Hypothyroidism
jenn_ifer219
Posts: 1 Member
Does anyone else have it and if so please tell me you’ve lost weight since finding out? I’ve been busting my butt off working out but I feel like it’s not working.
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To lose weight, you have to eat less than you burn, aka be in a calorie deficit. You don't have to exercise, even though exercise can add to the calorie deficit. To be able to measure your weightloss, you need weeks of regular weigh-ins.8
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I've been hypothyroid for many years. Once your hormone levels are stable, you will be exactly the same as anyone else.
For that matter, the difference in calories between treated and untreated hypo weight-loss is insignificant...like less than 5% - for most women that's less than 100 calories per day - BUT when you are untreated you are so tired and lethargic and depressed that you will naturally and instinctively eat more food trying to feel better.
You can still lose weight just like anyone else. Set your calories and stick with them. I lost 75+ pounds at about the rate/calories Myfitnesspal suggested.11 -
I've been hypothyroid for about 17 years, and lost 50+ pounds in less than a year, a couple of years ago, and have stayed in a healthy weight range since.
I'd second the view that, once our thyroid hormone level is properly stabilized with medication, losing weight is for us no more difficult (or any easier
) than it is for anyone else. That means that the things that prevent others from losing weight - inaccurate food or exercise logging, unlogged cheat days, etc. - will also prevent us from losing weight.
For most people, controlling intake (eating less, keeping it nutritious for satiation and health) has more influence over body weight than does how much we work out. I was very active exercise-wise for a dozen years while obese, even competing as an athlete, and it was super easy to out-eat the exercise calories. When I started managing my intake, and hitting a reasonable calorie goal most days, I found I lost weight quite handily.
Despite being hypothyroid, I found I could eat more calories than MFP suggested, while achieving any given rate of weight loss. That's unusual - most people are close to what MFP predicts, just a few very far above/below - but it's evidence that hypothyroidism isn't the kiss of death for calorie burn.
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I have it has been tough for me have lost almost 30lbs it can be done but its rough. Add me if you want1
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I've been sans thyroid since 2000. I put on 70 lbs over 14 years...had nothing to do with my thyroid (or lack thereof...), but everything to do with me eating as if I was running 6 mi/day and swimming 2 mi/day, only not running or swimming. I found MFP in 2014 and lost 60 lbs the first year by maintaining a moderate calorie deficit and gradually increasing my activity.
It is critical to understand why hypothyroidism does and does not do.
First of all the impact to metabolism is minimal. ~5% reduction is the most extreme cases and this is in thyroidectomy patients going from full supplementation to no supplementation.
What this may do, along with any other hormone imbalance is impact your appetite signals, so you have a sudden urge to eat when you are not hungry. Learning the difference between hunger and appetite is critical to success.
Often weight (body fat %) is masked by water weight. Whenever your body undergoes stress it causes an increase in cellular uptake - water weight. Any hormone imbalance triggers this, but this is temporary and if properly hydrated will resolve in ~5-7 days.
Don't "bust your butt". Log your caloric intake carefully, especially in the beginning. Exercise moderately and consistently. It is of far more value to walk 30 mins/everyday than it is to kill yourself in a cardio session once a week. Approach this gradually and make small changes which have a dramatic impact over time.6 -
I've been hypothyroid (Hashimoto's) for literally decades. Lost 75 lbs 3 years ago (and I'm in my 60's) and have been in maintenance ever since.
Once you are on the proper level of medication, your weight management experience will be no different than someone without thyroid issues. Many people use their under-active thyroid as an excuse for their inability to manage their weight.
It is literally just an excuse. If you are being appropriately medicated and you're still not losing weight, you're simply eating too much.
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I was told, 25+ years ago I was hypothyroid and would have to take levothyroxine for the rest of my life. I'm currently fighting that prognosis, have manged to get my BP tabs off my list - one of them caused more trouble than good.
It was only thanks to MFP, I was able to determine that my potassium intake was low. I challenged my DR's and they admitted that was it was from a blood test, but it had only ' just ' dropped below normal ! Didn't think it was important to tell me.
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Since supplementing , I'm fine, to the point of questioning the original prognosis. Was told to cut certain foods when I had high cholesterol, the very same cuts which denied me of my T3 conservation. Taken my health into my own hands and am better for having done it.3 -
stevephi01 wrote: »I was told, 25+ years ago I was hypothyroid and would have to take levothyroxine for the rest of my life. I'm currently fighting that prognosis, have manged to get my BP tabs off my list - one of them caused more trouble than good.
It was only thanks to MFP, I was able to determine that my potassium intake was low. I challenged my DR's and they admitted that was it was from a blood test, but it had only ' just ' dropped below normal ! Didn't think it was important to tell me.
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Since supplementing , I'm fine, to the point of questioning the original prognosis. Was told to cut certain foods when I had high cholesterol, the very same cuts which denied me of my T3 conservation. Taken my health into my own hands and am better for having done it.
Does the NHS not give you a copy of your blood test results? Practice in my part of the US is for the labs to make a report available to any patient who asks for it, with the results and the labs reference ranges so we can see what's high/low/borderline/solidly normal. Typically, it's free, sometimes online.
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stevephi01 wrote: »I was told, 25+ years ago I was hypothyroid and would have to take levothyroxine for the rest of my life. I'm currently fighting that prognosis, have manged to get my BP tabs off my list - one of them caused more trouble than good.
It was only thanks to MFP, I was able to determine that my potassium intake was low. I challenged my DR's and they admitted that was it was from a blood test, but it had only ' just ' dropped below normal ! Didn't think it was important to tell me.
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Since supplementing , I'm fine, to the point of questioning the original prognosis. Was told to cut certain foods when I had high cholesterol, the very same cuts which denied me of my T3 conservation. Taken my health into my own hands and am better for having done it.
I don't know your specifics, but typically this is true - once supplemented it is for life, largely due to the limitations of the gland. Glands don't improve over time and they don't get better through diet or exercise directly. Hormones specifically are influenced by body mass, so the simplest solution is always to get weight under control. Often it's not the hormonal imbalance which is causing weight gain, but weight gain that causes hormonal imbalance. It's a viscous cycle.
It is always critical to see the whole picture and have conversations with your physicians so that everyone gets a full picture and understanding of the variables and what they mean.3 -
Does the NHS not give you a copy of your blood test results?
It is done via the Dr's, rather than from the lab (unless we have a private lab draw), mine never gave a printed copy but were happy with a verbal reply to a specific question.
Recently (3~4 months) our records have been made available online, not only test results but our visits and other treatments. It was due to this I was made aware that not all my tests were reported. If I not had online access I would have only had a receptionist telling me everything's OK, so am very pleased there is now access to the system. The result display does show the upper and lower limits alongside our number.
Before the blood is drawn we need to verbally identify ourselves and asked to make sure the vile has our correct details on it/them. I've now learnt to ask what tests have been ordered as these as well as the results are transferred electronically.
I needed to be re-tested for the results which were not displayed (odd as the receptionist and Dr's could see what they were - possibly a referral query)
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I don't know your specifics, but typically this is true - once supplemented it is for life, ... Often it's not the hormonal imbalance which is causing weight gain, but weight gain that causes hormonal imbalance.
It is always critical to see the whole picture ...
I believe this is case in fact, the initial prescribing Dr hadn't looked at the entire picture - which looking back could have been influenced by my late wife who was once a nurse and previously married to a DR so felt she was 'qualified'. I know she was privy to at least some of my medical records, either by her insistence or the info being offered by my DR - which just so happened to be hers too.
A year or two prior to my thyroid diagnosis I had developed extremely high cholesterol and was put on an aggressively restrictive 'diet' which I stuck to for very many years to come, even after my cholesterol levels were within limits. I am now of the opinion this 'diet' kicked off my thyroid symptoms., I had cut out ever eating a whole or even part of an egg for example. This all happened in South Africa.
When I moved to the UK, my DR took my thyroid 'at face value' and prescribed the levo at the level I had been taking.
I mentioned my blood re-test in my previous post, it was to also include an autoimmune check which has come back negative. This is a prerequisite for thyroid treatment here.
My Dr has told me I could have had/have Transitional Hypothyroidism and wants to reduce my dose level and test again. I guess now I'm on the radar he is obliged to do the tests. I chose to see the snr partner for this and hopefully get an experienced view on treatment.
Thank you for your reply and comments
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It can be done. You need patience and commitment. It is slower with my experience just need to be very careful on how many calories you eat3
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I haven't had an active/working/living thyroid since roughly 2009 and have since relied completely on thyroid medication to supplement the dead gland. I did put a lot of weight on during the months that followed my thyroid being ablated and added more weight during my pregnancy with my son. I am just now trying to lose the weight I added back then and so far I find my weightloss is pretty well on par with the average person's weight loss. I lose on average 1-2 pounds lost per week when I have a consistent deficit of calories taken in vs. burned.
The one thing I've noticed is that my body tends to be far more sensitive to certain things than it was before. Sodium is a good example. If I get anywhere close to my daily goal calculated by MFP, I will retain 2-3 lbs of water into the next day. Carbs are death, even small quantities. A small 'mess up' for me typically results in a big mess up on the scale. To be fair, I have no idea if this has anything to do with my thyroid or more to do with my age given the last time I worked on a significant weight loss, was nearly a decade ago. I'd take that one with a grain of salt.2 -
This thyroid thing is far more complicated than we are given credit for understanding how it effects ourselves.
The NHS, has a series of hoops one needs to jump through before you can have treatment, knowing there can be/are antibodies and not testing for them!! Thank you Steve, for the information one can see one's blood results now.
I had to go out on the alternative side because the only t4 supplements in tablet for contain dairy, (I privately tested positive for casein intolerance, the dairy protein) this explained why I was worse on the pills than off, the first time it was tried for me.
The second, diagnosis came trough the region immunology department, referred back to local endo for thyroid treatment, I refused the pills begged for something different, I was permitted children's liquid only to discover it is preserved with paraben...……. another of my reactions its often unacknowledged as a preservative. I'm alternative full heartedly from there on out, fortunately self funding, though I paid into the NHS all my reduced working life thanks to being undiagnosed hypo. I was sick of being sick and being told to, I kid you not, "live with it"- no matter how distressing the pile of symptoms were, swollen tongue, toxic build up so my mouth would not close easily and way more, chemical sensitivity, anything from news print to laundry residue, forget perfumes, interior and exterior paints and preparations including glue, salicylate sensitivity to the extent I could not eat as I wanted to. Forget going out. I did not fall into any of the available boxes permitted to me.
NICE the body who dictate which medications and systems can be available within the NHS will not permit t3 supplements or NDT. nor do they encourage anything but blindly taking the only medication which "always works" but from experience, not in every situation.
For me the things which really helped were, removing amalgam fillings, going low copper, high copper levels can contribute to candida inflammations particularly in women, eliminating personal triggers which caused the antibodies, changing my diet, eliminating dairy, and eliminating added sugar, including, hci and pepsin, to create more stomach acid, (often lacking in the elderly), as well as using other digestive aids like enzymes and psyllium husks to ensure faster transit, and taking other supplements to facilitate conversion t4 to t3. Even consuming lower carb than MFP suggests, insulin resistance can be part of this thyroid puzzle. There is so much one can do to help one's self.
Many, even doctors do not consider adrenal insufficiency exists, yet the adrenals can be under stress as can the pituitary gland which shows up in thyroid function, this gland seems to be where there is a cross over and it can try to fill the gap in other glands performance. In circumstance where these glands are compromised exercise distresses them more particularly if one works out to the n-th degree.
May I suggest you become proactive in your care. Read from your national Thyroid support sites and charities, they hold a wealth of relevant information for everyone. Follow your batch of however many of the possible 300 generally attributed to being hyperthyroid and do what is right for you.
Under medical supervision I've wasted years of my life under par, your numbers are in the normal range, for whom, not me, not knowing I had antibodies too. Now I'm getting ready to fly, making the best of the years I have left with 9 grandchildren and 2 gt grandsons by the end of the summer.
Its your life, read what you need to, only do what is right for you and go for it. I'm pleased to say, its never too late. most of all, Never give up.6 -
kommodevaran wrote: »To lose weight, you have to eat less than you burn, aka be in a calorie deficit. You don't have to exercise, even though exercise can add to the calorie deficit. To be able to measure your weightloss, you need weeks of regular weigh-ins.
Just an addendum to this as well. Take your meds consistently, (if you prescribed some that is) with plenty of water and wait as long as you can before eating or drinking anything.
I'm hypothyroid, (6 years) and taking Synthroid. I had Graves Disease (10+ years) before going for 2 treatments of radiation.
Doing the above, I lost 160lbs. I never would have been able to do it without replacement hormone though. Even now, I stall out completely if my dosage is incorrect.1 -
I see a few woo's to the last comment, if they were not meant as a total disagreement, my apologies.
This is an international forum, what is permissible in one part of the world is not in another, whilst t3 medication is the cure for some, there are many on here who do not have that access and are forced to seek other ways.
Also, info changes so toady's best practice could well be tomorrow's 'poison', let us bear that in mind - I believe was my case, sort out this problem and create another.May I suggest you become proactive in your care.
Wherever you may reside, this has to be the best advice
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To the former point, taking the meds consistently and accurately is a huge deal. Taking them is part of my morning routine, and I take them roughly the same time, in the same way, each day. I have to be very careful with my multi-vitamin to ensure they do not contain calcium, and any supplement I take that does have calcium, needs to wait 4 hours before I take it. I've lost 49 pounds since February, so it hasn't been a huge barrier so far. Incase its of interest, I use Armour Thyroid as the synthetic meds didn't seem to work very well for me.1
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After I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's in 2008, I lost about 45 lbs. It took me about a year and a half (I averaged 2-3 lbs/month). In order to lose, I had to cut my calories down to about 1400 and I was running, hiking, and/or doing Take Bo every day for at least 1/2 hour (I did not eat back my exercise calories). Once I reached my goal weight, I maintained for a while but eventually I began eating more because I found it difficult to consistently eat only the 1600 I was maintaining on after 18 months of such restriction. I have since gained most of it back. Between my Hashimoto's, depression, and anxiety, it is difficult for me to get back to that mindset where I was so motivated to lose. It can be done, but for me it was VERY slow. I am a firm believer in the fact that no 2 people are alike and it's not as cut and dry as some people make it out to be. My doctors have all told me weight loss is more difficult for me due to my Hashimoto's and some have suggested that I may be better off health-wise staying a bit heavier rather than cutting calories to the point I had to when I previously lost weight (which was under doctor supervision). Good luck and know if you do struggle, you're not alone!0
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Thank you - to those who know my life experience to be woo. (You have no knowledge of me, nor the hours of research in open to the public scientific papers from reputable institutions, including reading Thyroid support sites, keeping up with the developing science of all things endocrine which has been life saving for me)
It is essential for the long suffering sole, the long undiagnosed thyroid affected person to do in order to regain a life, rather than continually, doing what you are told by a Doctor who insists, he/she knows best, with 300 accredited symptoms which now mascaraed under the guise of other modern illnesses the boxes for which many of us still do not fit into; one needs to find your personal relief. At 69 my life is of better quality than at 29, Think on that, please. A better quality of life approaching 70, over that when half my age! All those wasted years!
For me additional weight has been in the mix it was never the "be all and end all" of my health issues, it was merely another painful symptom. Discovering why my body was so bloated and reactive has been grounded in poor endocrine function, the inability of my body to eliminate toxins, which other in very good health do not need to consider, let alone make the centre of one's existence and self care. I lost most of the bloating before I came to alternative medication by gently addressing underlying endocrine issues.
Being told, your numbers are within "normal range" is discrimination. Stop the Thyroid Madness, explanes in some detail the establishment of those number, how the underlying testing was flawed. The concept, using discarded blood samples over a weekend made good sense, what did not was the removal of any none personal information relating to the sample, was the person on thyroid medication? which kind of medication was it? does the donation of that sample have any family history of thyroid conditions and if so what were they? Since this all happened in the days before computers it would have complicated the scientific activity but would have yielded a better set of numbers to assay against.
The NHS like several health systems only test for tsh and t4. Even the scientist who created these tests is of the opinion they are being used incorrectly. Some years ago he was taking part in a broadcast health program decrying the misuse of his tests! I really wish I could remember his name.
What matter to me is that those who have their lives damaged by poor endocrine function find a way to help themselves. woo me all you like. What I write is always grounded in present science.5 -
HI, I note with interest that a lot of replies say as long as you are on your meds you are the same as anybody else. I would have to largely dispute that as in the UK there is no standard 'level' as to what is 'normal' ; if you are still feeling tired etc, then get the level of meds increased if you can.
Having had a serious thyroid deficiency for nearly 40 years I would also totally disagree that carbs are all bad. The Thyroid controls all manner of functions and Diabetes is a much greater risk as a result, according to my GP. I invested in a blood sugar monitor years ago (the sort diabetics use) and if my blood sugar level creeps over where it should be then I am especially careful until it is back where it should be.
Healthy, balanced eating which includes the right carbs, minimal processed food and above all exercise, are crucial in my experience
I am loving been able to keep my food diary here and have a fitbit which keeps track of my exercise and updates automatically. I would second all comments about weighing food, don't guess and regular exercise0 -
I have hypothyroidism,( and if it helps, am also a nurse.) I've had hypothyroidism for nearly 20 years, and I've lost about 60 lbs over the last 2.5 years. I'd like to chime in with those people who've said that weight loss is very possible, so long as you're taking your thyroid medication consistently and at an effective dose. Take it when you first wake up, at least 30 minutes before food and 4 hours before vitamin/mineral supplements.
My other pro tip: Listen to your body and try to learn its cues for when you need the meds adjusted. Just a few months ago, I was constantly tired and getting cold super easily, which are my 2 biggest cues. Sure enough, my thyroid levels were out of whack.
Good luck with your goals! 1 -
OP, you might be seeing that it's not working because busting your butt off is actually kinda counter-productive? Think about it. If you have hypothyroidism, why would you want to put your body into overwork, tap out your thyroid and as a result change how your body handles fat? Working out vigorously just exhausts me and it wasn't until I cut back on exercising that I'm now seeing a drop.
.At 69 my life is of better quality than at 29, Think on that, please. A better quality of life approaching 70, over that when half my age!
This and several other mentions in your posts Fuzzipeg, (insulin resistance, dairy intolerance, candida flares in women) make me wonder if you ever considered getting tested for PCOS? The symptoms (including weight gain) often over lap and hypothyroidism is one of the major co-morbidities for the syndrome, plus candida can be a complication of it due to the excess sugar the body takes longer to process. PCOS symptoms also become reduced post-menopause. Forgive me if I'm making assumptions here that you're female but reading your posts hit on several issues I'm far too familiar with in my PCOS support groups.
But amen to that Thyroid Madness. The NHS is choice word, choice word about diagnosing hypothyroidism. Totally bonkers comes across as an acceptable translation, they allow *twice* as high a TSH count as the States seems like. Working through the NHS is even more irritating when you didn't grow up in the system. I'd be going private right now to see an endocrinologist like I've been begging to the last year, except I haven't the faintest clue how to do it in the UK.0 -
aresvallis wrote: »except I haven't the faintest clue how to do it in the UK.
If you have private insurance, I'd start with them. Some only deal with a panel of Dr's and specialists. Find an endocrinologist convenient to you or one who has been recommended in the specialist fora you use. Contact the specialist and ask for the information required for a referral from your Dr. If your NHS Dr won't write the referral then maybe also ask the endocrinologist practice for a Dr they could recommend to give you the referral.
If you are in or close to London try one of the Harley Street specialists, they are geared up for an international clientele and they know how to charge unfortunately.
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The principal problem for me was having allocated doctors who would not actually engage with me regarding my health; so much comes under the heading of "get on and live with these issues". We have 10 minutes at an appointment to get all our points across.
I was once told I had an enlarged liver, the advice was not to eat so much. I was not over eating, I did visit the nurse allocated to direct diet and knew more than she. Many years later I was tested for liver function, the results showed no damage, but my symptoms were indicative of poor toxin elimination. Several specialists have come out and said the tests for liver function only show well established damage.
Thank you, aresvalllis for your consideration. I had considered PCOS could have been one of my issues but it was never picked up. Extended painful cycles disregarded as completely normal. I was even told, "what do you expect, you are a woman,...…… again live with it". Came down to those damnable boxes again and what NICE the body which decides what treatments can be available because they are cost effective decides.
I have while writing this, read up on the potential issues associated with PCOS, do not go way with the surgical removal of the female organs. There are many tests which are not done here, it is as if, no consideration is given to the preventative strategies available to reduce uterine and breast cancers, any cancers, we have to open our own eyes and see for ourselves. For example too high sugars, not only added ones in the diet can create anaerobic cell conditions which is nurturing of cell mutation and the onset of cancers. Its in the scientific evidence but not in General Practice, yet.
Here, we can go private. If you have the money or the insurances you can get to private hospitals. There are some private doctors, there is no gaurenttee they will be any more responsive than those in the NHS itself. Many of the endo's who do private work also work in the NHS. Those who spoke out loudest for better ways to address endocrine problems are were disparaged volubly by the medical profession and in the press. I fear the baby is out with the bath water now we have a two tiered system, like it or not for those who can afford to pay and those who lived normal lives with few savings. To generalise the system is not fleet of foot enought to keep up with modern develepoments in health. Some departments are only now realising the female system will react differently to medications tried successfully on the male form. We are one species but the female is not weaker nor less complicated than the male.
I want anyone who suspects thyroid/endocrine issues in themselves, particularly those who are rebuffed time and time again, to take their lives into their own hands, read as much as they can follow reputable science as it relates to them and go for it. We have first hand knowledge of our own bodies, we are capable of objectivity as well as subjective. Its not just in the NHS where there are short comings, short comings can be international.2 -
stevephi01 wrote: »aresvallis wrote: »except I haven't the faintest clue how to do it in the UK.
If you have private insurance, I'd start with them.
I do not and even though I'm used to the prices of PI in the States, the quotes here were ridiculously high for my age and non-smoker status.
I'm six hours away from London, and I have to deal with the Welsh system which has been significantly overrun the last few years. It's very frustrating.The principal problem for me was having allocated doctors who would not actually engage with me regarding my health; so much comes under the heading of "get on and live with these issues". We have 10 minutes at an appointment to get all our points across.
Glad to know it's not just me and there really is something odd about the way doctors don't listen here. I feel I'm missing out not being able to get second opinions in the NHS. There also seems to be a very big pressure to do what they want or not get treatment at all. That's already happened to me. An American doctor would give me choices in treatment if there were any, and follow through on what I picked.1 -
Ah Cymru (Wales). You would have no doubt heard the term Postcode lottery, service delivery ought to be the same everywhere, except it isn't.
I liken it to qualified people forced into a call centre style of working. They have to stick to the script and step through one medication before being able to get onto another one, the same is applied to trying to find what is wrong with you. The first has to disagree with you before moving onto the second and if lucky there may be a third option, no jumping steps. If you don't fit the script profile, well they don't know what to do - they are not allowed to think outside the box.
Sorry that's one size fits all for you. think you can guess I'm used to a system more like the US than the UK.
I had an ACJ disruption (torn ligaments in my shoulder), was X-ray'd and was told it isn't dislocated. What is it then? I don't know but it isn't dislocated, here have a cloth sling and come back in 3 weeks! If I went private straight away, I'd have had an operation there and then - had a week's window of opportunity - lost that and in fact discharged myself two years later when they were wasting time on me doing nothing. I did eventually go private for a second opinion, by then it was too late and I could see the surgeon planning his next Bahamas trip on his profiting out of me - so I dropped that idea.0 -
I hoped my whole life that my problem was "glandular" and when I was diagnosed with Hypothyroid I thought that would "fix" my problem. Truthfully I felt better once medicated but didn't lose weight until I dieted at 59 years of age. It took me two years but I'm now at a normal weight and it was worth the effort. The medication got rid of the constipation and headaches and I don't feel bone weary tired anymore but to get thin I had to diet.3
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cmriverside wrote: »I've been hypothyroid for many years. Once your hormone levels are stable, you will be exactly the same as anyone else.
For that matter, the difference in calories between treated and untreated hypo weight-loss is insignificant...like less than 5% - for most women that's less than 100 calories per day - BUT when you are untreated you are so tired and lethargic and depressed that you will naturally and instinctively eat more food trying to feel better.
You can still lose weight just like anyone else. Set your calories and stick with them. I lost 75+ pounds at about the rate/calories Myfitnesspal suggested.
One of the most positive things I've ever read about hypothyroid. Encouraging.1 -
jenn_ifer219 wrote: »Does anyone else have it and if so please tell me you’ve lost weight since finding out? I’ve been busting my butt off working out but I feel like it’s not working.
I was diagnosed toward the end of April. Started treating it in early May. I have not really lost weight yet. I have not been checked yet to see what my levels are now. I understand that it could take awhile to find the right dosage level.
I feel better than I did.0 -
aresvalis, I'm so very sorry. There is no treatment other than t4 in the UK. There is no hypoallergenic version available either. If you do not respond well to what they give you and the only option you feel you have is to go without, they are happy for you to do that. (Thank you all the old fuddy duddy Doctors involved in NICE) I'm bitter for your having experiences similar to mine.
You mention the Welsh system. I'm trying to think of the doctor in the borders. Dr Sarah Myhill. She is private, I have no idea how expensive she is, or if her list is open it was closed at one time. I don't know if this can help you.0
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