Intermittent fasting - I don't get it
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BlessedMom70
Posts: 124 Member
Isn't it all about calories in/calories out? Why would it matter how long your body goes without eating, as long as you are eating at a deficit within that 24 hour period?
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Replies
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Yes, meal timing is only about preference. People just like to feel special.40
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It's all about the calories, the advantage is if your cutting at 1800 calories, well instead of splitting 1800 calories in 5-6 meals, you'll be splitting them in 1 to 3 meals which gives you bigger portions per meal.BlessedMom70 wrote: »Isn't it all about calories in/calories out? Why would it matter how long your body goes without eating, as long as you are eating at a deficit within that 24 hour period?
During the period that you can eat, you will feel fuller....in return, you also have a period where you don't eat at all (usually the format is 16 hours fasting, 8 hours fed state....but there are other variations of IF).
It's all about personal preference in the end. But no diet has a direct cause on losing weight. Only a caloric deficit has a direct cause.15 -
It is all about CICO. Some people find that intermittent fasting helps them stick to their calorie goals and be more satisfied, but it's not a requirement and other than the satiety/adherence aspect, does absolutely nothing to make weight loss faster or more efficient.
For example, I more or less adhere to 16:8 (16 hours fast, 8 hours eating). It works for me because I'm not that hungry in the morning, but I like having a lot of calories available for a big dinner, which is when I'm hungriest. I say I "more or less" adhere to it because I have coffee with creamer first thing in the morning (which 'technically' is breaking the fast), and if I'm hungry outside that 8-hour window, I'll eat. I consider it a general guideline, not a religion, and I don't believe there is any magic to it other than it fits my preferred eating schedule and makes it easier to stick to my calories.
It's quite trendy right now and there's a lot of woo out there about it - but in the end it all comes down to consuming less calories than you expend - by whatever means one chooses to do that. Weight loss comes down to how many calories you eat, not what time you eat them.14 -
It helps some people who find eating during a smaller "window" makes it easier to stick to their calorie goal.
There are some other theoretical "benefits" that some folks like to tout, but none of it's proven.12 -
The idea is that by eating one or two big meals you'll eat less than eating several smaller meals because the large meals will fill you up before you are eating at or above maintenance. Which is hilarious to me because I am more than capable of eating 1800+ calories in one sitting when I'm very hungry.14
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If you set up your fast so that your "eating period" ends at 7-8pm it is supposed to help acid reflux/heartburn/etc. because you're giving your food more time to digest before you sleep. But of course, that can be done without adhering to a fasting schedule. Really the main benefit is having 1-2 bigger meals rather than 3 smaller ones. It's not nearly as magical as people like to claim.5
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It all is CICO but when I was doing intermittent fasting I was doing so to try to combat my late night snacking. If I saved most of my calories for dinner by not eating until around 3pm and having a light lunch, I could go to bed feeling full and not wanting to snack. It helped me a lot in that way. I don't do it anymore because I like breakfast too much, but I do try to have a light breakfas/lunch so I can have a bigger dinner.5
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Some people just aren't hungry for breakfast, so they would rather not waste calories on it.
Some people like having bigger meals, so eating within a shorter window allows for fewer but bigger meals.
Some people like a shorter wait between meals so they don't get hungry without having to do 5-6 tiny meals a day.
Some people feel hungrier if they eat breakfast, so not eating it makes it easier for them to stay within their calorie allowance.
How long your body goes without eating doesn't matter much for dieting, but if going without eating for a little bit longer makes dieting easier then it matters for that particular individual.
Personally, I only do it when it suits the situation. I wait until I'm hungry to eat my first meal, and that can result in me eating within a 6-8 hour window sometimes but not always. I also deliberately skip a meal or two when I know I'm going out in order to eat what I want at the restaurant and not worry too much about calories. In both cases I'm technically intermittent fasting, but only because it makes dieting more pleasant.10 -
It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!68 -
cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
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psychod787 wrote: »cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
Oh man....does that mean I fell for a ruse and I don’t NEED to fast? Does that mean that working out on my empty stomach first thing in the morning isn’t really beneficial either?
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psychod787 wrote: »cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
Oh man....does that mean I fell for a ruse and I don’t NEED to fast? Does that mean that working out on my empty stomach first thing in the morning isn’t really beneficial either?
Two great articles from James Krieger (with plenty of scientific research linked to back up what he's saying) that answer the questions about both insulin and fasted cardio:
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
https://weightology.net/fasted-cardio-an-undeserved-good-reputation/
By the way - if anybody mentions Jason Fung or Gary Taubes as their sources about insulin (or weight loss), run the other direction as far and fast as you can. Both of them are woo-peddling crackpots whose theories have been scientifically shot out of the sky by actual evidence-based researchers. Basically, they're a laughingstock amongst researchers who actually understand anything about physiology.17 -
psychod787 wrote: »cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
Oh man....does that mean I fell for a ruse and I don’t NEED to fast? Does that mean that working out on my empty stomach first thing in the morning isn’t really beneficial either?
If you feel better working out fasted, then its all good. I personally can do my morning walks fasted or hike, but my higher intensity hypertrophy weight training will kill me. I have to eat about an hour before the gym. I do time restricted eating myself 14/10 on work days and 16/8 on non work days. There are some benefits for me, 1. I have to get up pretty early on work days and have long shifts, so that extra 30 mins of sleep are nice 2. My hunger hormones go crazy once I start my eating cycle. 3 I have no kids and I am single, I eat when I want 4. I like larger meals and eating later at night helps me sleep. Kinda 5. Strange effect, but not exactly a benefit, My senses are heightened when I am fasted. My sense of smell is sharper, eyes move quicker, and mind is super clear. I never expected that. I wonder if anyone else has the same experiences?4 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
Oh man....does that mean I fell for a ruse and I don’t NEED to fast? Does that mean that working out on my empty stomach first thing in the morning isn’t really beneficial either?
If you feel better working out fasted, then its all good. I personally can do my morning walks fasted or hike, but my higher intensity hypertrophy weight training will kill me. I have to eat about an hour before the gym. I do time restricted eating myself 14/10 on work days and 16/8 on non work days. There are some benefits for me, 1. I have to get up pretty early on work days and have long shifts, so that extra 30 mins of sleep are nice 2. My hunger hormones go crazy once I start my eating cycle. 3 I have no kids and I am single, I eat when I want 4. I like larger meals and eating later at night helps me sleep. Kinda 5. Strange effect, but not exactly a benefit, My senses are heightened when I am fasted. My sense of smell is sharper, eyes move quicker, and mind is super clear. I never expected that. I wonder if anyone else has the same experiences?
I feel more alert and attentive while fasting, but only have done it off and on so far. I also don’t mind doing my cardio or weight lifting on an empty stomach. (Plus I am super self conscious about throwing up at the gym).
The need to eat first might change once I change my workout to bulk instead of right now I am focusing on getting rid of my belly fat.
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daughteroftheoldones wrote: »If you set up your fast so that your "eating period" ends at 7-8pm it is supposed to help acid reflux/heartburn/etc. because you're giving your food more time to digest before you sleep. But of course, that can be done without adhering to a fasting schedule. Really the main benefit is having 1-2 bigger meals rather than 3 smaller ones. It's not nearly as magical as people like to claim.
not unless someone has issues with those things at those times in the evening.as for amount of meals it will depend on the person0 -
psychod787 wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
UHHHH????!?!? nope......
Insulin Spikes according to the size of the meal. Large meal, large longer spike, Short meal, shorter smaller spikes. Does insulin stop the burning of fat for energy? Yes, for as long as the body uses glucose and then stores it. So, your "Larger" meal just causes a larger/longer insulin release. Though, I did hear that IF was curing HIV and helping restore the OZONE layer.
Oh man....does that mean I fell for a ruse and I don’t NEED to fast? Does that mean that working out on my empty stomach first thing in the morning isn’t really beneficial either?
If you feel better working out fasted, then its all good. I personally can do my morning walks fasted or hike, but my higher intensity hypertrophy weight training will kill me. I have to eat about an hour before the gym. I do time restricted eating myself 14/10 on work days and 16/8 on non work days. There are some benefits for me, 1. I have to get up pretty early on work days and have long shifts, so that extra 30 mins of sleep are nice 2. My hunger hormones go crazy once I start my eating cycle. 3 I have no kids and I am single, I eat when I want 4. I like larger meals and eating later at night helps me sleep. Kinda 5. Strange effect, but not exactly a benefit, My senses are heightened when I am fasted. My sense of smell is sharper, eyes move quicker, and mind is super clear. I never expected that. I wonder if anyone else has the same experiences?
I feel more alert and attender I’ve while fasting, but only have done it off and on so far. I also don’t mind doing my cardio or weight lifting on an empty stomach. (Plus I am super self conscious about throwing up at the gym).
The need to eat first might change once I change my workout to bulk instead of right now I am focusing on getting rid of my belly fat.
There's nothing wrong with fasted cardio/weight training, if it fits your personal preference. Just understand that there's nothing magical about it as far as fat loss goes.
There's also some evidence to show that post-workout nutrition, especially protein intake, becomes more important (from a muscle protein synthesis standpoint) when doing strength training in a fasted state.1 -
Then I will go back to my favorite post workout breakfast of oatmeal mixed with my protein powder, peanut butter and Greek yogurt!10
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cloudsongs wrote: »It’s not just about calories in/calories out. Every single time you eat something, even if there are 0 carbs, your body produces a hormone called insulin. Once insulin begins circulating your body, all your fat-burning hormones like growth hormones begin to power down (and this is worse especially when you eat high carb meals) because they “think” they’re about to get easy energy from glucose pretty soon.
This is where intermittent fasting comes in. You technically are supposed to eat one or two meals during your “feeding window” which allows the least amount of insulin spikes in your body (because you’re only eating 2 times a day with 0 snacking) within a short period of time. The rest of the day, insulin will be low while other hormones begin to use the energy from both your diet and your stored energy.
So yes, calories are important because if you eat too much, your body will never tap into your reserved glycogen and fat. But intermittent fasting also helps speed up the process because of fewer insulin spikes!
This wreaks of Fung.
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Research is ongoing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28938796
If it works for you, why not?
Their seems to be no harm in an IF approach (as far as we know right now).
Let's just let (unbiased) research and good science pan out on the subject.3 -
happytree923 wrote: »I am more than capable of eating 1800+ calories in one sitting when I'm very hungry.
I don't even need to be "very" hungry to reach that mark. Four slices of pizza, a large soda and cinnamon-topped breadsticks can reach that mark easily. Heck, some of the drinks offered at Starbucks can surpass 2k calories with a single drink!
(Personal record for pizza was 15 slices, but that was when I was 18 and able to eat like that yet still weigh 40 pounds less than I do now...)4
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