IS a brisk walk for me. If I wasn’t putting in effort my heart rate wouldn’t be 65% to 75% of my max HR either.
So if I’m not actually putting in effort then why doesn’t my husbands register he can easily walk 3.5 mph that’s not brisk for him. So when he walks very fast and his heart rate is up it still doesn’t register. Doesn’t register his runs either and he’s full blown running.
Or the fact that my series 1 ALWAYS recorded my outdoor walks as exercise and I actually walk longer and harder.
Today I did a short walk because it’s 85 degrees outside and did walk slower then normal. But still walked at a pace of 3mph.
Again: I'd really want to see what your husband's data looks like to see if it's an error.
What several of us are saying here is that your experience does not match what we're getting from our Watches.
You can push your heart rate but not actually be getting a workout. Your heart rate just reflects your level of fitness, and how much work it has to do for a basic level of movement.
Apple has been clear that the Series 2 and Series 3 improved accuracy of calorie/exercise counting from Series 1. So Series 1 was probably giving you credit because it was working off of an older algorithm that wasn't as accurate.
I'm 5'4". One inch taller than you. I'm not tall. I still don't consider 3 MPH a brisk walk.
But go ahead. Complain about your Watch not giving you credit. Switch to the Fitbit, which is known to overestimate. And then be among the people who wonder why their Fitbit gives them so much credit, and that you can't trust exercise calories to eat back.
If that makes you feel better, then so be it.
So why does it give credit for exercise walking at 3mph on a treadmill but not 3mph on a outdoor walk?
My husband doesn’t even use his Apple Watch anymore because he said it’s pointless. He doesn’t need to lose weight he’s 6’4 and 170. He walks and runs for the health benefits.
My thing is even if I walk close to 4mph which is extremely hard for me as I feel like I should be jogging not walking it still won’t register. That’s what I’m trying to say? It doesn’t matter how fast I walk it just won’t count.
It also registers swimming and when I use the elliptical.
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If you tell it that you're using the elliptical, swimming, and the treadmill, it clearly knows that you're exercising. It's not believing that you're exercising based on your walking speed outdoors.
Here's my day, so far. I didn't tell it I was exercising. I have a Series 2. I am practically your height. The difference is that I walk at a speed that it considers exercise.
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collectingblues wrote: »If you tell it that you're using the elliptical, swimming, and the treadmill, it clearly knows that you're exercising. It's not believing that you're exercising based on your walking speed outdoors.
Here's my day, so far. I didn't tell it I was exercising. I have a Series 2. I am practically your height. The difference is that I walk at a speed that it considers exercise.
Ok well I’ll go on a 3.5 to 4mph walk and then show that it still won’t register it. Like I said doesn’t matter how fast or slow I walk it still don’t.
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Honestly the simplest answer is that you’re not exerting yourself as much as you think.1
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My move calories and stand calories are off because I forgot to charge my watch last night so I didn’t put it on until 15 min before I went on my walk. But still I walked 2.14 miles in 44 min with a average heart rate of 130 and it still only registered 5 min.
For those having ^ this issue with the Watch, try a soft reset. If that doesn’t work disconnect from your iPhone and re-pair it again. Sometimes when an update comes out either with the Watch or the phone it can be corrupt. Usually going through the setup process again will fix it.
That is definitely not normal for any Apple Watch. I’ve had every Apple Watch and currently use the Apple Watch series 3 with GPS & LTE and never once had an issue like the one you are seeing.
I have not used the actual workout app to track a walking workout in a while, because I find that both the step and miles come out the same whether I use the workout app to track the walk or not. Yesterday I walked 3 miles to the post office and back. My Watch registered 6 miles and gave me credit for doing 78 minutes of exercise. I would have received the same numbers using the workout app. Only difference is no split times are given and no map for the walk.
If a reset doesn’t work, take your Watch into an Apple store and get them to trouble shoot it for you.0 -
change4char wrote: »I have a Fitbit Versa and I love it (I've had multiple Fitbit's). I am not an Apple user, so I can't compare, and I also do not need a traditional smart watch. The steps, hr, and active minutes are accurate for me, but the calorie burn does overestimate. I also like that I only need to charge it every 3 or 4 nights, unlike a real smart watch.
I have the Apple Watch series 3 with GPS & LTE, and consistently get 3 days on a full charge. The Smart Watch still has 7-10 % charge left at the end of day 3.
Here is a recent screenshot showing the time I last got as well as the remaining battery percentage left before I put it on the charger. Sometimes I’ll use the Watch more for calls and emails, but still manage to go 2 full days on a charge.
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Ok so I received a response from Apple and they wanted me to do a test with the watch. They asked me to set the watch in outdoor walk mode and walk on the treadmill for 20 min at 3mph. I walked for 20 min at 3.7mph with a HR of 140 and it gave a credit for 2 min of exercise. So I sent the info over to Apple and they agreed something was wrong with the watch. He said that in outdoor mode it determines exercise by walking at a speed of 2.5mph with a heart rate at 50% of your max heart rate. He believes my calibration is messed up on the watch as it’s also not recognizing the distance I’m walking correctly. Told me to take it to the nearest Apple store and they would swap it out. Well I didn’t feel like driving over a hour so I just went and bought a Nike series 3 from Best Buy, because if the new one still did it then I could just return it. Well guess what, I walked outside in outdoor walk mode between 2.5 to 3mph with a heart rate of 119 for 25 min and it credited me every single minute.
It was the watch, problem solved.2 -
That was after walking at 3mph for 44 min and again at 3.7mph for 20 min. 7 min total of exercise.
This is after getting my new watch and walking at probably 2.5 to 3mph it credited me for the entire time I walked.
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I'm glad they were able to help you!0
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I had a Fitbit and I killed 3 of them. Garmin all the way!!0
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To anyone who has a Apple Watch and experiences not being credited you exercise minutes when selecting outdoor walk, just know it is a calibration issue with some of the watchs, mainly series 2. Apple confirmed this to me yesterday and I bought a series 3 and it works as it should. Apple told me that the watch picks up and automatically gives credit in the move and exercise ring when it detects waking of 2.5 mph or more OR a elevated heart rate of at least 50% of your max heart rate. BUT when you select the outdoor walk setting your telling your watch your exercising and it should automatically give credit for the minutes walked regardless how fast your walking or how high your heart rate is. It will adjust calories burned according to your heart rate. Apple said it wouldn’t be right for the watch to only give credit if your walking at 3mph or more as some people have a limitation and can’t walk at a brisk pace.
I myself have a health issues one being Crohns and the other a heart condition. I’m not allowed to let my heart rate get higher then 145bpm. So I am limited on what I can do. So walking at 3 to 3.5mph for a hour or more a day may not seem like much to some, but for MY body it’s the healthy option. I do also use my elliptical and just monitor my heart rate closely. I also do some strength training as well. I lost over 40 pounds last year by doing everything I’m doing now. I don’t exercise to loose weight, I do it for the cardiovascular benefits. I lose weight by watching what I eat daily. I also don’t eat back most of my exercise calories back.0 -
Ok so I received a response from Apple and they wanted me to do a test with the watch. They asked me to set the watch in outdoor walk mode and walk on the treadmill for 20 min at 3mph. I walked for 20 min at 3.7mph with a HR of 140 and it gave a credit for 2 min of exercise. So I sent the info over to Apple and they agreed something was wrong with the watch. He said that in outdoor mode it determines exercise by walking at a speed of 2.5mph with a heart rate at 50% of your max heart rate. He believes my calibration is messed up on the watch as it’s also not recognizing the distance I’m walking correctly. Told me to take it to the nearest Apple store and they would swap it out. Well I didn’t feel like driving over a hour so I just went and bought a Nike series 3 from Best Buy, because if the new one still did it then I could just return it. Well guess what, I walked outside in outdoor walk mode between 2.5 to 3mph with a heart rate of 119 for 25 min and it credited me every single minute.
It was the watch, problem solved.
This is the most detailed info I've ever come across - they can be so secretive about how they calculate and it makes me nuts. It's a fitness watch that we wear for data, of course we would want to know the hows and whys.
Go swap out that old one and sell the replacement. The market for S2 is still very good.0 -
Hate this app, wrote a long message and hit the wrong done button, and it wiped out what I wrote.
Tracking cycling is a mess on the watch. If I pick outdoor cycling and go for a challenging mountain bike ride with a HR in the 160's I get very little calorie credit, like in the teens, with single digit yellow ring credit. Apple help was no help, but someone said the algorithm is triggered by arm movements, which is ridiculous for biking. I have to pick other instead to get credit, but I've been told that throws off the watch too. I have a series 3.
Walking I have no issues. When I walk my younger dog I get full credit that makes sense, and my older dog I get no credit for walks with her. But since we have to go slow, poor girl is getting up there, it's more for her benefit than mine. So I understand why that is.
The biking issue is BS since that is how I spend alot of my excercise on weekends. Also for indoor biking on the machine I have to pick other or I also get zero yellow ring or calorie credit. I have a series 3.0 -
The cycling preset would have the arm swing written out of its programming, so whoever said that is mistaken, but sounds like you might have a glitchy setting too. Are you in warranty or do you have Apple Care? You say they were no help but sometimes it's just a question of getting a different/right person.0
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