Vegan vs Keto
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »ThePoeToaster wrote: »OK, first of all, VEGANISM is not necessarily healthy. You can eat a veggie burger from McDonald's with fries and a coke and wash it down with Oreos and be vegan. If you're looking to prevent disease, read "The China Study," and watch "Forks over Knives." Any dietician worth their salt will tell you that Keto is a short-term solution and prolonged usage can cause organ damage. So says the NEJM, anyway. A whole foods, plant-based diet is what you want for disease prevention. IM me if you want more info.
Any noteworthy evidence to support that claim?
Honestly, I’ve tried to find some and have yet to. Most research says that keto diet hasn’t been studied long enough to show any long term effects.
The diets been around since the 1920’s you would have thought someone would have taken a look at it!
That’s just what I’ve come across. Suppose it doesn’t mean it’s not out there.0 -
Vegan diets are loaded with fruits and vegetables. Fruits and vegetables are generally accepted as the healthiest foods there are. It's pretty easy when you think about it.
Agree with a previous poster to check out Forks Over Knives and The China Study.17 -
In my experience people go Vegan for ethical reasons and no so much fitness/nutrition reasons. Same with Keto, people tend to go Keto because they have PCOS, Type-2 Diabetes, or Insulin Resistance. If you don't have those things it might not be worth it. I seen a lot of people do very well with the DASH Diet and the Mediterranean Diet. I did Keto and lost 30 pounds and it taught me many things. I tried to do Vegan but I had a hard time with it after a month. What are your fitness goals and then find a diet that works with that goal.0
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Better for overall, long term health. Weight loss and control and disease prevention.
Vegan is an ethical way of living and isn't just about food choices. I think what you're actually talking about is the current, popular movement to move towards a more whole foods, plant based diet (WFPB)? If so, I've been transitioning to a more plant based diet (focusing on foods like veggies/fruit, nuts and seeds, whole grains, beans etc), because there seems to be some solid research backing it up. And then more abstract things like the Blue Zones, which show similar eating trends as a WFPB woe, etc. I'm making changes to my diet because of the potential health benefits and how it may relate to longevity of life (vs eating the pretty SAD way that I have been). Will it actually make a difference-time will tell lol
I can't say anything about keto because it's not something that interests me/I've never tried it.
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ThePoeToaster wrote: »OK, first of all, VEGANISM is not necessarily healthy. You can eat a veggie burger from McDonald's with fries and a coke and wash it down with Oreos and be vegan. If you're looking to prevent disease, read "The China Study," and watch "Forks over Knives." Any dietician worth their salt will tell you that Keto is a short-term solution and prolonged usage can cause organ damage. So says the NEJM, anyway. A whole foods, plant-based diet is what you want for disease prevention. IM me if you want more info.
This is precisely the kinda info I’m looking for. Thank you! I’ve read The China Study and watched a few documentaries. I even ate a vegan diet for about 6 months last year. No dramatic weight loss because I didn’t do it properly. Not quite McD’s veggie burgers and Oreos but vegan chik’n nuggets and chips and salsa. Even so I felt a whole lot better and more energized. But if I do it again, I’d definitely do it properly - the whole foods, plant based way.
A lot of people at my work have had great success with Keto and I’ve considered giving it a try. But my major concerns were that meat just grosses me out most of the time so that would make Keto super difficult and not knowing whether it was sustainable and healthy.
It doesn't sound like you did veganism improperly. Veganism is a ethical position on animal exploitation and you're still properly vegan if you eat vegan nuggets, chips, and salsa. Some vegans may decide to practice additional restriction for health reasons, but this isn't necessary any more than it's necessary for non-vegans to avoid chips and salsa.
Eating chips and salsa doesn't negate an individual's ethical stance on animal exploitation, which is the very point of veganism.4 -
as with most things .. people seen to take a binary approach .. whats better cadio or weights, seriously, do BOTH .. should I reduce weight from my bike, or lose wight from my body, again DO BOTH !
now its pretty much accepted that the best thing for your body is a varied diet ... so in answer to the question of shall I do a keto or vegan diet, the best option is DO BOTH !!!! .... just make sure you keep your calories in a deficit and you will lose weight whilst benefiting from healthy nutritious meat protein, good fats and lots of vegetables and legumes.
If you're eating meat, you aren't doing both keto and veganism. You aren't doing veganism at all.3 -
as with most things .. people seen to take a binary approach .. whats better cadio or weights, seriously, do BOTH .. should I reduce weight from my bike, or lose wight from my body, again DO BOTH !
now its pretty much accepted that the best thing for your body is a varied diet ... so in answer to the question of shall I do a keto or vegan diet, the best option is DO BOTH !!!! .... just make sure you keep your calories in a deficit and you will lose weight whilst benefiting from healthy nutritious meat protein, good fats and lots of vegetables and legumes.
I appreciate your enthusiasm here and I agree most things aren’t binary. Weight lifting and cardio are both absolutely beneficial to an exercise plan.
But in the sense of doing both vegan and keto, it’d be super difficult and a diet I know I could not sustain long term. And because I’m looking to become healthier by losing weight and keeping it off, it’s important to me that I can foresee myself eating a certain way for life not just a few months. Also it’d be quite impossible the way you’ve broken it down. On a vegan diet, meat could not be included. And I believe keto kinda sways away from legumes.
You're making your own argument for a varied, balanced diet, it just may not have a name.1 -
Better for overall, long term health. Weight loss and control and disease prevention.
Any diet can be as healthy or unhealthy as you make it.
I'm a carnivore who eats a well balanced and varied diet to include a ton of veg and some fruit, whole grains, beans and lentils, etc. I eat a primarily whole foods diet...it's pretty healthy.
You don't have to go to one extreme or another to have a healthy diet.
Veganism is an ethical thing, not a diet thing. Vegans don't consume animal products, nor do they wear them or use products that contain them.4 -
If you want to live long and stay healthy, you should...
- be blessed with good genetics
- maintain a healthy body-weight
- do something active every day
- not smoke or do hard drugs
- manage stress and be social
- follow a generally balanced, varied diet with plenty of whole foods
Humans can thrive on a variety of different diet types and macro splits. I think most would agree that getting lots of veggies, adequate protein and cutting back on processed, sugary foods is a good approach. But there's not much harm in enjoying the not-so-healthy treats once and a while.2 -
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southerngirl1966 wrote: »
This is a good guide for people who are ethically committed to veganism and need to lower their carbohydrates for medical reasons, but I don't see any evidence that OP *needs* to practice this level of restriction in order to meet their goals. It's a lot, especially for someone who isn't currently practicing either way of living. It seems like trying to practice this level of restriction without a solid justification is just setting oneself up for failure and eliminating a lot of nutrient-rich foods for no good reason.4 -
The China Study/Forks over Knives are both bad science. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/6
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Vegan Vs Keto Death Match Live at Caesers Palace!4
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What about vegan keto though, are they on team vegan or team keto.1
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fuzzylop72 wrote: »What about vegan keto though, are they on team vegan or team keto.
They're on team over-kill, but they feel really, really special.
(
). 10 -
as with most things .. people seen to take a binary approach .. whats better cadio or weights, seriously, do BOTH .. should I reduce weight from my bike, or lose wight from my body, again DO BOTH !
now its pretty much accepted that the best thing for your body is a varied diet ... so in answer to the question of shall I do a keto or vegan diet, the best option is DO BOTH !!!! .... just make sure you keep your calories in a deficit and you will lose weight whilst benefiting from healthy nutritious meat protein, good fats and lots of vegetables and legumes.
I appreciate your enthusiasm here and I agree most things aren’t binary. Weight lifting and cardio are both absolutely beneficial to an exercise plan.
But in the sense of doing both vegan and keto, it’d be super difficult and a diet I know I could not sustain long term. And because I’m looking to become healthier by losing weight and keeping it off, it’s important to me that I can foresee myself eating a certain way for life not just a few months. Also it’d be quite impossible the way you’ve broken it down. On a vegan diet, meat could not be included. And I believe keto kinda sways away from legumes.
Why restrict any demonstrably healthy foods, if your goals are overall health, weight management, and long-term disease prevention, and as long as you don't have any relevant food allergies or sensitivities? There aren't health bonus points for a named, special way of eating.**
Personally, I'm a believer in evolution-tested foods: Things large groups of humans have been eating for centuries or millennia, and thriving (at least long enough to breed ). I'm also a believer in good nutrition. To me, that means enough protein, enough fats (with a preference for ones from things like nuts, seeds, avocados, olive oil, etc.), and a boatload of daily servings of veggies and fruit.
There are no guarantees of health or disease prevention for any of us, but well-rounded nutrition (plus exercise, and other good habits that have been mentioned) seems like the best way to improve one's odds.
**Yeah, I've been vegetarian for almost 44 years. Hypocrite? Nah. It really wasn't related to health, not back in 1974 anyway. 3 -
You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.0 -
You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »You could do vegan keto if you wanted... It would be tough. Going vegetarian is more doable.
This is from the Low Carber Daily's Launch pad (the mods are amazing!) for beginners. The group is great if you want more info.
Vegan Keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/veganketo
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/
http://veganhealth.org/
http://ketomotive.com/vegan-ketogenic-diet/
http://www.theketogenicdiet.org/low-carb-dieting-for-vegetarians-and-vegans-is-it-possible/
http://healthygamergirl.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
Vegetarian Keto
https://www.dietdoctor.com/new-vegetarian-meal-plan
https://www.dietdoctor.com/vegetarian-low-carb-keto-inspiration
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
http://vegetarianketo.blogspot.com/
http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/05/27/81-delicious-savory-low-carb-vegetarian-recipes
https://vegetarianketo.wordpress.com/
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
IMO, some vegan diets can be very healthy - mainly ones that avoid refined and highly processed grains like what Ornish advocates.
On the other hand I follow keto because the food is more enjoyable to me, low carb blunts my appetite, and keto had very quick and relevant fixes of some of my health concerns before I lost any weight at all. I've been keto for most of 3 years and feel my best the lower I get my carbs - carnivore is pretty ideal although the food gets a bit dull for me.
Others will do fine with very high carbs from whole (unrefined) carbs and low fat; just not me. Plus ethically, I few qualms about eating animals or using their products, so the ethical aspect of veganism doesn't affect me at all.
Is there a reason why you cite Ornish so much when referencing veganism? He himself isn't vegan, he recommends fish oil supplements, and his plan can include low fat dairy, egg whites, and honey.
https://www.ornish.com/proven-program/nutrition/
His is one plant based diet that shows improved health.
I brought it up because above you wrote it was a vegan diet that could be very healthy. I wanted to make sure you were aware that it wasn't vegan because this isn't the first time I've seen you referring to Ornish and his plan as such.2
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