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How does the body fuel itself?
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stanmann571 wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »
No, I basically did not. For you to think that indicates that you either have severe reading comprehension problems or your confirmation bias has made you so delusional that you hear what you want to hear.what you said basically agrees with what I've said. Whatever fuel the body is used to using is the preferred fuel.
From AnvilHeadIf glucose is available, the brain will not utilize ketones. Glucose is the preferred fuel and if it's available, the brain will use it exclusively.
This is essentially what I said. If both fuel substrates are available, the brain will use glucose. Full stop.
That is defined as preferential. It's not what one the body is used to using. That is a misinterpretation of physiology at best and a blatant misrepresentation at worst. This is where some of you who are practitioners of keto go off the deep end and lose all credibility for what could be a potentially valuable dietary tool for some. You twist the truth. Or, lose site of it.
Glucose is ALWAYS available in the body for use. Full stop.
Despite the fact that glucose is always present in the body, the brain does not always rely on glucose for fuel even though both fuels are available... well, all three fuels if you consider what @tennisdude2004 pointed out. It comes down to the main fuel source - your body is not making ketones from dietary or body fat for brain fuel purposes when you are providing it with lots of glucose.
I do not have less glucose circulating in my body than someone else of the same size who uses carbs as their primary fuel; we might even have the same blood glucose measurements - mine's around a 5.3. My brain is not preferentially using glucose as its main fuel though.
The basic glucose needs of the body is around 130g, but the basic glucose needs of someone who is fat adapted is closer to 40g. Someone on a higher carb diet could stop eating, completely, and not die before fat adapted (or within a day) because the liver can make at least 130g of glucose a day... that should be enough for the brain.... but the brain is not always using glucose for it's fuel. Even though it is always available.
And no need to start being insulting. I understand what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with you. It's not that horrible of a thing. Really.
Basal glucose requirements are always available. And when depleted to that level, your body will use a secondary fuel source for your brain..... Its cheaper than the energy required to create more glucose through glucenogenesis.
Its the difference between minimal levels for optimal levels.
I sort of agree.
Basal glucose is always available and it can more than meets our basic needs. You can see that in some people who eat keto, train keto, and still have a bit high fasting glucose the next day. I just meant to point out that when fat or ketones are used in a fat adapted individual , it's not because you've run out of glucose. Eventually fat and ketones is a well used fuel for the body.
And when did glucose become the primary fuel source for humans? I'm not really asking you, just wondering in general. Is it just because of what north Americans mostly eat for fuel? I think infants and exclusively breast fed babies are mildly ketogenic, aren't they?
IDK, I'm still of the opinion that whatever fuel your body is adapted to is the primary and "preferred" fuel for that individual. I don't think I'm stressing my body out by having it rely on fat and ketones for most fuel (even though glucose is present), nor do I think your body is unhealthy for relying on glucose most of the time (even though fat is present).Also, having huge carb refeeds prior to an event is more CKD.
Huge carb refeeds (with depleted glycogen between carb loads) is definitely more CKD. TKD is typically used more by endurance athletes - a topping off of glycogen as it were - about 30 minutes before activity. CKD is more often used for lifters trying to make gains... As I understand it.
This is the most accurate post on this thread. And other posts here by nvmomketo and tennisdude2004. The other attempts of rebuttal by the anti keto posse is just more typical glucose/cico/anti keto brainwashing attempts and old, weak, disproved theories. Get with the times and new proven science lol.... so obvious it's laughable some of the arguments people try to use against it here. Glucose is exactly that...one energy source that a lot of people's body uses cause that is what most people stuff themselves with all day long. Do you think that was humans main energy source was back in the day when you all didn't have such easy access to the garbage carbs you are feeding yourselves with now days. Do you think when humans ate mostly fat and protein their bodies metabolisms ran the same as your high carb metabolism does?? No, give your heads a shake. Common sense and common knowledge. Keeping your heads in the sands won't get rid of the truth. Give your body another source of energy/nutrition and that's what it uses for the energy. Proven by millions of low carb/keto eating people all over the world every day of the year. Time to get over it forum posse bullies lol. Glad to see so many people on this forum showing up from all over the world learning about and living keto and how glucose has been killing people all over the world in astronomically rising numbers every day. Type 2 Diabetes has never been higher and not just in adults and the elderly anymore; children and teens with it are increasing in crazy numbers like never before.
And 'there's no high performance athletes that are low carb' LOL!!! Do you not read, or do you not have a computer?
Rather than be the one to ask for sources, irony of your insults, etc....etc...etc...
I've become more interested in....how in the hell were you able to edit your post 6 hours after initially posting it?
Editing to verify that indeed, mine says we have an hour.
More likely case is that it wasn't he who edited it.
Strange, I'm not sure why....or the bigger how anyone could go in and anonymously edit user posts.
Any of the Mods could do it to remove content not deemed kosher for the site, but they usually leave a footprint that says it was edited to remove said content.
I find it strange there is no footprint or note from a mod....
Also editing to quit the obtuseness, I saw the post before going to the gym. After getting to work and catching back up on MFP shenanigans, I noticed that, from what I remember, post is basically completely re-written. Still kind of wondering how the OP edited it 6hrs later.
That is odd. I used to be a mod on a programming forum. If I edited a user's post for any reason it was required to leave a tag, or I would have gotten some major stink eye from the admins or been demoted. It was a feisty group and any whiff of playing favorites led to pages of flaming.5 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.10 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
11 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.11 -
No, I basically did not. For you to think that indicates that you either have severe reading comprehension problems or your confirmation bias has made you so delusional that you hear what you want to hear.what you said basically agrees with what I've said. Whatever fuel the body is used to using is the preferred fuel.
From AnvilHeadIf glucose is available, the brain will not utilize ketones. Glucose is the preferred fuel and if it's available, the brain will use it exclusively.
This is essentially what I said. If both fuel substrates are available, the brain will use glucose. Full stop.
That is defined as preferential. It's not what one the body is used to using. That is a misinterpretation of physiology at best and a blatant misrepresentation at worst. This is where some of you who are practitioners of keto go off the deep end and lose all credibility for what could be a potentially valuable dietary tool for some. You twist the truth. Or, lose site of it.
Glucose is ALWAYS available in the body for use. Full stop.
Despite the fact that glucose is always present in the body, the brain does not always rely on glucose for fuel even though both fuels are available... well, all three fuels if you consider what @tennisdude2004 pointed out. It comes down to the main fuel source - your body is not making ketones from dietary or body fat for brain fuel purposes when you are providing it with lots of glucose.
I do not have less glucose circulating in my body than someone else of the same size who uses carbs as their primary fuel; we might even have the same blood glucose measurements - mine's around a 5.3. My brain is not preferentially using glucose as its main fuel though.
The basic glucose needs of the body is around 130g, but the basic glucose needs of someone who is fat adapted is closer to 40g. Someone on a higher carb diet could stop eating, completely, and not die before fat adapted (or within a day) because the liver can make at least 130g of glucose a day... that should be enough for the brain.... but the brain is not always using glucose for it's fuel. Even though it is always available.
And no need to start being insulting. I understand what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with you. It's not that horrible of a thing. Really.
Basal glucose requirements are always available. And when depleted to that level, your body will use a secondary fuel source for your brain..... Its cheaper than the energy required to create more glucose through glucenogenesis.
Its the difference between minimal levels for optimal levels.
I sort of agree. Basal glucose is always available and it can more than meets our basic needs. You can see that in some people who eat keto, train keto, and still have a bit high fasting glucose the next day. I just meant to point out that when fat or ketones are used in a fat adapted individual , it's not because you've run out of glucose. Eventually fat and ketones is a well used fuel for the body.
And when did glucose become the primary fuel source for humans? I'm not really asking you, just wondering in general. Is it just because of what north Americans mostly eat for fuel? I think infants and exclusively breast fed babies are mildly ketogenic, aren't they?
IDK, I'm still of the opinion that whatever fuel your body is adapted to is the primary and "preferred" fuel for that individual. I don't think I'm stressing my body out by having it rely on fat and ketones for most fuel (even though glucose is present), nor do I think your body is unhealthy for relying on glucose most of the time (even though fat is present).Also, having huge carb refeeds prior to an event is more CKD.
Huge carb refeeds (with depleted glycogen between carb loads) is definitely more CKD. TKD is typically used more by endurance athletes - a topping off of glycogen as it were - about 30 minutes before activity. CKD is more often used for lifters trying to make gains... As I understand it.
Fat and carbs are both primary fuels... fats are used more often when you are doing daily activities and oxygen requirements aren't as high; carbs when used more (either post meal) or when there are greater oxygen requirements.
But ketones are not a primary source of fuel (which I guess is the argument). Ketones are a derivative of starvation, very low carb and extreme endurance active (as glycogen gets depleted). In the event that a person doesn't consume enough glucose, a body will convert fatty acids (~40%) and amino acids (~60%) into glucose to address those basal needs; IIRC, things like the circulatory system, heart, and a few other organs require glucose and can't utilize ketones.
Like all humans, babies will produce ketones, especially over night. But most peoples get a good amount of carbs. Carbs are a huge driver for development. In a single serving of my daughters formula, it's 2g of protein, 5g of fat, 10g carbs. As you know carbs cause lipogenesis which unlocks the cells to take in nutrients.
CKD vs TKD, it would depend on how the person is using it. If they are merely timing nutrients around a workout, or an event, than it would be a TKD diet. But if they are incorporating refeeds to increase glycogen capacity, improve insulin sensitivity, and drive better recovery and muscle development, than it would be CKD. I guess I would have to read more about his diet to see which method is used. Because with endurance athletes, glycogen depletion will occur, especially since they aren't just running at one constant speed in the "fat burning" zone. There will be changes in terrain which will require greater oxygen, which driven glycogen needs (since carbs convert to ATP easier). And since glycogen can be replenished in about 24 hours (based on how often you consume carbs and if you eat the appropriate amount; generally 100 to 150g every few hours until you hit @ bw in kg * 16), it's no uncommon to see 2 to 3 days of refeed prior to the event, consumption of glucose/fructose and maybe some proteins prior to events.
I think we understand each other. We just don't agree with each other completely. We're both coming from our own biases.
I agree that glucose and fat are primary fuels for the body (whereas glucose and ketones are used by the brain). I still think it depends on what you are eating (or how many carbs) that will determine which fuel is primary for an individual. It makes sense to me. You give a body fats and it gets really good at using fats. Give a body glucose and it gets good at using glucose.
I think glucose is called the primary fuel simply because that's what most people use. It's just a term that people assumed is correct, IMO. Often the next sentence added to that is how the brain will be starved for fuel if you consume less than 130g of glucose a day. We know that isn't right.
Absolutely, the body has a basal glucose need. Almost everything can use fats or ketones (as it's main fuel) too except RBC's. And there are other fuels that get used too. The heart , like the brain, also has a great affinity for lactate.
As to the issues of babies, I was not referring to formula but breast milk. The carbs in breast milk are a fair bit lower than formula. I think it's a little over a third carbs, but because of where they are developmentally, it appears exclusively BF'ed babies are often mildly ketogenic.
For CKD and TKD, I am not really sure where most low carbers who use them do so. I was under the impression that TKD was more common fro endurance athletes' training. They don't deplete glycogen like the more explosive sporting athletes do. Ketogeinc athletes (without carb loading CKD or TKD) have the same glycogen stores and speed of replenishment as higher carb athletes - I assume from gluconeogenesis using dietary fat and protein. CKD seems more common among lifters
If you do look into it and find anything to share, please do so. I'm always curious. Same goes for muscle recovery. I've actually read the opposite that muscle recovery appears a bit faster/easier on a ketogeinc diet. Muscle gains appear easier when more carbs are involved, definitely, but muscle recovery benefitting from carbs when one is fat adapted is not something I've ever read.
I've always wondered about this reference to primary fuel too being glucose when the majority of the day is spent burning fat as fuel source for most people on average - except for times after eating when insulin is elevated and the fat release is turned off.
To be clear, fat is still burned during elevated insulin, just not released.
Or as activity level increases into aerobic realm and higher % of carbs will start to be burned.
And that 1-4 hrs of elevated insulin after each meal (smaller more frequent meals less time, bigger less frequent more time) hardly makes the day as an average primarily carb sourced I'd say.
Now, you eat a meal with low/no carbs, obviously you have a reduced insulin window and back to fat release for energy source.
But, you eat a meal with carbs and have a lot of liver/muscle stores to refill (as you would in a diet or after high intensity exercise) - and you'll have a reduced window too. Perhaps not as short as low/no fat, but still reduced.
(and all this glycogen draining/refilling takes extra energy too, not as much as getting ketones, but still)
The studies where eating fat shows increased ability to use fat (either directly or via ketones) - especially going up into aerobic exercise level - isn't that great an increase.
IF with average macro diets show the same ability.
Specific aerobic training shows the same ability for the exercise part (perhaps not the daily part though).
Saw several comments about heart using primarily carbs, but it's actually fat too.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22436/
4 -
No, I basically did not. For you to think that indicates that you either have severe reading comprehension problems or your confirmation bias has made you so delusional that you hear what you want to hear.what you said basically agrees with what I've said. Whatever fuel the body is used to using is the preferred fuel.
From AnvilHeadIf glucose is available, the brain will not utilize ketones. Glucose is the preferred fuel and if it's available, the brain will use it exclusively.
This is essentially what I said. If both fuel substrates are available, the brain will use glucose. Full stop.
That is defined as preferential. It's not what one the body is used to using. That is a misinterpretation of physiology at best and a blatant misrepresentation at worst. This is where some of you who are practitioners of keto go off the deep end and lose all credibility for what could be a potentially valuable dietary tool for some. You twist the truth. Or, lose site of it.
Glucose is ALWAYS available in the body for use. Full stop.
Despite the fact that glucose is always present in the body, the brain does not always rely on glucose for fuel even though both fuels are available... well, all three fuels if you consider what @tennisdude2004 pointed out. It comes down to the main fuel source - your body is not making ketones from dietary or body fat for brain fuel purposes when you are providing it with lots of glucose.
I do not have less glucose circulating in my body than someone else of the same size who uses carbs as their primary fuel; we might even have the same blood glucose measurements - mine's around a 5.3. My brain is not preferentially using glucose as its main fuel though.
The basic glucose needs of the body is around 130g, but the basic glucose needs of someone who is fat adapted is closer to 40g. Someone on a higher carb diet could stop eating, completely, and not die before fat adapted (or within a day) because the liver can make at least 130g of glucose a day... that should be enough for the brain.... but the brain is not always using glucose for it's fuel. Even though it is always available.
And no need to start being insulting. I understand what you are trying to say. I just don't agree with you. It's not that horrible of a thing. Really.
Basal glucose requirements are always available. And when depleted to that level, your body will use a secondary fuel source for your brain..... Its cheaper than the energy required to create more glucose through glucenogenesis.
Its the difference between minimal levels for optimal levels.
I sort of agree. Basal glucose is always available and it can more than meets our basic needs. You can see that in some people who eat keto, train keto, and still have a bit high fasting glucose the next day. I just meant to point out that when fat or ketones are used in a fat adapted individual , it's not because you've run out of glucose. Eventually fat and ketones is a well used fuel for the body.
And when did glucose become the primary fuel source for humans? I'm not really asking you, just wondering in general. Is it just because of what north Americans mostly eat for fuel? I think infants and exclusively breast fed babies are mildly ketogenic, aren't they?
IDK, I'm still of the opinion that whatever fuel your body is adapted to is the primary and "preferred" fuel for that individual. I don't think I'm stressing my body out by having it rely on fat and ketones for most fuel (even though glucose is present), nor do I think your body is unhealthy for relying on glucose most of the time (even though fat is present).Also, having huge carb refeeds prior to an event is more CKD.
Huge carb refeeds (with depleted glycogen between carb loads) is definitely more CKD. TKD is typically used more by endurance athletes - a topping off of glycogen as it were - about 30 minutes before activity. CKD is more often used for lifters trying to make gains... As I understand it.
Fat and carbs are both primary fuels... fats are used more often when you are doing daily activities and oxygen requirements aren't as high; carbs when used more (either post meal) or when there are greater oxygen requirements.
But ketones are not a primary source of fuel (which I guess is the argument). Ketones are a derivative of starvation, very low carb and extreme endurance active (as glycogen gets depleted). In the event that a person doesn't consume enough glucose, a body will convert fatty acids (~40%) and amino acids (~60%) into glucose to address those basal needs; IIRC, things like the circulatory system, heart, and a few other organs require glucose and can't utilize ketones.
Like all humans, babies will produce ketones, especially over night. But most peoples get a good amount of carbs. Carbs are a huge driver for development. In a single serving of my daughters formula, it's 2g of protein, 5g of fat, 10g carbs. As you know carbs cause lipogenesis which unlocks the cells to take in nutrients.
CKD vs TKD, it would depend on how the person is using it. If they are merely timing nutrients around a workout, or an event, than it would be a TKD diet. But if they are incorporating refeeds to increase glycogen capacity, improve insulin sensitivity, and drive better recovery and muscle development, than it would be CKD. I guess I would have to read more about his diet to see which method is used. Because with endurance athletes, glycogen depletion will occur, especially since they aren't just running at one constant speed in the "fat burning" zone. There will be changes in terrain which will require greater oxygen, which driven glycogen needs (since carbs convert to ATP easier). And since glycogen can be replenished in about 24 hours (based on how often you consume carbs and if you eat the appropriate amount; generally 100 to 150g every few hours until you hit @ bw in kg * 16), it's no uncommon to see 2 to 3 days of refeed prior to the event, consumption of glucose/fructose and maybe some proteins prior to events.
I think we understand each other. We just don't agree with each other completely. We're both coming from our own biases.
I agree that glucose and fat are primary fuels for the body (whereas glucose and ketones are used by the brain). I still think it depends on what you are eating (or how many carbs) that will determine which fuel is primary for an individual. It makes sense to me. You give a body fats and it gets really good at using fats. Give a body glucose and it gets good at using glucose.
I think glucose is called the primary fuel simply because that's what most people use. It's just a term that people assumed is correct, IMO. Often the next sentence added to that is how the brain will be starved for fuel if you consume less than 130g of glucose a day. We know that isn't right.
Absolutely, the body has a basal glucose need. Almost everything can use fats or ketones (as it's main fuel) too except RBC's. And there are other fuels that get used too. The heart , like the brain, also has a great affinity for lactate.
As to the issues of babies, I was not referring to formula but breast milk. The carbs in breast milk are a fair bit lower than formula. I think it's a little over a third carbs, but because of where they are developmentally, it appears exclusively BF'ed babies are often mildly ketogenic.
For CKD and TKD, I am not really sure where most low carbers who use them do so. I was under the impression that TKD was more common fro endurance athletes' training. They don't deplete glycogen like the more explosive sporting athletes do. Ketogeinc athletes (without carb loading CKD or TKD) have the same glycogen stores and speed of replenishment as higher carb athletes - I assume from gluconeogenesis using dietary fat and protein. CKD seems more common among lifters
If you do look into it and find anything to share, please do so. I'm always curious. Same goes for muscle recovery. I've actually read the opposite that muscle recovery appears a bit faster/easier on a ketogeinc diet. Muscle gains appear easier when more carbs are involved, definitely, but muscle recovery benefitting from carbs when one is fat adapted is not something I've ever read.
What evidence do you have to support that keto is more beneficial for recovery? If you look at the evidence its quite the opposite. Its why you time carbs and protein around workouts. Not only are carbs anti catabolic, they support protein turnover and muscle rebuilding/building.11 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
3 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
10 -
Exclusively triggered.10 -
johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
Really? Try the first page of this post!8 -
johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
9 -
johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question. 11 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
12 -
johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Also i don’t think you mean ‘absence’ of glucose! You must mean limited availability.
4 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
8 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
I still have a few friends over at NAVSPECWARCEN and will ask the physicians if they ever considered the keto diet within any of the special operations schools.
Sure this will be taken very seriously...5 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
It kind of is. But it's also recognizing that both sides make wild accusations. Both of which should concede some of their non valid points. The data on keto and sports shows significant variations in individual performance. So yes, while there are a few that can thrive on low carb or keto while playing some sports, it certainly isn't the major like those who carb load. Preferentially, athletes can benefit from training carb load and have periods of training with lower carbs. No different than one should lift and do cardio.7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
I still have a few friends over at NAVSPECWARCEN and will ask the physicians if they ever considered the keto diet within any of the special operations schools.
Sure this will be taken very seriously...
Interestingly enough, that is some of the specialized work done by Dom D'Aginstino.3 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
I still have a few friends over at NAVSPECWARCEN and will ask the physicians if they ever considered the keto diet within any of the special operations schools.
Sure this will be taken very seriously...
I'm sure like most military diets they would recommend 50% + carbs, but then that makes sense due to soldiers work loads. Also I doubt soldiers have a choice - in the military it really is one diet fits all (with religious exceptions of course).
They would also dictate that those carbs come from fruit, veg and whole grains - not refined carbs (I'm not sure they are not fans of junk food).
If they are anything like the British Military they still believe saturated fats are bad 7
This discussion has been closed.
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