Essential amino acids and/or protein supplements?
Replies
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Stockholm_Andy wrote: »OP There was a study. There's always a study. It showed that people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time.
The supplement companies promoting Essential Amino Acids NEVER mention the low dietary protein intake part as they are also selling *kitten* loads of protein supps.
You eat animal protein you'll get everything you need.
If you are still worried buy some Whey.
Count your calories. Lift heavy, consistently and progressively.
Become Hench.
Please post the link to this study. As pointed out above, BCAA are useless by themselves. Every study I've read, including one meta-analysis indicates they are ineffective and possibly even counter productive.
I think you missed him saying the studies showing that aminos were helpful compared to the control group were all done with low protein intake. He wasn't saying to use them, he was saying supplement companies ignore the other studies.1 -
I'm allergic to plant proteins BTW, perhaps I should have mentioned that at the beginning. But I didn't feel that I needed to because I was asking for people's experience with amino acids and protein shakes, not asking should I eat food instead. I don't know what proteins I'm even allergic to, it's definitely peanuts and what they use to make beer and wine.
I appreciate all your comments and help, but I really don't think that I could possibly get all my proteins just from the food that I can eat. I know I can survive on it, but I'm trying to build muscle. Maybe I can get all my amino acids from food not containing plants? I don't know, all this is new to me and confusing.
You are already getting enough. You said you are aiming for 1 gram per pound of body weight. It's per pound of lean body mass and then range is .8 to 1 gram per pound. Again it is LEAN body mass not total body weight.1 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »OP There was a study. There's always a study. It showed that people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time.
The supplement companies promoting Essential Amino Acids NEVER mention the low dietary protein intake part as they are also selling *kitten* loads of protein supps.
You eat animal protein you'll get everything you need.
If you are still worried buy some Whey.
Count your calories. Lift heavy, consistently and progressively.
Become Hench.
Please post the link to this study. As pointed out above, BCAA are useless by themselves. Every study I've read, including one meta-analysis indicates they are ineffective and possibly even counter productive.
I think you missed him saying the studies showing that aminos were helpful compared to the control group were all done with low protein intake. He wasn't saying to use them, he was saying supplement companies ignore the other studies.
Yep and i believe even Alan Aragon mentions that in the latest meta analysis.3 -
I’m betting the OP is allergic to brewers yeast, a common vegetable protein source. Read your supplement labels, OP!
Given your allergy, I think you are better off eating steak! Regularly. For health reasons of course. Triple AAA and grilled to perfection.4 -
I didn't say I was allergic to all plant proteins. I stated above what I know some of what I can/can't eat, and the exact protein was never found in the tests. All I know is that I am allergic to some plant proteins.
But yes, the claim that he's allergic to all plant proteins is not only weird, it's contradicted by the other things he says.
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I’m betting the OP is allergic to brewers yeast, a common vegetable protein source. Read your supplement labels, OP!
Given your allergy, I think you are better off eating steak! Regularly. For health reasons of course. Triple AAA and grilled to perfection.
Mmmmm steak. I'll look into that, cheers.1 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »OP There was a study. There's always a study. It showed that people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time.
The supplement companies promoting Essential Amino Acids NEVER mention the low dietary protein intake part as they are also selling *kitten* loads of protein supps.
You eat animal protein you'll get everything you need.
If you are still worried buy some Whey.
Count your calories. Lift heavy, consistently and progressively.
Become Hench.
Please post the link to this study. As pointed out above, BCAA are useless by themselves. Every study I've read, including one meta-analysis indicates they are ineffective and possibly even counter productive.
I think you missed him saying the studies showing that aminos were helpful compared to the control group were all done with low protein intake. He wasn't saying to use them, he was saying supplement companies ignore the other studies.
Nope, I didn't miss it. That's why I wanted to see the study. Always open to new info.0 -
calderstrake wrote: »
I have tried several brands of whey protein and I think it's essential. I don't think it's fair to compare amino acids to whey protein as they work differently. The amino acids work to help the tissue rebuild more efficiently and reduce the negative effects you feel after a strong workout. The whey protein is just a pure source of energy to rebuild muscle tissue.It's good to hear amino acids work for you. Have you tried whey protein before? How would you compare the two?
Right now I'm drinking some essential amino acids during my workout then whey after. I don't really know why both, just because I have them in the house I guess. I should stick to one and see what works.
Before you give advice you should actually have some idea of what you are talking about. FYI, whey, and all other proteins for that matter ARE AMINO ACIDS!! What exactly do you think protein is??!!
Right, you got me there. That just came off as stupid, no way around that.
What I meant to say was that whey protein doesn't contain all the amino acids that are useful to the body and taking additional amino acids that are not in whey protein are a good idea based on my personal experience.9 -
calderstrake wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »
I have tried several brands of whey protein and I think it's essential. I don't think it's fair to compare amino acids to whey protein as they work differently. The amino acids work to help the tissue rebuild more efficiently and reduce the negative effects you feel after a strong workout. The whey protein is just a pure source of energy to rebuild muscle tissue.It's good to hear amino acids work for you. Have you tried whey protein before? How would you compare the two?
Right now I'm drinking some essential amino acids during my workout then whey after. I don't really know why both, just because I have them in the house I guess. I should stick to one and see what works.
Before you give advice you should actually have some idea of what you are talking about. FYI, whey, and all other proteins for that matter ARE AMINO ACIDS!! What exactly do you think protein is??!!
Right, you got me there. That just came off as stupid, no way around that.
What I meant to say was that whey protein doesn't contain all the amino acids that are useful to the body and taking additional amino acids that are not in whey protein are a good idea based on my personal experience.
Which essential aminos aren't in whey?
I'll wait.
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stanmann571 wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »
I have tried several brands of whey protein and I think it's essential. I don't think it's fair to compare amino acids to whey protein as they work differently. The amino acids work to help the tissue rebuild more efficiently and reduce the negative effects you feel after a strong workout. The whey protein is just a pure source of energy to rebuild muscle tissue.It's good to hear amino acids work for you. Have you tried whey protein before? How would you compare the two?
Right now I'm drinking some essential amino acids during my workout then whey after. I don't really know why both, just because I have them in the house I guess. I should stick to one and see what works.
Before you give advice you should actually have some idea of what you are talking about. FYI, whey, and all other proteins for that matter ARE AMINO ACIDS!! What exactly do you think protein is??!!
Right, you got me there. That just came off as stupid, no way around that.
What I meant to say was that whey protein doesn't contain all the amino acids that are useful to the body and taking additional amino acids that are not in whey protein are a good idea based on my personal experience.
Which essential aminos aren't in whey?
I'll wait.
Waiting right along with you.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »
I have tried several brands of whey protein and I think it's essential. I don't think it's fair to compare amino acids to whey protein as they work differently. The amino acids work to help the tissue rebuild more efficiently and reduce the negative effects you feel after a strong workout. The whey protein is just a pure source of energy to rebuild muscle tissue.It's good to hear amino acids work for you. Have you tried whey protein before? How would you compare the two?
Right now I'm drinking some essential amino acids during my workout then whey after. I don't really know why both, just because I have them in the house I guess. I should stick to one and see what works.
Before you give advice you should actually have some idea of what you are talking about. FYI, whey, and all other proteins for that matter ARE AMINO ACIDS!! What exactly do you think protein is??!!
Right, you got me there. That just came off as stupid, no way around that.
What I meant to say was that whey protein doesn't contain all the amino acids that are useful to the body and taking additional amino acids that are not in whey protein are a good idea based on my personal experience.
Which essential aminos aren't in whey?
I'll wait.
Waiting right along with you.
It's a party3 -
God god damn it, we all know there isn't going to be logical response...3
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stanmann571 wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »calderstrake wrote: »
I have tried several brands of whey protein and I think it's essential. I don't think it's fair to compare amino acids to whey protein as they work differently. The amino acids work to help the tissue rebuild more efficiently and reduce the negative effects you feel after a strong workout. The whey protein is just a pure source of energy to rebuild muscle tissue.It's good to hear amino acids work for you. Have you tried whey protein before? How would you compare the two?
Right now I'm drinking some essential amino acids during my workout then whey after. I don't really know why both, just because I have them in the house I guess. I should stick to one and see what works.
Before you give advice you should actually have some idea of what you are talking about. FYI, whey, and all other proteins for that matter ARE AMINO ACIDS!! What exactly do you think protein is??!!
Right, you got me there. That just came off as stupid, no way around that.
What I meant to say was that whey protein doesn't contain all the amino acids that are useful to the body and taking additional amino acids that are not in whey protein are a good idea based on my personal experience.
Which essential aminos aren't in whey?
I'll wait.
Waiting right along with you.
I think Elvis has left the building...2 -
To be fair, he said "useful to the body", not "essential", and it's not out of the question that some non-essential amino acids might, in some sense, be "useful". But this is one of those can-of-worms claims that gets into the question of whether its ever terribly useful to supplement any nutrient our bodies can make themselves, and which we very likely also get from ordinary food.1
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Well he could start bashing supplement companies for adulterating/misbranding ("protein spiking"). Whatever, let's just move along now...1
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »Well he could start bashing supplement companies for adulterating/misbranding ("protein spiking"). Whatever, let's just move along now...Keto_Vampire wrote: »Well he could start bashing supplement companies for adulterating/misbranding ("protein spiking"). Whatever, let's just move along now...
Awww, but it's so much fun when someone makes statements about things that they obviously don't have a clue.1 -
Yup, back to the question @ hand...real food protein sources & whey is fine if you can't meet protein goal based on LBM. Supplements are a big waste of money often; very much so for BCAAs...some ultra specific studies on underweight wrestlers making drastic weight cuts & severely undereating are not applicable to most real world scenarios.1
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OK, so whey has all the essential acids. Is there any reason to take EAA instead of whey, or should you just take whey? What's the difference in them?0
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OK, so whey has all the essential acids. Is there any reason to take EAA instead of whey, or should you just take whey? What's the difference in them?
You're kidding.. You just said whey contains essential aminos. Then you asked if you should supplement separately with essential amino acids. No. It will not make a different. Training as a natural you need to hit a few key points.
Proper rest
Nutrition
Caloric surplus
Sufficient volume and frequency
As long as you are hitting those. Some over hyped biased studied supplement will not do anything. If you want something that will make a difference. Talk to a competitive bodybuilder at your gym about acquiring some PEDs. Aside from that just stop worrying and keep on the grind. We've given you all you we can. If you still want to lighten your wallet at least let me give you my direct deposit information.
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OK, so whey has all the essential acids. Is there any reason to take EAA instead of whey, or should you just take whey? What's the difference in them?
You're kidding.. You just said whey contains essential aminos. Then you asked if you should supplement separately with essential amino acids. No. It will not make a different. Training as a natural you need to hit a few key points.
Proper rest
Nutrition
Caloric surplus
Sufficient volume and frequency
As long as you are hitting those. Some over hyped biased studied supplement will not do anything. If you want something that will make a difference. Talk to a competitive bodybuilder at your gym about acquiring some PEDs. Aside from that just stop worrying and keep on the grind. We've given you all you we can. If you still want to lighten your wallet at least let me give you my direct deposit information.
So there is no reason ever for anybody to take EAA instead of whey? That's all I'm asking. I'm trying to learn here.1 -
Troyjlambert wrote: »
What's the difference between casein and whey?1 -
OK, so whey has all the essential acids. Is there any reason to take EAA instead of whey, or should you just take whey? What's the difference in them?
You're kidding.. You just said whey contains essential aminos. Then you asked if you should supplement separately with essential amino acids. No. It will not make a different. Training as a natural you need to hit a few key points.
Proper rest
Nutrition
Caloric surplus
Sufficient volume and frequency
As long as you are hitting those. Some over hyped biased studied supplement will not do anything. If you want something that will make a difference. Talk to a competitive bodybuilder at your gym about acquiring some PEDs. Aside from that just stop worrying and keep on the grind. We've given you all you we can. If you still want to lighten your wallet at least let me give you my direct deposit information.
So there is no reason ever for anybody to take EAA instead of whey? That's all I'm asking. I'm trying to learn here.
There is not. The only thing an EEA supplement does is put your money in a supplement sellers pocket.2 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/1
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So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?4 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.1 -
Well now, you've got to ask yourself...are they good/quality/unbiased references? Or is it a bunch of half-kittened, cherry picked, non applicable, poorly designed/methodology heavily weighed to show a significant difference/poor "control" group, etc. studies? Just given it's a supplement company, most likely garbage references - what little references they do use are not used correctly - taken out of context, underdosing, not applicable to the general person, etc.6
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So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
If their product (or any particular protein supplement) was the best/most optimal, don't you think every bodybuilder everywhere would be using it and everybody would know about it? Their slick advertising wouldn't be the only source of glowing reviews - it would be all over the internet.
Get adequate protein in your diet and don't worry about majoring in the minors. Save the minor details for when you're 5% bodyfat and in the final stages of contest prep for your first bodybuilding show. They may matter a little bit then, but they don't right now.
A good read from Lyle McDonald: https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fundamental-principles-versus-minor-details.html/6 -
Man this is painful. Dude take an advertisement course and maybe you'll see what we mean6
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This discussion has been closed.
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