Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else?

missylectro

Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else?
Does anybody else get triggered when counting calories?
Did anybody else find that they lost the weight... but then weren't able to maintain it?
Does anybody else find that when they don't allow themselves certain foods, their subconscious takes over and they overeat or (worse) develop an eating disorder like binge eating?
Has anyone swung the weight loss pendulum in an extreme direction only for it to go to the opposite extreme?

How did you find balance?
I want to hear from you in this thread or add me as a friend.

Thanks!

seska422

Counting calories doesn't work as a way of eating for everyone. Luckily, there are many alternatives. The important thing for weight loss is to consume fewer calories than your body uses. It doesn't matter if you know how you got to that point, just that you do.

I count calories, log, and work any foods that I want into my calorie goal in moderation. I built a new way of eating by changing my old way of eating rather than trying to follow a specific plan. I've lost ~145 pounds on MFP and I've maintained for about 6 months now. That's the most success I've ever had.

Have you tried logging what you consume in a notebook without calorie counting? Doing so before you eat or drink gives you a chance to decide if you really want to consume something and, if so, how much. Each bite/sip is a decision.

try2again

To be fair, you are lumping several different issues together under a "calorie counting doesn't work" umbrella.

try2again

BTW, at least one of the issues you describe- restrict/binge cycles- is usually the result of pursuing too steep of a calorie deficit for your current stats and/or eliminating foods. For many of us, balance starts with reasonable goals & expectations and a diet that includes things we enjoy in moderation.

amusedmonkey

These all look like different issues that need to be worked on separately. If calories control makes them worse, it's entirely okay to pause calorie counting to work on them. After that you can decide if you wish to go back to calorie counting with these issues resolved or to seek an alternative way of creating a deficit.

What do you mean by "triggered"? Identify the exact issue and start thinking about why it happens and what you can do about it.

Why weren't you able to maintain weight? Were you too strict? Did you go full force guns blazing only to burn out in the end? Did you deprive yourself? Do you have unresolved psychological issues? Were you forcing yourself to make extreme or unrealistic changes? Were you trying to follow someone else's diet rules instead of discovering your own sustainable system? Any other reason that prevented neutral habit forming that didn't depend on the initial motivation?

Why are you not allowing certain foods? Counting calories doesn't mean forbidding yourself from eating things you love, it means looking for a comfortable balance. Do you feel some foods are "fattening"? Are you relying on the common practice of labeling foods as good and bad during diets? Do you feel you don't deserve these foods because you're fat? Do you have dieting baggage that makes you unconsciously believe that if you're dieting you need to be hungry and deprived? Are you afraid if you give yourself permission to eat you will go full ham and never stop overeating? Are you afraid of making peace with food?

What makes you think in extremes? Were your chosen calories too low? Are you suffering from the all or nothing mentality? Do you feel the need to "make up" for a day that had more calories than usual? Do you feel guilty when you eat more and proud when you eat less? Do you associate a day within calories with "good" and a day higher in calories with "bad"? Why are unnecessary self-imposed rules so appealing to you? Do you feel you're a bad person because you lack willpower, then you try to double down creating this vicious circle?

Just think about these things and try to understand why they're happening, and then try to come up with strategies that would help you resolve them. It won't happen overnight, and you may need to try a few different things for each issue, but these things really need to be resolved in order to lose weight successfully with as few hangups as possible and as little stress as possible.

If you feel you need extra help, don't hesitate to seek it. You don't need to feel like you have a full blown eating disorder before you seek help. These disordered thinking patterns are common in eating disorders and a professional may be able to offer you a new perspective even if you don't qualify for a diagnosis, and if you do quality, you'll thank yourself for catching it early.

Personally, I give myself permission to eat anything and everything, whenever I want, in whatever quantity I want while counting calories. My main strategies are to ask myself: do I really need to eat this or am I just rebelling against restriction? Will I be alright if I don't eat this or will I keep thinking about it? Is there a stress free way to introduce a food and still be within calories? Would an alternative be alright or do I really need this specific food? is this really worth it today or am I just being temperamental? I have lower calorie days and higher calorie days, they just balance out. Neither is good nor bad, it's just my hunger levels being variable and I don't consider a lower calorie day a victory, it's just what it is. I can go stretches of time eating to maintenance if I need to, but it's balanced out by the stretches of time I spend eating fewer calories than I need to mantain (even then I don't default to the lowest possible allowance). I don't have arbitrary rigid rules, just guidelines and strategies, and I don't need to lose every week or every month to consider myself a success. As long as I weigh this year what I weighed last year or less, I'm a success. Few people dieted and maintained a loss and I'm proud to be one of these people, even if I still need to lose more. In fact, many people who aren't dieting find themselves heavier every year as they slow down with age and weight creeps up.

kommodevaran

I used to have it like that, when I used another calorie counting site.
Not in the sense of eating disorder, but I was confused and stressed out by all the fearmongering and shoulds and shouldn'ts, rules and regulations, tips, advice and recommendations, and I tried to do it all, and could do really well for a while, and lose weight, but then I couldn't anymore, because I needed taste and mouthfeel and freedom and feeling that I'm making my own decisions; I was also quite resentful, and felt entitled, and helpless and apathetic and out of control, so I ate and ate and ate, and regained all I had lost, plus more.

But then I found MFP and learnt new things, or I found MFP at a point when I was ready for a major change.
I started to eat what I wanted, but in the right amounts.
I stopped demonizing foods, food groups and nutrients.
I started thinking critically about nutrition and health and weight too, and ask questions whenever things didn't sound logical.
I read a lot about how the brain, society, marketing, works.
I started observing what people really do.
I started paying attention to what people really say, and reflect on why they would say that.
I started trusting myself more.
I started to pay attention to how different foods and amounts really make me feel.
I started to find out what I really like, and what I can pass up.
I learnt that hunger and cravings are not the same thing.
I learnt that I can say no thanks.
I learnt that I can say yes, and eat and enjoy, without guilt or worry.
I learnt that meal planning works especially well for single person households.

TheMrWobbly

I have been down in weight and then found myself at my heaviest ever a year later. I have stuffed a whole 'large' pack of crisps in my face because I felt deprived and then hid the packet to pretend it hadn't happened

All of those things are true for most people, as a family there is always somebody trying to break the plan. We have a chinese take away at the weekend as one person 'had' to have it, one person wanted hot dogs at the cinema last night, one person brought in a party size Minion birthday cake as it was reduced.

Put simply either you want to do this or you don't. this is about a lifesytle change, it isn't just a 'calorie counting' exercise though calories are the simplest factor when working out how much energy you consume against how much you use.

If you weigh your food you will realise you are probably overeating on most portions. If you go back to larger portions you are not ready to make the lifestyle change that will bring the difference you are looking for. If you track your food properly you will change your shopping habits to avoid certain foods (bread, cereals, high sugar products), and if you find yourself still buying these things you are not ready for it.

Is this going to work for me now, yes, how do I know, I don't even go to the sweets, crisps and bread aisle whilst shopping and if I do go on my way for something else I don't have the urge to buy something. Key factor is the rest of the family are trying, others can easily drag you down, that is where MFP is so good.

try2again

TheMrWobbly wrote: »

I have been down in weight and then found myself at my heaviest ever a year later. I have stuffed a whole 'large' pack of crisps in my face because I felt deprived and then hid the packet to pretend it hadn't happened

All of those things are true for most people, as a family there is always somebody trying to break the plan. We have a chinese take away at the weekend as one person 'had' to have it, one person wanted hot dogs at the cinema last night, one person brought in a party size Minion birthday cake as it was reduced.

Put simply either you want to do this or you don't. this is about a lifesytle change, it isn't just a 'calorie counting' exercise though calories are the simplest factor when working out how much energy you consume against how much you use.

If you weigh your food you will realise you are probably overeating on most portions. If you go back to larger portions you are not ready to make the lifestyle change that will bring the difference you are looking for. If you track your food properly you will change your shopping habits to avoid certain foods (bread, cereals, high sugar products), and if you find yourself still buying these things you are not ready for it.

Is this going to work for me now, yes, how do I know, I don't even go to the sweets, crisps and bread aisle whilst shopping and if I do go on my way for something else I don't have the urge to buy something. Key factor is the rest of the family are trying, others can easily drag you down, that is where MFP is so good.

I'm glad this is working for you, but this is another case of demonizing certain foods (and by extension, your family for eating them) and encouraging others to do so. Many of us can and do incorporate Chinese takeout, a hot dog, and a piece of cake into our week. I buy bread and cereal, but am selective about when I have them so I don't use up the calories I need for things I find more satiating. I actually am better without certain sweets in the house, because I know I don't moderate them well, but that doesn't mean I never have them.

The beauty of using calorie counting to establish a deficit, rather than a bunch of arbitrary rules & diet philosophy, is that it completely caters to the individual. The only thing is, it does take time and a little trial and error to work out what works best for a person, but that's OK because this journey (weight loss AND weight maintenance) takes a lifetime and once a person finds their groove, they're in the best possible position to enjoy permanent success.

pinuplove

Lots of questions, OP! And not all directly related to the title.

Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else? Calorie restriction works for everyone based on physics. The methods by which that restriction is accomplished vary. It may or may not include counting calories.

Does anybody else get triggered when counting calories? I find I need a break now and then, for my mental health, but I don't find it triggering alone. More just tiresome after a while.

Did anybody else find that they lost the weight... but then weren't able to maintain it? When I went back to my old habits, yes.

Does anybody else find that when they don't allow themselves certain foods, their subconscious takes over and they overeat or (worse) develop an eating disorder like binge eating? It's not necessary or advisable to cut out huge swaths of food you enjoy. Better to manage portions and not feel deprived. The one thing I have basically cut out is caloric beverages. I don't like to drink my calories.

Has anyone swung the weight loss pendulum in an extreme direction only for it to go to the opposite extreme? Not particularly, but I'm not an extreme kind of person.

How did you find balance? Day by day. It's always a work in progress. Just try to be a little better next week, next month, next year than you are today.

collectingblues

try2again wrote: »

TheMrWobbly wrote: »

I have been down in weight and then found myself at my heaviest ever a year later. I have stuffed a whole 'large' pack of crisps in my face because I felt deprived and then hid the packet to pretend it hadn't happened

All of those things are true for most people, as a family there is always somebody trying to break the plan. We have a chinese take away at the weekend as one person 'had' to have it, one person wanted hot dogs at the cinema last night, one person brought in a party size Minion birthday cake as it was reduced.

Put simply either you want to do this or you don't. this is about a lifesytle change, it isn't just a 'calorie counting' exercise though calories are the simplest factor when working out how much energy you consume against how much you use.

If you weigh your food you will realise you are probably overeating on most portions. If you go back to larger portions you are not ready to make the lifestyle change that will bring the difference you are looking for. If you track your food properly you will change your shopping habits to avoid certain foods (bread, cereals, high sugar products), and if you find yourself still buying these things you are not ready for it.

Is this going to work for me now, yes, how do I know, I don't even go to the sweets, crisps and bread aisle whilst shopping and if I do go on my way for something else I don't have the urge to buy something. Key factor is the rest of the family are trying, others can easily drag you down, that is where MFP is so good.

I'm glad this is working for you, but this is another case of demonizing certain foods (and by extension, your family for eating them) and encouraging others to do so. Many of us can and do incorporate Chinese takeout, a hot dog, and a piece of cake into our week. I buy bread and cereal, but am selective about when I have them so I don't use up the calories I need for things I find more satiating. I actually am better without certain sweets in the house, because I know I don't moderate them well, but that doesn't mean I never have them.

The beauty of using calorie counting to establish a deficit, rather than a bunch of arbitrary rules & diet philosophy, is that it completely caters to the individual. The only thing is, it does take time and a little trial and error to work out what works best for a person, but that's OK because this journey (weight loss AND weight maintenance) takes a lifetime and once a person finds their groove, they're in the best possible position to enjoy permanent success.

This. There's nothing wrong with Chinese, a hot dog, or cake -- it's all about balance. Hot dogs are actually my "safe" food when I'm traveling, because a basic dog isn't that high in calories for a meal, and it's a decent protein source. And Chinese may be a sodium bomb, but once a month or so isn't bad when I don't feel like cooking. And cake... well cake is delicious.

I can't keep ice cream sandwiches in the house, because I will eat the entire box in two settings. (Oops.) And then I feel bad about myself -- but that doesn't mean I can't have them. I just need to buy them from a gas station or convenience store. That doesn't make them *bad*. It just means that I know they're a trigger food for me.

RadishEater

missylectro wrote: »

Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else?
Does anybody else get triggered when counting calories?
Did anybody else find that they lost the weight... but then weren't able to maintain it?
Does anybody else find that when they don't allow themselves certain foods, their subconscious takes over and they overeat or (worse) develop an eating disorder like binge eating?
Has anyone swung the weight loss pendulum in an extreme direction only for it to go to the opposite extreme?

How did you find balance?
I want to hear from you in this thread or add me as a friend.

Thanks!

I used to not allow certain foods, demonize food, would overeat, would get emotional as I over ate, feeling guiltier and guiltier...... but then I joined myfitnesspal and started counting calories and that's when i figured out how portion control works and how to lose food guilt and stop demonizing foods.

Last night I poured myself a measured glass of wine and had some chocolate for dessert, but I realized I wanted more chocolate and didn't care too much about having the glass of wine. So I poured the glass back in the bottle and went and got more chocolate.

Did I restrict myself because I didn't eat a lot of chocolate and have wine, yes but I didn't need both and ate what I most wanted. Counting the calories is helpful cause I see I can have this much chocolate for # ozs of wine. This is what balance is for me. Determining what I am craving more than something else and adjusting my logging for it.

However, when I discover a new food that triggers intense cravings their is a period of time it takes before I can get everything under control. For instance, I discovered a particular type almond butter that is like crack and the amount of almond butter I ate in the first week was a bit ridiculous. Now I let myself eat it on the weekends, which is definitely restricting me, but I'm not cutting it out which is balance for me.

Diatonic12

Mindful and Intuitive Eating works for those with eating disorders. They coach and encourage themselves to eat on a daily basis. That's part of their Rx for disordered eating. They're usually told to throw away the scales because the scales are a Big Kahuna trigger for fear of food and eating and weight gain.
Scales are only one data point but the scales can turn their life into an eating nightmare. Counting calories or tracking food may be another trigger for them.

But for those of us who struggle with obesity:

"People who struggle with obesity simply do not have the same ability as normal weight people to "listen to their hunger cues". First, the obesity has messed up their hormones. Many are resistant to insulin making them eat more AND leptin making them unable to stop eating when they are full. So, telling obese people to listen to their hunger signals is simply impossible."

This is why we track our food. Simply because it works for us.

There are all kinds of weight loss gurus out there and yes, many have written books. Some of it is a cover and justification to cover their own eating disorder. Secretly or openly. How did I finally get a grip. I threw all of their books into the bin.

I don't make rationalizations for my lack of ability to mindfully and intuitively eat all the things. I took full responsibility and accountability for myself. I learned to think for myself and I gave myself permission to do everything on my own terms. Real freedom and not imaginary freedom with more rigid eating, rules and regulations cooked up through the bias of brains that are really justifying and covering their own disordered eating.

Compartmentalized eating. A corresponding compartment with a rule and regulation to go along with every eating situation. Take only two bites and throw the rest in the trash, that type of thing which is mostly more disordered eating disguised as soundness and having all of the answers to everything. When someone has all of the answers for you, run like hail.

Pigeon-holing others by identifying you as a specific personality type that once again, has a corresponding compartmentalized way of eating. But you can't pound square pegs into round holes and make everything fit neat and nicely, pristine and perfect. Neat and tidy.

Extremes beget more extremes. Clean or Dirty Eating. All or Nothing. Naughty or Nice. Good or Bad. Fasting or Eating All The Things.


No one has all of the answers.

MFP is loaded to the gills with dieting veterans and pros that won't lead anyone down the wrong path. There's dieting and eating it all back. There's disordered eating that requires sitting down with someone face-to-face and asking for help. It takes wisdom to know the difference but there's safety in numbers.

tammie614

missylectro wrote: »

Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else?
Does anybody else get triggered when counting calories?
Did anybody else find that they lost the weight... but then weren't able to maintain it?
Does anybody else find that when they don't allow themselves certain foods, their subconscious takes over and they overeat or (worse) develop an eating disorder like binge eating?
Has anyone swung the weight loss pendulum in an extreme direction only for it to go to the opposite extreme?

How did you find balance?
I want to hear from you in this thread or add me as a friend.

Thanks!

it works for me.

i do not get triggered when counting calories (macros for me, but the same thing in a sense)

i am able to maintain it when i lose the weight (i've lost 145, I have 30 more lbs to go for Goal weight). I DO notice that when i restrict too much i have a tendency to binge. so I've learned to eat ENOUGH food/calories because eating too little/not enough is just as bad as eating too much

i also enjoy "treat"/cheat meals as well. it's all about balance 80/20 (or 70/30. flexible dieting at its finest) :-)


send me a message if you like or add me as a friend XO- Tammie

SeeksJoy25

missylectro wrote: »

Does calorie restriction/counting calories NOT work for anybody else?
Does anybody else get triggered when counting calories?
Did anybody else find that they lost the weight... but then weren't able to maintain it?
Does anybody else find that when they don't allow themselves certain foods, their subconscious takes over and they overeat or (worse) develop an eating disorder like binge eating?
Has anyone swung the weight loss pendulum in an extreme direction only for it to go to the opposite extreme?

How did you find balance?
I want to hear from you in this thread or add me as a friend.

Thanks!

SeeksJoy25

I, too, struggle with counting my food. Keeping a food diary seems to trigger hunger for me. If I do well on Monday, I want to go carb crazy by Tuesday. I know sugar is a big culprit and they say it takes 2 weeks of no sugar to begin to " kick the habit", but I have never made it past 4 days.

try2again

SeeksJoy25 wrote: »

I, too, struggle with counting my food. Keeping a food diary seems to trigger hunger for me. If I do well on Monday, I want to go carb crazy by Tuesday. I know sugar is a big culprit and they say it takes 2 weeks of no sugar to begin to " kick the habit", but I have never made it past 4 days.

Again, it sounds like you are blaming the practice of logging food/counting calories when it's your plan to cut carbs that seems to be creating a problem for you.

cmriverside

SeeksJoy25 wrote: »

I, too, struggle with counting my food. Keeping a food diary seems to trigger hunger for me. If I do well on Monday, I want to go carb crazy by Tuesday. I know sugar is a big culprit and they say it takes 2 weeks of no sugar to begin to " kick the habit", but I have never made it past 4 days.

Over-thinking is also a problem.

When I eat well-rounded balanced meals and snacks this stops happening. Making sugar the Devil isn't the answer, though. Sugar is definitely delicious and I can easily eat too much of it, but I'm not going to give it up for the rest of my life so I need to learn to manage it, right?

WinoGelato

SeeksJoy25 wrote: »

I, too, struggle with counting my food. Keeping a food diary seems to trigger hunger for me. If I do well on Monday, I want to go carb crazy by Tuesday. I know sugar is a big culprit and they say it takes 2 weeks of no sugar to begin to " kick the habit", but I have never made it past 4 days.

What does "do well" mean? What are you aspiring to - a certain calorie target? Cutting out certain foods?

What's your definition of "carb crazy"? Too many fruits and vegetables?

Sugar is a big culprit for what? Why do you need to kick the habit? Sugar is also in fruits and vegetables, how would cutting those out of your diet be beneficial?

MadisonMolly2017

I’m giving up sugar for the rest of my life.
It’s different for each person. I don’t want to fight/stress about the cravings it triggers for over 2-1/2 days. I don’t eat it because I prefer no cravings & false hunger signals than the temporary enjoyment of a dessert.

Fruits & vegetables don’t cause the insulin spikes of refined sugar. And have tremendous nutritional benefits.

amusedmonkey

MadisonMolly2017 wrote: »

I’m giving up sugar for the rest of my life.
It’s different for each person. I don’t want to fight/stress about the cravings it triggers for over 2-1/2 days. I don’t eat it because I prefer no cravings & false hunger signals than the temporary enjoyment of a dessert.

Fruits & vegetables don’t cause the insulin spikes of refined sugar. And have tremendous nutritional benefits.

Interesting. I was pre-diabetic and bananas were one of my blood sugar triggers while ice cream was fine.

mkculs

I see a lot of folks answered your specific questions. I'm going to answer more generally, based solely on my personal experience.

A lot of what concerns you--Cal. counting "not working," feeling deprived/going on a binge, etc.--are mistakes I made b/c I didn't know any better. For one thing, I probably RARELY at the NET minimum of 1200 cals, because I never ate back any of my exercise cals and tried to maintain a 2 lb/week loss. I avoided certain foods b/c I thought they might trigger overeating (when, in fact, avoiding them turns out to have been the cause of overeating).

Behind most of my mistakes was the sense of urgency I felt--I wanted to lose the weight as fast as possible. Now, meh, it will come off, and I'm not the least bit worried about the time frame. I'm expecting it to take about 2 years, b/c I do NOT want to fall back into old habits and I need the time to truly learn how to eat in a way that I can sustain for many years to come.

My question to myself at each decision point is, Can I sustain this? If the answer is no, I don't do it as part of my weight loss. For example, can I sustain exercising to earn more calories to eat? Nope; I'd resent it and find it too hard on my body, likely--bc I'd be overtraining. Can I limit chips to once every month/two months, whatever? Nope. I need to make them part of my weekly diet--I feel too deprived if I can't have them at least that often. Should I eat chicken a lot more? Nope; I'm not going to do that b/c I hate chicken and won't choose to eat it EVER if left to my own devices (I make it for my kids, though, and eat it then, sometimes).

The real goal of MFP is to help you find a way to create a calorie deficit that you can sustain for as long as you need to lose weight, and to learn the habits that will have you eating a relatively low amount for the rest of your life, too. Note I don't say, "having you eat a low amount." No; a healthy lifestyle means you will forever need to eat less than you eat now, but it also means you will be able to enjoy food and have fun and exercise and not feel like you are constantly struggling as we all struggle at the beginning of weight loss and occasionally at other times.

I would say that if you--or anyone--finds the transition to be a relentless struggle for months on end, something else is going on and needs to be addressed. It's not that hard to be a little bit hungry some of the time. It's not that hard to choose healthy options over less healthy ones, most of the time, while still enjoying ALL foods in moderation. It is VERY hard at first, but it should get easier with time.

I hope this helps; good luck.