Vegan vs Keto
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southerngirl1966 wrote: »
This is a good guide for people who are ethically committed to veganism and need to lower their carbohydrates for medical reasons, but I don't see any evidence that OP *needs* to practice this level of restriction in order to meet their goals. It's a lot, especially for someone who isn't currently practicing either way of living. It seems like trying to practice this level of restriction without a solid justification is just setting oneself up for failure and eliminating a lot of nutrient-rich foods for no good reason.4 -
The China Study/Forks over Knives are both bad science. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/6
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Vegan Vs Keto Death Match Live at Caesers Palace!4
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What about vegan keto though, are they on team vegan or team keto.1
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fuzzylop72 wrote: »What about vegan keto though, are they on team vegan or team keto.
They're on team over-kill, but they feel really, really special.
(
). 10 -
as with most things .. people seen to take a binary approach .. whats better cadio or weights, seriously, do BOTH .. should I reduce weight from my bike, or lose wight from my body, again DO BOTH !
now its pretty much accepted that the best thing for your body is a varied diet ... so in answer to the question of shall I do a keto or vegan diet, the best option is DO BOTH !!!! .... just make sure you keep your calories in a deficit and you will lose weight whilst benefiting from healthy nutritious meat protein, good fats and lots of vegetables and legumes.
I appreciate your enthusiasm here and I agree most things aren’t binary. Weight lifting and cardio are both absolutely beneficial to an exercise plan.
But in the sense of doing both vegan and keto, it’d be super difficult and a diet I know I could not sustain long term. And because I’m looking to become healthier by losing weight and keeping it off, it’s important to me that I can foresee myself eating a certain way for life not just a few months. Also it’d be quite impossible the way you’ve broken it down. On a vegan diet, meat could not be included. And I believe keto kinda sways away from legumes.
Why restrict any demonstrably healthy foods, if your goals are overall health, weight management, and long-term disease prevention, and as long as you don't have any relevant food allergies or sensitivities? There aren't health bonus points for a named, special way of eating.**
Personally, I'm a believer in evolution-tested foods: Things large groups of humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, and thriving (at least long enough to breed ). I'm also a believer in good nutrition. To me, that means enough protein, enough fats (with a preference for ones from things like nuts, seeds, avocados, olive oil, etc.), and a boatload of daily servings of veggies and fruit.
There are no guarantees of health or disease prevention for any of us, but well-rounded nutrition (plus exercise, and other good habits that have been mentioned) seems like the best way to improve one's odds.
**Yeah, I've been vegetarian for almost 44 years. Hypocrite? Nah. It really wasn't related to health, not back in 1974 anyway. 3 -
You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.0 -
You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.
I brought it up because above you wrote it was a vegan diet that could be very healthy. I wanted to make sure you were aware that it wasn't vegan because this isn't the first time I've seen you referring to Ornish and his plan as such.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.
I brought it up because above you wrote it was a vegan diet that could be very healthy. I wanted to make sure you were aware that it wasn't vegan because this isn't the first time I've seen you referring to Ornish and his plan as such.
I in fact did not realize that he allowed some dairy and eggs on his diet, so you are right - I did not know he was vegetarian. I read his book so long ago, I guess that slipped my mind.
When I think of Ornish I think of a whole food and plant based diet. That's what I was hoping to get across. I did mess up on the vegan part of it.
.... Are there any vegan studies that have a whole foods based diet that has the same success in helping CVD?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.
I brought it up because above you wrote it was a vegan diet that could be very healthy. I wanted to make sure you were aware that it wasn't vegan because this isn't the first time I've seen you referring to Ornish and his plan as such.
I in fact did not realize that he allowed some dairy and eggs on his diet, so you are right - I did not know he was vegetarian. I read his book so long ago, I guess that slipped my mind.
When I think of Ornish I think of a whole food and plant based diet. That's what I was hoping to get across. I did mess up on the vegan part of it.
.... Are there any vegan studies that have a whole foods based diet that has the same success in helping CVD?
Since he recommends the consumption of fish, I don't even know if I'd call him vegetarian.
I am not particularly interested in the WFPB diet so I'm not sure what the studies would show in that regard. I do know that at least one study has shown that vegetarians have a statistically significant lower risk of heart disease, but it doesn't break out between vegetarians/vegans or those have been following a WFPB diet (nor does it distinguish between non-vegetarians who may be practicing different styles of eating) so it's probably irrelevant for the purposes of this conversation.
As far as helping CVD, I think Ornish's work demonstrates one possible way to do that, one that is certainly compatible with veganism but isn't itself veganism.0 -
OP, you can eat a healthy vegan diet, and you can eat an unhealthy vegan diet.
You can eat a healthy keto diet, and you can eat an unhealthy keto diet.
You can also eat a very healthy diet that is neither vegan or keto.
To lose weight you need a calorie deficit, regardless of what foods you eat. Different people will find different eating styles make sticking to their calorie goal easier.
Picking a diet you enjoy, you can eat in a balanced and varied fashion, is practical, and keeps you at the right calorie level is the key.
Totally!!
I am actually vegan keto, vegan (plant based) for ethical reasons and keto for health reasons.
One thing I can say is that neither of these are for what I like to call “lazy dieters” in order to ensure you hit your MICROS and eat a variety of foods you really have to plan and cook. It’s super easy to end up eating the same things every day and end up deficient. I would actually recommend if you are interested in both try low carb high fat vegan which allows for more variety.
It’s frustrating when I hear people think that a “vegan” diet will make you lose weight. Veganism isn’t even a diet, it’s a ethical lifestyle. Eating planted based is a diet. It’s math like anything, calories in and out, eat according to your goals. Some styles of eating work better for certain people. Focus on what’s sustainable.3
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