DL vs squat
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lorrpb
Posts: 11,464 Member
Why is DL called a pulling exercise for lower body and squats are pushing ? I know there is a slight difference in using quads vs hams but the overall direction/type of leg movement seems almost the same.
Also, what’s the difference between glute bridge and hip thrust. I tried looking up pictures but still couldn’t discern difference except that hip thrust seemed to use some kind of rack or machine.
Thx!
Also, what’s the difference between glute bridge and hip thrust. I tried looking up pictures but still couldn’t discern difference except that hip thrust seemed to use some kind of rack or machine.
Thx!
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Replies
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With Dead Lift you are literally pulling the weight off the floor using your back and hamstrings. With Squats you are pushing the weight up using your quads and butt. If your using dumbells they look nearly identical, but the emphasis is different. With squats you push with the legs, with deads you pull with the back. If you focus on breathing properly it can help you focus on the proper muscle group. On Squats I breath in on the way down, and push air out as I lift the weights up. With Deads I suck air in as I pull the weights off the floor.
Hip Bridges your shoulders are on the ground. Hip Thrusts your back is rested on the bench, and usually with a weight on your lap.6 -
Deadlifts are both a push and a pull. The push comes from your legs pushing into the floor, and the pull comes from pulling the bar off the ground. The extent to which it is push vs pull depends on your leverages, and the deadlift variation.
For example:
- a trap bar deadlift has your torso more vertical, and is much more of a push with your legs than a pull (in my limited trap bar experience you sort of just hold on).
- a stiff legged deadlift has your torso more horizontal, and minimises leg drive. It's therefore much less of a push with your legs, and more of a pull.
If your leverages (shin length, femur length, torso length) are such that your deadlift leaves you with a more vertical / horizontal torso, then your deadlift may be more push / pull respectively.
From a programming perspective, maybe people call deadlifts a pull because they're heavy and they don't want to do them on the same day as squats? I don't know.4 -
JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up.
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.3 -
JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
They are similar and I think it's a fair question3 -
JerSchmare wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
In a squat, your back should be straight, not bent over. In a deadlift, your back is bent over, and you straighten it up as you lift. So, you’re pulling. When you squat, back is straight, and you bend hips and knees, and push up.
Very different movements. Feel very different. And hit the muscle groups differently. I think both exercises hit every muscle in your body, or damn near.
I get the pulling with the arm/back but it’s listed as a lower body pull and I just didn’t get the pulling with the legs part.0 -
JerSchmare wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
In a squat, your back should be straight, not bent over. In a deadlift, your back is bent over, and you straighten it up as you lift. So, you’re pulling. When you squat, back is straight, and you bend hips and knees, and push up.
Very different movements. Feel very different. And hit the muscle groups differently. I think both exercises hit every muscle in your body, or damn near.
I get the pulling with the arm/back but it’s listed as a lower body pull and I just didn’t get the pulling with the legs part.
Because of the hip hinge motion, you end up pulling thru your hamstrings. Think of your hip like a pulley, as you pull the one end of the rope your hamstrings it pulls your back up like a pulley This is more pronounced with a stiff leg deadlift. With squats the knee bend is the active part of the lift. With deads the knee bend is not the critical part of the pull, you simply bend them so you can reach the bar. Once you do though, you focus on pulling from your hammies and knees just kinda go for the ride and really don't straighten until the top of the lift.3 -
JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.5 -
JerSchmare wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
In a squat, your back should be straight, not bent over. In a deadlift, your back is bent over, and you straighten it up as you lift. So, you’re pulling. When you squat, back is straight, and you bend hips and knees, and push up.
Very different movements. Feel very different. And hit the muscle groups differently. I think both exercises hit every muscle in your body, or damn near.
I get the pulling with the arm/back but it’s listed as a lower body pull and I just didn’t get the pulling with the legs part.
If your form is correct, you should feel the effort focused in your hamstrings contracting, pulling your upper body up.
If you are not keeping your back straight, you might feel it more in your back and arms.0 -
I do DB GOBLET squats and 60” barbell DL. I definitely contract my hamstrings, just never associated that with “pulling” my legs per se. Thx everyone.0
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@lorrpb Don't get too hung up about classifying exercises as push or pull it's not that important what's important is that you do these two excellent full body moves.
FWIW: Think about when you are at the bottom of both lifts. In the squat the weight is above you so you are pushing it up. In the DL the weight is below you so you are pulling it up.
They ARE very similar in some ways but in others the feel completely different. Squats I feel very much in my quads. DL in my glutes and hammies.
From ExRx.net these are the muscles both lift hit. (EDIT: These are both for BB I just notice you are doing goblet squats)
DL:
Target Muscles:
Gluteus Maximus
Synergists
Quadriceps
Adductor Magnus
Hamstrings (top half)
Soleus
Dynamic Stabilizers
Hamstrings (bottom half)
Gastrocnemius
Stabilizers
Erector Spinae
Trapezius, Middle
Trapezius, Upper
Levator Scapulae
Rhomboids
Antagonist Stabilizers
Rectus Abdominis
Obliques
Squat:
Target Muscles
Quadriceps
Synergists
Gluteus Maximus
Adductor Magnus
Soleus
Dynamic Stabilizers
Hamstrings
Gastrocnemius
Stabilizers
Erector Spinae
Antagonist Stabilizers
Rectus Abdominis
Obliques1 -
The movements are distincly different, but classifying any movement as a "push" or a "pull" is largely just semantics. Muscles can only stretch and contract. You can't push with a rope.
Coloqually, "pulling" movements are more posterior chain or back focused (deadlifts, rows etc..) and "pushing" movements are more anterior chain focused (high bar/front squats, bench pressing etc...).
I believe that the distinction is drawn more to facilitate a training split rather than being grounded in anatomical/kinesthetic differences.
This is mostly just an FYI and my view on it. Train both regularly and increase the load/volume over time and you'll do just fine3 -
mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.
Not with DB squats.
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mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.
Not with DB squats.
Even with DB squats.
A squat is a squat. BW, DB, KB, Barbell.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.
Not with DB squats.
Even with DB squats.
A squat is a squat. BW, DB, KB, Barbell.
Every guide every guide every where says keep your knees behind or at your toes. There's a reason.
http://www.stack.com/a/dumbbell-squat
https://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/dumbbell-squat4 -
mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.
Not with DB squats.
Even with DB squats.
A squat is a squat. BW, DB, KB, Barbell.
Every guide every guide every where says keep your knees behind or at your toes.
Every guide except trainers who have kept up with the times rather than parroting old information.7 -
????
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mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »They are completely different exercises. You are pulling weight off the floor in a deadlift. In a squat, you are pushing the weight up. Why is that hard to understand? Lol
Because I’m probably stupid with body mechanics. In both exercises my knees are bent and I’m straightening my legs so the movements seem similar.
No reason to feel bad about asking. If you do regular barbell back squats, vs barbell dead lifts from the floor the moves really are completely different because of the way the weight is loaded onto your body. But I'm guessing you lift with dumbells which is not so obvious from the observer standpoint. Because with DB's you do have to lean your body forward with a squat similar to a dead lift, in order to sit your butt back on the imaginary chair and also keeping your knees from coming way too far forward which is no good. You can seriously hurt your knees if you let them go forward past your toes. So contrary to what someone else said with a squat you do lean forward some or else you will hurt your knees. Which makes them look similar, but with Deads you focus on pulling from the bent over position, and with Squats you focus on pushing up from the bottom of the knee bend.
Mostly good, but the bolded is nonsense. Keep your knees above your toes(imaginary train tracks) and it doesn't matter how far forward they do or don't go.
Not with DB squats.
Even with DB squats.
A squat is a squat. BW, DB, KB, Barbell.
Every guide every guide every where says keep your knees behind or at your toes. There's a reason.
http://www.stack.com/a/dumbbell-squat
https://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/dumbbell-squat
There are literally thousands of articles addressing that myth.
From your source.
http://www.stack.com/a/squat-with-knees-past-toes2
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