Essential amino acids and/or protein supplements?
Replies
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Pork, beef, poultry, fish, seafood, and dairy have plenty of amino acids.2
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Oh I know that as well as the next guy haha. There definitely is, but some of it does require deductive reasoning. And research on your own time.
Glad to offer information but it gets a bit much when the person does not want to listen to reason. Still I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread2 -
@nodley - There are 20 amino acids. These are all "protein". There are some proteins that the body must get via foods (or other 'external sources') and there are proteins that the body can produce itself.
Please take a look at this link (I have no idea about this web site...it just lays out the 20 proteins fairly well):
http://www.chem4kids.com/files/bio_aminoacid2.html
This might help you.....it is a start! :-)1 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
Have you considered that people who have used them both might have confirmation bias? Or that companies who sell said supplements have self interest in providing cherry picked studies that help them sell their product?
Are you really that naive?2 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
Have you considered that people who have used them both might have confirmation bias? Or that companies who sell said supplements have self interest in providing cherry picked studies that help them sell their product?
Are you really that naive?
You could argue the same about what you're telling me. Do you have any links to studies that prove whey is better?6 -
Oh I know that as well as the next guy haha. There definitely is, but some of it does require deductive reasoning. And research on your own time.
Glad to offer information but it gets a bit much when the person does not want to listen to reason. Still I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread
Yes, it's a learning process but who said I wasn't listening? I'm learning with every reply.1 -
Bottom line - take whichever one you want. It isn't going to make a hill of beans of difference either way.
You might benefit from watching Eric Helms' video about supplementation in the hierarchy of his Nutrition Pyramid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tp3ZIFKkLg 4 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
Have you considered that people who have used them both might have confirmation bias? Or that companies who sell said supplements have self interest in providing cherry picked studies that help them sell their product?
Are you really that naive?
You could argue the same about what you're telling me. Do you have any links to studies that prove whey is better?
Ok, well, good luck figuring it out then. You're on your own.
I'm not your research assistant. You can search PubMed if you choose or believe the sales woo from the supp companies rather than waste people's time asking questions and arguing with the answers.3 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »OP There was a study. There's always a study. It showed that people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time.
The supplement companies promoting Essential Amino Acids NEVER mention the low dietary protein intake part as they are also selling *kitten* loads of protein supps.
You eat animal protein you'll get everything you need.
If you are still worried buy some Whey.
Count your calories. Lift heavy, consistently and progressively.
Become Hench.
Please post the link to this study. As pointed out above, BCAA are useless by themselves. Every study I've read, including one meta-analysis indicates they are ineffective and possibly even counter productive.
Sorry @mmapags I only just saw your reply to me.
I was quoting verbatim from examine.com and their page on BCAA. The links to the 142 studies they reference are on the page and linked.
https://examine.com/supplements/branched-chain-amino-acids
I think you miss interpreted what I meant in my post because they and I also conclude BCAA supplementation is not effective. The study (and the bit you didn't highlight) was on adults with very low dietary protein unlike most people who use the supplement.
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So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
Have you considered that people who have used them both might have confirmation bias? Or that companies who sell said supplements have self interest in providing cherry picked studies that help them sell their product?
Are you really that naive?
You could argue the same about what you're telling me. Do you have any links to studies that prove whey is better?
Ok, well, good luck figuring it out then. You're on your own.
I'm not your research assistant. You can search PubMed if you choose or believe the sales woo from the supp companies rather than waste people's time asking questions and arguing with the answers.
But will my research just find sales woo for whey? This is why I'm asking people who know.0 -
Thanks for the replies everybody. I have no doubt that whey works fine, both from what you've told me and my own research, and I'll get good progress with it. So many people can't be wrong.
I did really somebody who used EAA to get involved too, that link I shared that said about whey just getting turned into EAAs intrigued me, but hey, if whey works that's what I'll use.0 -
So this is *kitten*? https://primevallabs.com/is-eaa-max-better-than-protein-shocking-truth/
Do you really need an answer? Does primeval labs sell supplements?
Yes I need an answer, they provided references as proof. This is why I'm asking people that have used them both.
Have you considered that people who have used them both might have confirmation bias? Or that companies who sell said supplements have self interest in providing cherry picked studies that help them sell their product?
Are you really that naive?
You could argue the same about what you're telling me. Do you have any links to studies that prove whey is better?
Ok, well, good luck figuring it out then. You're on your own.
I'm not your research assistant. You can search PubMed if you choose or believe the sales woo from the supp companies rather than waste people's time asking questions and arguing with the answers.
But will my research just find sales woo for whey? This is why I'm asking people who know.
Whey contains EAA.. there is just no additional benefit of consuming both. Try not to complicate this.
If you are really concerned with muscle growth than focus and a good lifting program and a good diet.8 -
Stockholm_Andy wrote: »Stockholm_Andy wrote: »OP There was a study. There's always a study. It showed that people with low dietary protein intake, BCAA supplementation can promote muscle protein synthesis and increase muscle growth over time.
The supplement companies promoting Essential Amino Acids NEVER mention the low dietary protein intake part as they are also selling *kitten* loads of protein supps.
You eat animal protein you'll get everything you need.
If you are still worried buy some Whey.
Count your calories. Lift heavy, consistently and progressively.
Become Hench.
Please post the link to this study. As pointed out above, BCAA are useless by themselves. Every study I've read, including one meta-analysis indicates they are ineffective and possibly even counter productive.
Sorry @mmapags I only just saw your reply to me.
I was quoting verbatim from examine.com and their page on BCAA. The links to the 142 studies they reference are on the page and linked.
https://examine.com/supplements/branched-chain-amino-acids
I think you miss interpreted what I meant in my post because they and I also conclude BCAA supplementation is not effective. The study (and the bit you didn't highlight) was on adults with very low dietary protein unlike most people who use the supplement.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the followup and clarifying the context.0 -
Thanks for the replies everybody. I have no doubt that whey works fine, both from what you've told me and my own research, and I'll get good progress with it. So many people can't be wrong.
I did really somebody who used EAA to get involved too, that link I shared that said about whey just getting turned into EAAs intrigued me, but hey, if whey works that's what I'll use.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
Essential amino acids.
If you buy a good quality protein it will have the amino profiles on the packaging. If you notice it will have essential aminos in that profile.6 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
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I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?4 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
If this is a subject of purely academic interest to you, go head on. Otherwise, you're way off in the weeds chasing something that isn't going to make one bit of practical difference in the real world.
Maybe start by Googling PDCAAS and reading up on it. You can also look at PER and BV. While you're learning about those, check how whey protein measures up in each category.
You may also want to Google "Jose Antonio protein", since Dr. Jose Antonio is one of the leading protein researchers in the world right now and has authored numerous studies on the subject. Should be enough reading to keep you busy for a while.3 -
Ah, it’s all so simple. The worry about incomplete proteins comes from plant sources, and for the OP this is not an issue. Let him eat steak.
My DUH moment with whey and casein (in truth I’ve had a few) is that cows milk is ideally suited to help a calf grow TWO POUNDS A DAY, a lot of that muscle. Of course milk has got an excellent nutrition profile.
My other DUH moment was my puzzle how a cheese byproduct can be high in protein and the cheese too? Two different proteins.0 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?
To learn.
I don't have time and money to waste doing the wrong things. I'm 40 this year with a few injuries including a separated shoulder and I work 10 hours a day, soon to be 12 hours a day if I get this new job that I applied for because we have a baby on the way. I get 20-30 minutes a day to train and that is it.
I don't want 5k calories that I cannot burn off or tons of red meat which I read is unhealthy, I want to stay lean but get some muscle too and just be strong and healthy, not a power lifter or bodybuilder.
I'm trying to eat a good balanced diet and I want to boost my protein intake with one product I know works. The science behind it does interest me, and I don't think asking these questions is over complicating anything, I'm simply just trying to learn what I can. I bought a couple months worth of whey and EAA so there's no big rush for me, I have time to learn everything about them, and even casein, creatine or anything else that has being mentioned too.1 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
If this is a subject of purely academic interest to you, go head on. Otherwise, you're way off in the weeds chasing something that isn't going to make one bit of practical difference in the real world.
Maybe start by Googling PDCAAS and reading up on it. You can also look at PER and BV. While you're learning about those, check how whey protein measures up in each category.
You may also want to Google "Jose Antonio protein", since Dr. Jose Antonio is one of the leading protein researchers in the world right now and has authored numerous studies on the subject. Should be enough reading to keep you busy for a while.
Thanks for that, I'll check it out.0 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?
To learn.
I don't have time and money to waste doing the wrong things. I'm 40 this year with a few injuries including a separated shoulder and I work 10 hours a day, soon to be 12 hours a day if I get this new job that I applied for because we have a baby on the way. I get 20-30 minutes a day to train and that is it.
I don't want 5k calories that I cannot burn off or tons of red meat which I read is unhealthy, I want to stay lean but get some muscle too and just be strong and healthy, not a power lifter or bodybuilder.
I'm trying to eat a good balanced diet and I want to boost my protein intake with one product I know works. The science behind it does interest me, and I don't think asking these questions is over complicating anything, I'm simply just trying to learn what I can. I bought a couple months worth of whey and EAA so there's no big rush for me, I have time to learn everything about them, and even casein, creatine or anything else that has being mentioned too.
The problem is that you're listening to unreliable sources. There's nothing inherently wrong with meat, unless you're an ethical vegan. Even red meat. Of course it's better to have a variety to get a variety of omega fats. But if beef or venison is accessible and inexpensive it's not worse or better than chicken or fish.5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?
To learn.
I don't have time and money to waste doing the wrong things. I'm 40 this year with a few injuries including a separated shoulder and I work 10 hours a day, soon to be 12 hours a day if I get this new job that I applied for because we have a baby on the way. I get 20-30 minutes a day to train and that is it.
I don't want 5k calories that I cannot burn off or tons of red meat which I read is unhealthy, I want to stay lean but get some muscle too and just be strong and healthy, not a power lifter or bodybuilder.
I'm trying to eat a good balanced diet and I want to boost my protein intake with one product I know works. The science behind it does interest me, and I don't think asking these questions is over complicating anything, I'm simply just trying to learn what I can. I bought a couple months worth of whey and EAA so there's no big rush for me, I have time to learn everything about them, and even casein, creatine or anything else that has being mentioned too.
The problem is that you're listening to unreliable sources. There's nothing inherently wrong with meat, unless you're an ethical vegan. Even red meat. Of course it's better to have a variety to get a variety of omega fats. But if beef or venison is accessible and inexpensive it's not worse or better than chicken or fish.
I like you.0 -
I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?
To learn.
I don't have time and money to waste doing the wrong things. I'm 40 this year with a few injuries including a separated shoulder and I work 10 hours a day, soon to be 12 hours a day if I get this new job that I applied for because we have a baby on the way. I get 20-30 minutes a day to train and that is it.
I don't want 5k calories that I cannot burn off or tons of red meat which I read is unhealthy, I want to stay lean but get some muscle too and just be strong and healthy, not a power lifter or bodybuilder.
I'm trying to eat a good balanced diet and I want to boost my protein intake with one product I know works. The science behind it does interest me, and I don't think asking these questions is over complicating anything, I'm simply just trying to learn what I can. I bought a couple months worth of whey and EAA so there's no big rush for me, I have time to learn everything about them, and even casein, creatine or anything else that has being mentioned too.
Why would you eat 5k calories a day? There's no purpose to it nor have I seen it suggested in this thread. If you want to be lean. Eat at a deficit. If you want to gain muscle and get stronger. Eat in a surplus.
Yeaaaaaah sorry I ain't buying the 12 hour days. I work 10-14 hours a day. My longest to date is 19.5 with a 17.5 in close second. All of these shifts being out of town up to 650km away from home. Further adding to the inconvenience of making it to the gym by having to live in a hotel room for those days with even less access to the ability to cook meals and do laundry without much effort or time. I still however find the time to get a 1-1.5 hour workout in. You have the time, you just have to make it. The one woman on here who literally had no time. Was raising 2 kids. Working 2 jobs and completion post secondary education. That is a hero.
If you want to avoid injury. Yes diet matters but more so you need to look at your training. Frequency, volume, rest, FORM, I suggest a structured program.
Not attacking you. Just trying to say that there is almost always a way.5 -
Nutrition is only one part of the equation. If you managed to eat "perfect" and your training sucks you'll never make progress. I've seen your food diary and you are doing fine with protein, so stop worrying. You're going to miss the forest for the trees. Think big picture.3
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I hear stuff about incomplete proteins, and if you read through you'd know that I can't eat plant proteins. Protein isn't just protein, clearly there are all different types.
WHEY IS COMPOSED OF EAAS. You say you're listening but clearly you are not. Protein is protein. Hit your daily *kitten* protein goal and keep moving forward. Like I said. The only game changing results you will find will be at the tip of a needle.
I was going to ask about balance of amino acids in whey, I read you only need so much of some and more of the others, but I'll do my own research. I've learned enough now to go it alone.
I did read about the plant proteins. Clearly you didn't read about supplementing a complete diet with whey. So eating beef And poultry regularly along with supplementing with milk proteins. Then you will have no incomplete proteins. Why are you making it so complicated?
To learn.
I don't have time and money to waste doing the wrong things. I'm 40 this year with a few injuries including a separated shoulder and I work 10 hours a day, soon to be 12 hours a day if I get this new job that I applied for because we have a baby on the way. I get 20-30 minutes a day to train and that is it.
I don't want 5k calories that I cannot burn off or tons of red meat which I read is unhealthy, I want to stay lean but get some muscle too and just be strong and healthy, not a power lifter or bodybuilder.
I'm trying to eat a good balanced diet and I want to boost my protein intake with one product I know works. The science behind it does interest me, and I don't think asking these questions is over complicating anything, I'm simply just trying to learn what I can. I bought a couple months worth of whey and EAA so there's no big rush for me, I have time to learn everything about them, and even casein, creatine or anything else that has being mentioned too.
if you dont want to eat red meat then dont. you can get high amounts of protein from lean boneless,skinless chicken breast,(or any chicken or that matter), turkey,fish,seafood, dairy has decent amounts of protein. and things like that. no need to buy products if you dont have the money to waste. you wont waste it on food that can give you the same amino acids.
as far as red meat being unhealthy Im not sure what the current studies are on that topic. but I eat some red meat once in awhile. for me if I dont get enough protein in, in a day from food. I eat a protein bar or drink a protein drink(powerful drinks,shamrock farms has a protein milk also that is 20-30g of protein for 190 calories a bottle).I buy those to keep on hand when I dont get enough protein from meats/fish,etc that day. I have a tub of protein powder which I use sparingly. I used to make protein smoothies but slacked off on that as Im trying to eat more foods with protein and use my money on those things instead.on a good day I can get in over 150g of protein a day. I dont do plant protein products as I dont like the taste of them.0
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