Cardio helps bring definiton?

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  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    edited June 2018
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    Silentpadna wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I believe your comparison is correct - during the exercise phase. However, the benefits of HIIT, as I understand from my own research is in the "afterburn" effect, where those who do HIIT properly - and that's a big if - supposedly reap those benefits for many hours after the fact. If you leave those calories (whatever they happen to be) out of the time window, you will underestimate what HIIT does compared with LISS.

    Why I don't believe HIIT works for most (and this is only my own speculation):

    1. Most people don't actually go to their limit (i.e. their "sprint" or whatever the intense portion is is not intense enough), so they don't actually get into the "afterburn" phase.
    2. Your point that I made bold above affects their normal activity level throughout the day after HIIT. For me, when I've tried HIIT, I have actually found the opposite to be true. I'm well energized afterward (after the initial 10-15 minutes of resting).

    I believe there is some evidence to suggest that HIIT, when done right, can work. But I also believe the benefits are marginal and can certainly be erased by lower activity levels after the fact. For non-elite athletes (like me - I'm hardly an "athlete"), the only potential benefit is the saving of 30-40 minutes of LISS that I might be doing instead. Whatever marginal benefit I would get is minor compared with the overall activity vs. intake. I happen to enjoy a good walk or jog. I don't enjoy the rowing sprints on the C2 that I've tried for HIIT as much - though it does get my competitive juices going.

    That "afterburn" you're talking about is called EPOC. It doesn't only happen when doing "proper" HIIT. It doesn't even happen exclusively when doing HIIT at all. It happens after every kind of physical exertion in varying amounts. And it's not that impressively much.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    From the German wikipedia article on EPOC (because it's a bit more extensive):
    -Average additional oxygen uptake during following 12 hours is 26 liters (average daily oxygen usage is 500-1000 liters)
    -it mostly evens out a lack of oxygen from the start of the exercise 500px-Excess_post-exercise_oxygen_consumption.svg.png
    -intensity of the exercise is less important for the amount of additional uptake than duration of the exercise
    -happens during both anaerobic and aerobic exercises, where anaerobic exercise creates a larger effect
    -if you're untrained the effect is larger than if you're already fit
  • Davidsdottir
    Davidsdottir Posts: 1,285 Member
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    collectingblues wrote: »
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I'm confused.

    What was her eating like before/after the injury?

    What was her training like before/after the exercise?

    Idrk that part its from utube but it seems harsh because she mentions that all she eats was spinach with chicken and training was probably the same except the cardio

    You can rack up a lot by eating "spinach with chicken", and cardio burns more than weight lifting does. And people lie on YouTube.

    She ate more than she burned. Period.

    Maybe you could, but what a sad life to eat that only LOL
  • bisonpitcher
    bisonpitcher Posts: 519 Member
    edited June 2018
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    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take. I also generally do late night workouts, 10pm-midnight time frame, so the after effects for me of either is negligible.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,906 Member
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    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    While I agree that cardio helps make creating a deficit easier and that LISS is an amazing calorie burner, there is also the possibility that "feeling fat" can be all in her head. Being injured and sluggish, having to deal with the water retention necessary for injury recovery, not being able to move properly...etc, can cause someone to feel fat. Just like you can feel fit sometimes and fat other times without an actual change in your shape or weight.

    I "feel fat" once a month...
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
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    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take. I also generally do late night workouts, 10pm-midnight time frame, so the after effects for me of either is negligible.

    Weight doesn't really matter when we're talking relative burn, but this is the estimate for your given weight and speeds:
    10 minute walk: 102
    Sprinting: 335
    Total: 437

    Steady state: 592
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
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    mph323 wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.

    people race using the galloway method. i see it more and more
    they run, their phone beeps, they walk...repeat

    Right, and when their phone beeps they stop dead in the running lane causing a major pile-up and much cursing. Not that I'm bitter or anything...

    i totally understand.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take.

    Lets run the actual numbers

    10 minutes at 11 @250=320
    10 minutes at 4.5 =106
    430

    30 minutes at 6 mph @250=580

    Note, that what actually pushes your HIIT burn up is that your "recovery" pace is pretty blazingly fast. And the LISS still beats the HIIT.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20843760/running-v-walking-how-many-calories-will-you-burn/
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take. I also generally do late night workouts, 10pm-midnight time frame, so the after effects for me of either is negligible.

    Weight doesn't really matter when we're talking relative burn, but this is the estimate for your given weight and speeds:
    10 minute walk: 102
    Sprinting: 335
    Total: 437

    Steady state: 592
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take.

    Lets run the actual numbers

    10 minutes at 11 @250=320
    10 minutes at 4.5 =106
    430

    30 minutes at 6 mph @250=580

    Note, that what actually pushes your HIIT burn up is that your "recovery" pace is pretty blazingly fast. And the LISS still beats the HIIT.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20843760/running-v-walking-how-many-calories-will-you-burn/

    You beat me to it.
  • bisonpitcher
    bisonpitcher Posts: 519 Member
    edited June 2018
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    stanmann571 wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take.

    Lets run the actual numbers

    10 minutes at 11 @250=320
    10 minutes at 4.5 =106
    430

    30 minutes at 6 mph @250=580

    Note, that what actually pushes your HIIT burn up is that your "recovery" pace is pretty blazingly fast. And the LISS still beats the HIIT.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20843760/running-v-walking-how-many-calories-will-you-burn/

    Interesting. I don't know if what I was doing was true HIIT, as I see that debated all the time, but I felt like throwing up (or did) after the end of every session. Either way, I'm sticking with my routine of Lifting 3 days a week with 2 days of HIIT and 1 day of LISS a week as its working for me. I just hit the 90 lbs. down mark with about 20 to go.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I was doing HIIT at a much higher weight, starting at around 250 lbs. Maybe that had something to do with it. Sprints at 11, walk at 4.5. My steady state cardio was around 9:15 mile pace for 30 minutes. Around 400 calories each for me give or take.

    Lets run the actual numbers

    10 minutes at 11 @250=320
    10 minutes at 4.5 =106
    430

    30 minutes at 6 mph @250=580

    Note, that what actually pushes your HIIT burn up is that your "recovery" pace is pretty blazingly fast. And the LISS still beats the HIIT.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20843760/running-v-walking-how-many-calories-will-you-burn/

    Interesting. I don't know if what I was doing was true HIIT, as I see that debated all the time, but I felt like throwing up (or did) after the end of every session.

    If you were doing 30/30 for 20 minutes, at those paces, it's close enough.

    The arguments generally come when someone says that they were doing tabata air squats/pushups and calls that burpees, or doing a 6 mph run/2 mph walk intervals for an hour. Or worse, a Shaun-T or Jillian michaels jazzersize with handweights program. And as one of the chronic hair splitters, I'm not going to pick at your intervals.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
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    I built muscle mainly lifting while losing wt for 7 months and while in maintenance for 11 months b4 switching to mainly cardio by rowing 10k meters daily which burns 540-600 cals daily doing 4x2500 meter intervals at a moderate pace which I guess you could call LISS which allows me to eat that much more while still maintaining my net daily maintenance calorie level which contributes to further weight/fat loss to the,extent that my net cals are below my maintenance level which has bern the case for the past 7 months.

    In the past 3 months, the weight trend (based on Libra) has dropped 1# from 155 to 154 and BF% has dropped from 8.3 to 7.7% (as measured by hydro) and my VAT level is virtually nil (based on DXA). Have lots of muscular dfn previously obtained from lifting and lots of vascular definition from fat loss without any significant loss of strength based on what little lifting that I am currently am still doing.

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