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Is requiring posting calories of menu items going to help reduce obesity?
Replies
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tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »So the answer to the title of this thread is NO?
I can see that if only the non obesity are reading the menu posted calorie info to make sure they do not become obese then the info is not likely to change obesity rates.
Thanks for sharing the article.
If the information was good for keeping the non-obese from becoming obese, it would have an impact on obesity rates. The overall obese population would continue to die at the same rate they're dying today, yet there would be fewer people joining the ranks of the obese over time. This would result in an overall reduction.
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tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.
I doubt we reflect the majority of society.
Heck, not even everyone here believes calories matter. You have the occasional person who says counting calories isn't necessary, just eat _______, or do ________, you don't need to count, track, measure, etc.3 -
tbright1965 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.
I doubt we reflect the majority of society.
Heck, not even everyone here believes calories matter. You have the occasional person who says counting calories isn't necessary, just eat _______, or do ________, you don't need to count, track, measure, etc.
I think most everyone here knows that calories do matter. But that is not the same thing as knowing that it's possible to maintain a healthy weight without actually counting them.1 -
tbright1965 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.
I doubt we reflect the majority of society.
Heck, not even everyone here believes calories matter. You have the occasional person who says counting calories isn't necessary, just eat _______, or do ________, you don't need to count, track, measure, etc.
MFP has ~19M users
Not sure how many users are in the US. US population is ~360M
At it's highest potential this impacts 5% of the US population.3 -
tbright1965 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.
I doubt we reflect the majority of society.
Heck, not even everyone here believes calories matter. You have the occasional person who says counting calories isn't necessary, just eat _______, or do ________, you don't need to count, track, measure, etc.
MFP has ~19M users
Not sure how many users are in the US. US population is ~360M
At it's highest potential this impacts 5% of the US population.
And that's total users. How many are actually active, as in having posted in the last week, month or year?
Just guessing, probably 19 million have signed up. Maybe 1.9 million actually are active. Just a gut feeling, I have no numbers to back up my impression.4 -
tbright1965 wrote: »tbright1965 wrote: »Only if people care about the number of calories they eat.
How many even understand how many they need, on average, to simply maintain?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/who-looks-at-menu-labels/383320/
Present company excluded?
zippo.
I doubt we reflect the majority of society.
Heck, not even everyone here believes calories matter. You have the occasional person who says counting calories isn't necessary, just eat _______, or do ________, you don't need to count, track, measure, etc.
I think most everyone here knows that calories do matter. But that is not the same thing as knowing that it's possible to maintain a healthy weight without actually counting them.
Other than Shouty Guy and the occasional member who has been deluded into thinking that something like a particular WOE overrides energy balance because of da insulin or da fasting.... I would agree with you.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
Is giving people access to information a good thing? I'm not sure what the debate is, it's up to the individual to make use of that data.6 -
I dont think posting calories will do anything for obesity rates. That said places that list their calories are probably be more likely to get people who are counting calories as customers. Personally speaking when I was calorie counting I appreciated places that listed calories and was more likely to choose to eat there. But if they didn't list the calories I would have gotten to my goal just the same.
I don't think people who aren't tracking calories actually benefit. Sure...they may choose the lower calorie item at the restaurant...but they aren't tracking so they will probably just eat more at home.1 -
As someone who lives in a country that doesn't require calorie labeling, I would say it would certainly be beneficial to me when counting calories to have labeling at restaurants (we don't even appear to require labeling at supermarkets, as some packaged foods do not seem to have them, but most due because they are made for distribution throughout Latin America). As it is now, I have to do a lot of guessing game to estimate my calories, and that brings a larger margin of error.
I do not believe it will radically alter the way everyone eats, but I know for me, and I assume others watching calories, it helps better make informed choices. Often the foods that we think are healthy or unhealthy are often misidentified, at least when it comes to their caloric content. When I am in the US, I do usually use the calorie information to make a "better" choice.
I think it's important for people to have an idea of what they are consuming. If they choose not to make any positive change with it, that's on them. But they should at least be given the information.8 -
I have looked at the calorie count of something I was going to order then chose something else with a lower count but I am paying attention to my calories. Salads are a good example. At Applebee's, the salads have outrageous amounts of calories compared to other items on the menu. I don't think the average person would notice or care. It is only helpful if you are concerned about calories.3
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I'm more curious to see if restaurants will start trying to making healthier food to get a better "score". On the other hand it really depends on those preparing the food to follow the right recipe. They are really just estimates anyway. I think what we eat out is only part of the problem as many have stated but as someone watching what I eat I look forward to seeing more calorie counts available.1
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4209007/
Statistically, the influence of labeling calories is "weak" or "inconsistent" at best. "The review ultimately...concluded that calorie labeling was not an effective way to reduce calories purchased or consumed"
There are also multiple studies out there regarding "vicarious goal fulfillment" where simply having healthier options on the menu causes people to actually order less-healthy options.1 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »I have looked at the calorie count of something I was going to order then chose something else with a lower count but I am paying attention to my calories. Salads are a good example. At Applebee's, the salads have outrageous amounts of calories compared to other items on the menu. I don't think the average person would notice or care. It is only helpful if you are concerned about calories.
I think one good thing that could come from this is some awareness that most restaurant salads (without subs) have just as many calories as the burger option. Some people think a salad at a restaurant is a good choice because it is a "salad", yet has just as many cals as all the other food.7 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »That said places that list their calories are probably be more likely to get people who are counting calories as customers. Personally speaking when I was calorie counting I appreciated places that listed calories and was more likely to choose to eat there.
This is definitely true in my case. I avoid places that do not have nutritional information available.
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I dont think it will solve the obesity crisis - anyone who thinks a simple measure will solve a complex problem is very naive - but I do think small steps like this will help.
Giving people information is always good.3 -
The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.9
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showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.11 -
showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
Please explain.1 -
showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
I can see this in a general sense from watching human behavior.
Even without doing math, most of us know that primarily eating fast food and sitting around watching TV isn't good for us. We know that smoking isn't good for us, or drinking to excess, or taking certain drugs and so on.
So knowledge by itself, be it how many calories, or that something is good or bad for us isn't enough.
People choose to ignore that information and do what feels good, or what they've always done.
So while I agree math is a big part of it, you also have to want to do the math. Putting the information out there only helps those who want to use it. Those who are unwilling to use it will see little to no benefit.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.2 -
tbright1965 wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
I can see this in a general sense from watching human behavior.
Even without doing math, most of us know that primarily eating fast food and sitting around watching TV isn't good for us. We know that smoking isn't good for us, or drinking to excess, or taking certain drugs and so on.
So knowledge by itself, be it how many calories, or that something is good or bad for us isn't enough.
People choose to ignore that information and do what feels good, or what they've always done.
So while I agree math is a big part of it, you also have to want to do the math. Putting the information out there only helps those who want to use it. Those who are unwilling to use it will see little to no benefit.
The thing is for that first part you mentioned, "eating fast food", it's not really true. We've been trained to think that fast food is the worst food out there for you, and while it's certainly not "health food", for a weight gain perspective, that isn't true. A salad or pasta dish at a family style restaurants can have far more calories than a Big Mac and medium fries. Most people don't know that, and calorie counts on menus can help at least a few of them realize it.5 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
Please explain.
Calorie counting is not the solution to long term weight loss. Yes, it helps some people for a time (it helped me to a degree when I first started). Counting calories doesn't make cravings go away. Calorie counting doesn't make dysfunctional food relationships change. Counting calories does not solve the underlying issues that caused someone to become obese. Calorie counting may, in fact, increase stress associated with food. Calorie counting may disassociate you from the eating experience. Calorie counting long term is not a normal way to go through life. Calorie counting can be wildly inaccurate.
Just some of the reasons calorie math is not the answer...11 -
I'm sure it's been said, but no, this information will do nothing to stall the weight epidemic.
That does NOT make it a bad thing, and personally, is something I would definitely push for.
Anyone who IS watching their weight and/or aware of calories and what their body needs, will likely value this information. It can most certainly help lower the overall "weight" of this country.
Anyone who doesn't care about it to begin with, still won't care. If you're obese, and haven't/aren't bothering to watch your weight, you probably don't know what you actually need in daily calories anyways, making the information pretty meaningless to those people.2 -
showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
I don't think the vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. I think the average person knows "vegetables good, McDonalds bad" and not much past that.
Not everyone needs to be a calorie counter and tracker, but I don't think most people have a good understanding of what they put in their body and how it affects weight gain/weight loss. And a better understanding of that would help some people with their obesity problems.
There are a ton of issues that contribute to obesity in America (and many other parts of the world). Many of them are socio-economic. I don't think there is anyone who believes that having nutritional data available is going to fix it all on its own. But I certainly think its more beneficial than not to have it.7 -
showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
I don't think the vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. I think the average person knows "vegetables good, McDonalds bad" and not much past that.
Not everyone needs to be a calorie counter and tracker, but I don't think most people have a good understanding of what they put in their body and how it affects weight gain/weight loss. And a better understanding of that would help some people with their obesity problems.
There are a ton of issues that contribute to obesity in America (and many other parts of the world). Many of them are socio-economic. I don't think there is anyone who believes that having nutritional data available is going to fix it all on its own. But I certainly think its more beneficial than not to have it.
Yes, this is more or less my point. There are many factors. I am not anti calorie awareness.
Honestly, "McDonalds bad vegetables good" is an understanding of basic nutrition. Also, almost everyone used to be thin (or a healthy weight) as recently as when I was a kid in the 70s. There was almost no fitness industry. Nobody talked calories then.7 -
Everything in moderation, sure. No argument.
But for those who don't practice moderation, are they more likely to over consume calories eating Big Macs or Kale?
I thought my point was obvious. But yes, there is always the college professor who lost weight eating mostly snack cakes because he was in a calorie deficit.
But the difference between him and the other 99.44% of people (made up number) is that he was adding up the calories and going for, IIRC, 2000 calories/day.
So if you are not going to do the math, then you should probably be choosing your food from a set of choices that make it hard to overconsume.
Fast food and even restaurant salads (Thinking of that Real Men of Genius commercial celebrating the inventor of the Taco Salad right about now) make it easy to consume more calories than you need.tbright1965 wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
I can see this in a general sense from watching human behavior.
Even without doing math, most of us know that primarily eating fast food and sitting around watching TV isn't good for us. We know that smoking isn't good for us, or drinking to excess, or taking certain drugs and so on.
So knowledge by itself, be it how many calories, or that something is good or bad for us isn't enough.
People choose to ignore that information and do what feels good, or what they've always done.
So while I agree math is a big part of it, you also have to want to do the math. Putting the information out there only helps those who want to use it. Those who are unwilling to use it will see little to no benefit.
The thing is for that first part you mentioned, "eating fast food", it's not really true. We've been trained to think that fast food is the worst food out there for you, and while it's certainly not "health food", for a weight gain perspective, that isn't true. A salad or pasta dish at a family style restaurants can have far more calories than a Big Mac and medium fries. Most people don't know that, and calorie counts on menus can help at least a few of them realize it.
2 -
showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
We get countless people on these boards who have no idea that calories in calories out is the basic energy equation and think that somehow insulin or eating a particular type of food (carbs, sugar, etc) is what makes them overweight, not that they eat too many calories in general.
I agree that calorie awareness is not a magic bullet for the obesity epidemic - however, tracking calories absolutely can be a solution for individuals, just look at the success stories in these forums at how many people finally were able to overcome a lifetime of yo yo dieting and weight struggles by understanding and accepting that a calorie deficit is what's required for weight loss and after the weight is gone, a focus on eating to your maintenance calories is what's required for long term success.
Losing weight is simple. It isn't easy. But in order to make it easier, we should offer every possible tool that could help people be successful.
I stumbled upon MFP exactly this way. I went out for an over the top dinner with my husband. Afterwards we were trying to guess at how many calories we had just eaten. I started googling, found my way to the MFP database totally by accident, after verifying that the meal probably had upwards of 2000 calories each, I decided to set up an account and start logging my food. That was around 2,100 days of consecutive logging ago, I lost the weight I set out to lose and have kept it off for multiple years.
So I absolutely believe that calorie awareness, even if a person isn't a diligent calorie counter right now, can be the spark that helps someone wake up to the realization that whether you "count" them or not, your body counts them.13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
We get countless people on these boards who have no idea that calories in calories out is the basic energy equation and think that somehow insulin or eating a particular type of food (carbs, sugar, etc) is what makes them overweight, not that they eat too many calories in general.
I agree that calorie awareness is not a magic bullet for the obesity epidemic - however, tracking calories absolutely can be a solution for individuals, just look at the success stories in these forums at how many people finally were able to overcome a lifetime of yo yo dieting and weight struggles by understanding and accepting that a calorie deficit is what's required for weight loss and after the weight is gone, a focus on eating to your maintenance calories is what's required for long term success.
Losing weight is simple. It isn't easy. But in order to make it easier, we should offer every possible tool that could help people be successful.
I stumbled upon MFP exactly this way. I went out for an over the top dinner with my husband. Afterwards we were trying to guess at how many calories we had just eaten. I started googling, found my way to the MFP database totally by accident, after verifying that the meal probably had upwards of 2000 calories each, I decided to set up an account and start logging my food. That was around 2,100 days of consecutive logging ago, I lost the weight I set out to lose and have kept it off for multiple years.
So I absolutely believe that calorie awareness, even if a person isn't a diligent calorie counter right now, can be the spark that helps someone wake up to the realization that whether you "count" them or not, your body counts them.
I appreciate your thoughts and your story. Congratulations on your weight loss success! That is tremendous. The stats for keeping the weight off long term (5+ years) are quite depressing. Something like 5% of people are able to do it. And you have done it!
Logging for life makes me cringe... Especially since we dine out a lot. I am curious why you still log. Surely you know the calories/macros of a meal at a glance by now? I would assume you have decent to strong eating habits and nutritional knowledge at this point? What if you are hungrier than usual in a given day? Do you still hold yourself to allotted calories?1 -
showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »showjack70 wrote: »The obesity epidemic is not a calorie math problem, so labels will do next to nothing in regards to solving the crisis.
What type of problem is the obesity epidemic, if not down to the fact that people take in more energy (calories) than they expend?
I agree with the above that posting the information is not a complete solution, but awareness of calories is one of the single biggest factors for my success in losing weight and keeping it off for a few years now.
Part of the problem is consuming too many calories. I was not saying otherwise. Apologies for the ambiguity in my prior reply.
What I meant to convey is that overeating (and thus obesity) is not going to be solved by calorie awareness or calculating calories (i.e. calorie math) or even tracking calories somewhere like MFP. People that are obese know they eat too many calories. The vast majority of people know the basics of decent nutrition. Yet here we are in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
We get countless people on these boards who have no idea that calories in calories out is the basic energy equation and think that somehow insulin or eating a particular type of food (carbs, sugar, etc) is what makes them overweight, not that they eat too many calories in general.
I agree that calorie awareness is not a magic bullet for the obesity epidemic - however, tracking calories absolutely can be a solution for individuals, just look at the success stories in these forums at how many people finally were able to overcome a lifetime of yo yo dieting and weight struggles by understanding and accepting that a calorie deficit is what's required for weight loss and after the weight is gone, a focus on eating to your maintenance calories is what's required for long term success.
Losing weight is simple. It isn't easy. But in order to make it easier, we should offer every possible tool that could help people be successful.
I stumbled upon MFP exactly this way. I went out for an over the top dinner with my husband. Afterwards we were trying to guess at how many calories we had just eaten. I started googling, found my way to the MFP database totally by accident, after verifying that the meal probably had upwards of 2000 calories each, I decided to set up an account and start logging my food. That was around 2,100 days of consecutive logging ago, I lost the weight I set out to lose and have kept it off for multiple years.
So I absolutely believe that calorie awareness, even if a person isn't a diligent calorie counter right now, can be the spark that helps someone wake up to the realization that whether you "count" them or not, your body counts them.
I appreciate your thoughts and your story. Congratulations on your weight loss success! That is tremendous. The stats for keeping the weight off long term (5+ years) are quite depressing. Something like 5% of people are able to do it. And you have done it!
Logging for life makes me cringe... Especially since we dine out a lot. I am curious why you still log. Surely you know the calories/macros of a meal at a glance by now? I would assume you have decent to strong eating habits and nutritional knowledge at this point? What if you are hungrier than usual in a given day? Do you still hold yourself to allotted calories?
Not always so obvious: From https://www.boredpanda.com/healthy-unhealthy-food-calories-camparison-lucy-mountain/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic
Can you really eyeball the amount of butter?
Both are the same size, both come with avocado, cheese, croutons and dressing
All three of these are smoothies:
Also, portion creep is real.
15
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