Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
How does the body fuel itself?
Options
Replies
-
cwolfman13 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
It kind of is. But it's also recognizing that both sides make wild accusations. Both of which should concede some of their non valid points. The data on keto and sports shows significant variations in individual performance. So yes, while there are a few that can thrive on low carb or keto while playing some sports, it certainly isn't the major like those who carb load. Preferentially, athletes can benefit from training carb load and have periods of training with lower carbs. No different than one should lift and do cardio.
The data for LCHF really does show significant variations, it shows decreases in performance for high intensity athletes and an increase in performance for endurance athletes.
Do you have the studies? Were they on trained or untrained individuals? Did you compare individual performance or just the mean values? Or did you read it and take the interpretation at face value?
Here is one of the latest meta analyses on ketogenic performance.
https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
The interesting quote is the 'growing popularity with endurance athletes'. Who knows they might be close enough soon to the figure we can refer to as many? Not sure anyone will ever defy the laws of physiology enough that we can start using the term 'exclusive'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29108901
All of the endurance athletes I've read about doing keto are not doing keto full time...they do keto for certain parts of their training protocol, just as they do some fasted training...they still carb load before races.
Exactly. From what I understand, having keto as part of their training protocol can extend the period of time before an endurance athlete "hits the wall".3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
It kind of is. But it's also recognizing that both sides make wild accusations. Both of which should concede some of their non valid points. The data on keto and sports shows significant variations in individual performance. So yes, while there are a few that can thrive on low carb or keto while playing some sports, it certainly isn't the major like those who carb load. Preferentially, athletes can benefit from training carb load and have periods of training with lower carbs. No different than one should lift and do cardio.
The data for LCHF really does show significant variations, it shows decreases in performance for high intensity athletes and an increase in performance for endurance athletes.
Do you have the studies? Were they on trained or untrained individuals? Did you compare individual performance or just the mean values? Or did you read it and take the interpretation at face value?
Here is one of the latest meta analyses on ketogenic performance.
https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
The interesting quote is the 'growing popularity with endurance athletes'. Who knows they might be close enough soon to the figure we can refer to as many? Not sure anyone will ever defy the laws of physiology enough that we can start using the term 'exclusive'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29108901
All of the endurance athletes I've read about doing keto are not doing keto full time...they do keto for certain parts of their training protocol, just as they do some fasted training...they still carb load before races.
Exactly. From what I understand, having keto as part of their training protocol can extend the period of time before an endurance athlete "hits the wall".
^ Emphasis on the important part of that phrase. 5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
It kind of is. But it's also recognizing that both sides make wild accusations. Both of which should concede some of their non valid points. The data on keto and sports shows significant variations in individual performance. So yes, while there are a few that can thrive on low carb or keto while playing some sports, it certainly isn't the major like those who carb load. Preferentially, athletes can benefit from training carb load and have periods of training with lower carbs. No different than one should lift and do cardio.
The data for LCHF really does show significant variations, it shows decreases in performance for high intensity athletes and an increase in performance for endurance athletes.
Do you have the studies? Were they on trained or untrained individuals? Did you compare individual performance or just the mean values? Or did you read it and take the interpretation at face value?
Here is one of the latest meta analyses on ketogenic performance.
https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
The interesting quote is the 'growing popularity with endurance athletes'. Who knows they might be close enough soon to the figure we can refer to as many? Not sure anyone will ever defy the laws of physiology enough that we can start using the term 'exclusive'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29108901
All of the endurance athletes I've read about doing keto are not doing keto full time...they do keto for certain parts of their training protocol, just as they do some fasted training...they still carb load before races.
Exactly. From what I understand, having keto as part of their training protocol can extend the period of time before an endurance athlete "hits the wall".
^ Emphasis on the important part of that phrase.
Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
10 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Here's my analogy:
You have a car that's engineered and built to run on premium gasoline.
There's a gas shortage, and the only thing available at the pumps is the cheap crap, so you switch to that instead.
Will your car run?
Of course it will.
Will it run at peak efficiency and performance?
Not a chance.
Do you have scientific evidence that the brain operates less optimally on a fuel mixture of glucose, ketones and lactate, or are you just stating opinion?
Not scientific evidence, but I note that the arguments posed by the keto-evangelists are distinctly lacking in rationale and objective evidence.
Commonplace where one allows agenda to drive the process.
The argument that the brain is NOT Exclusively fuelled by glucose has been supported by evidence.
no evidence has been given put forward that the brain is exclusively fuelled by glucose has been put forward or that the brain operates in a less than optimal capacity if it is not exclusively fuelled by glucose.
The statement that started this particular discussion about glucose being the only fuel the brain can use is false and misleading.
I believe it was thr preffered source of fuel from the brain was glucose over ketones, since ketones only are used as fuel when deprived of glucose.
Yep that’s my understanding of how the brain is fuelled also, that if glucose is readily available it is the preferred option.
I am also of the understanding that when glucose is restricted that the brain will function just as optimally on a mixture of ketones, glucose and lactate.
Also that even when glucose is in ample supply the brain will also draw upon lactate for fuel when the body is undertaking vigorous exercise.
All of the above is very different factually from the brain only being able to use glucose for fuel - wouldn’t you agree?
It is. Which is why nobody made that assertion in the first place.
“The brain is fueled exclusively by glucose.”
Page one. Maybe you just hadn’t scrolled back that far?
Selective quote is selective"Glucose is virtually the sole fuel for the human brain, except during prolonged starvation. The brain lacks fuel stores and hence requires a continuous supply of glucose. It consumes about 120 g daily, which corresponds to an energy input of about 420 kcal (1760 kJ), accounting for some 60% of the utilization of glucose by the whole body in the resting state...
...Fatty acids do not serve as fuel for the brain, because they are bound to albumin in plasma and so do not traverse the blood-brain barrier. In starvation, ketone bodies generated by the liver partly replace glucose as fuel for the brain."[/i]
You must have missed the part about alternate fuel sources in the absence of glucose.
Great so we are all in agreement then that statement that the brain exclusively uses glucose for fuel is false?
Because so far there’s been lots of deflecting from answering this question.
It's just as false as there being many low carb and keto athletes that thrive, while considering the population of athletes. That being, that might be one or two in a population of thousands of professional athletes.
Another great deflection. I hope your day job is in politics
It kind of is. But it's also recognizing that both sides make wild accusations. Both of which should concede some of their non valid points. The data on keto and sports shows significant variations in individual performance. So yes, while there are a few that can thrive on low carb or keto while playing some sports, it certainly isn't the major like those who carb load. Preferentially, athletes can benefit from training carb load and have periods of training with lower carbs. No different than one should lift and do cardio.
The data for LCHF really does show significant variations, it shows decreases in performance for high intensity athletes and an increase in performance for endurance athletes.
Do you have the studies? Were they on trained or untrained individuals? Did you compare individual performance or just the mean values? Or did you read it and take the interpretation at face value?
Here is one of the latest meta analyses on ketogenic performance.
https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
The interesting quote is the 'growing popularity with endurance athletes'. Who knows they might be close enough soon to the figure we can refer to as many? Not sure anyone will ever defy the laws of physiology enough that we can start using the term 'exclusive'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29108901
All of the endurance athletes I've read about doing keto are not doing keto full time...they do keto for certain parts of their training protocol, just as they do some fasted training...they still carb load before races.
Exactly. From what I understand, having keto as part of their training protocol can extend the period of time before an endurance athlete "hits the wall".
^ Emphasis on the important part of that phrase.
Correct. Too bad lemurcat is no longer around. She was really knowledgeable in this area!7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?16 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
11 -
stevencloser wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Any athlete participating in a high-intensity sport wouldn't seek ketosis in the first place if they've done enough research to understand how it impairs ATP replenishment. Fat adapted = carb impaired.
There is also some evidence indicating that LCHF is sub-optimal for endurance sports (study referenced in the infographic):
I think your graph is the study Nvmomketo referenced (3 week trial).
Yep. That's the one. Funnily enough, the info graphic says that adaptation to a ketogenic diet impaired racing performance. So it's the adaptation phase that hurt their performance.... Most who have switched to low carb would agree that racing while adapting to a new fuel source is a dumb choice. Eat keto at least 3 months and then race...
It's a shame they didn't test the athletes AFTER fat adaptation.
It seems to me like the time you claim adaptation takes is longer the longer the study times are that say people on keto diets have decreased performance.
Really? From what?
There is no exact adaptation time. I've seen as long as 6 months recommended, although 2-4 is more common. My guess is that the amount of time to adaptto a primary fuel of fat will vary between individuals, as will the effect on performance during that time.8 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.13 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP- which has also already been quoted back to you.
Well I know you guys are sticklers for people being accurate - or does that standard only apply in one direction?
Are we agreeing then that your comment at the being of this post (page one) was just a poorly phrased contradiction?
Clearly the brain is not exclusively fueled by glucose.
So any documented examples or was your comment anecdotal?
13 -
Really? From what?
There is no exact adaptation time. I've seen as long as 6 months recommended, although 2-4 is more common. My guess is that the amount of time to adaptto a primary fuel of fat will vary between individuals, as will the effect on performance during that time.
So in other words, since there's no quantifiable adaptation time, and adaptation and performance will vary between individuals, any study result of any time period not showing favorable results to a ketogenic diet simply means that they didn't give long enough for the athletes to be fat adapted - because we don't know how long that would really take. And as a backup, if they didn't perform as well, that's just due to individual variations.
Got it.13 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
14 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »...So any documented examples or was your comment anecdotal?
Shall we start with Chris Froome, who is often held up as a keto hero?: https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2017/07/04/world-class-cyclists-special-diets-chris-froome/...Reaching his ideal racing weight was just the first step. Another important change in nutrition came along as a part of the team Sky strategy. James Morton, the current head of nutrition for team Sky, summed up the basics:
“In our research at Liverpool John Moores University, we now know that deliberately restricting carbs around carefully chosen training sessions can actually enhance training adaptations. But then of course we must ensure higher carbohydrate intakes for key training sessions and hard stages in racing. I believe this concept of periodising daily carbohydrate intake is the most exciting part of sports nutrition in the last decade.”...
...During races like the Tour de France or hard training sessions, he will of course go back to a higher proportion of carbs in his diet to top off his glycogen reserves and perform at his best. It seems that this approach allows him to get the best out of both worlds, he keeps his race weight without starving himself, and he has all the energy he needs for putting out big efforts.6 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
Only certain people with certain unshakeable beliefs. And I'm okay with that.10 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
I don't think you read the study correctly! Where in the study does it mention the word exclusive in regards to glucose as its fuel source. I think you are imagining things.7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
Only certain people with certain unshakeable beliefs. And I'm okay with that.
And there are a fair few on here that's for sure.
7 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
Only certain people with certain unshakeable beliefs. And I'm okay with that.
And there are a fair few on here that's for sure.
At least we agree on something.6 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »...So any documented examples or was your comment anecdotal?
Shall we start with Chris Froome, who is often held up as a keto hero?: https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2017/07/04/world-class-cyclists-special-diets-chris-froome/...Reaching his ideal racing weight was just the first step. Another important change in nutrition came along as a part of the team Sky strategy. James Morton, the current head of nutrition for team Sky, summed up the basics:
“In our research at Liverpool John Moores University, we now know that deliberately restricting carbs around carefully chosen training sessions can actually enhance training adaptations. But then of course we must ensure higher carbohydrate intakes for key training sessions and hard stages in racing. I believe this concept of periodising daily carbohydrate intake is the most exciting part of sports nutrition in the last decade.”...
...During races like the Tour de France or hard training sessions, he will of course go back to a higher proportion of carbs in his diet to top off his glycogen reserves and perform at his best. It seems that this approach allows him to get the best out of both worlds, he keeps his race weight without starving himself, and he has all the energy he needs for putting out big efforts.
Where does this suggest he comes out of ketosis? Is there any data to go with this?
If anything this supports the use of a low carb life style for his sporting career.8 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
Only certain people with certain unshakeable beliefs. And I'm okay with that.
And there are a fair few on here that's for sure.
Oh the irony11 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »Is this anacdotal or do you have some documented examples?
I've gotten the impression from the keto proponents in this thread that anecdotes are all that are needed, and are more than enough proof. Does that standard only apply in one direction?
I’ve posted studies, so no that standard does not only apply in one direction.
So is there any documented examples or like your exclusive brain fuel comment, is it just anecdotal?
LOL. You still hung up on that?
It's already been addressed. Several times by several people. And read the quoted material in my OP - which has also already been quoted back to you. In case you didn't notice, that word was used in peer-reviewed research. Sorry it was so triggering for you, it wasn't my intent to traumatize anybody.
Not traumatized, just concerned for you, that you are coming across to people as misinformed.
Only certain people with certain unshakeable beliefs. And I'm okay with that.
And there are a fair few on here that's for sure.
At least we agree on something.
We certainly do!6 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »...So any documented examples or was your comment anecdotal?
Shall we start with Chris Froome, who is often held up as a keto hero?: https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2017/07/04/world-class-cyclists-special-diets-chris-froome/...Reaching his ideal racing weight was just the first step. Another important change in nutrition came along as a part of the team Sky strategy. James Morton, the current head of nutrition for team Sky, summed up the basics:
“In our research at Liverpool John Moores University, we now know that deliberately restricting carbs around carefully chosen training sessions can actually enhance training adaptations. But then of course we must ensure higher carbohydrate intakes for key training sessions and hard stages in racing. I believe this concept of periodising daily carbohydrate intake is the most exciting part of sports nutrition in the last decade.”...
...During races like the Tour de France or hard training sessions, he will of course go back to a higher proportion of carbs in his diet to top off his glycogen reserves and perform at his best. It seems that this approach allows him to get the best out of both worlds, he keeps his race weight without starving himself, and he has all the energy he needs for putting out big efforts.
Just as a side note - what fuel do you think Chris Fromes brain is using in those gruelling hill climbs when his muscles are fully carb loaded and glucose is readily available?
1) only glucose
2) glucose and lactate
Answers on a post card!9
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 913 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions