Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
That Keto is so hot right now
Options
Replies
-
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
No, they are not evil at all. However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Insulin resistance is another thing that's incorrectly thrown around. Keto advocates are quick to talk about how insulin is the devil and insulin spikes cause fat storage/gain. But if you're insulin resistant, that means insulin shouldn't be having those effects upon you in the first place. You can't have it both ways. Theoretically, insulin resistance is the ideal situation for fat loss if one is a believer in the insulin theory of obesity. An excellent read on it here: https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-resistance-fat-loss.html/8 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Sure, but what percentage of the population have that medical issue? There will always be exceptions especially with all the people in this world.
To add, not all people with PCOS or insulin resistance find this percentage high. I have PCOS and I can tolerate carbs quite well.7 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Sure, but what percentage of the population have that medical issue? There will always be exceptions especially with all the people in this world.
I can't tell you about worldwide population, but according to the CDC, 8-10% of women in America have PCOS, 9.4% of the U.S. population (male and female) have diabetes, and 84.1 million people have prediabetes.4 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »
Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high.
"The typical American diet is about 50% carbohydrate, 15% protein, and 35% fat.[7] These macronutrient intakes fall within the Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Ranges (AMDR) for adults identified by the Food and Nutrition Board of the United States Institute of Medicine as "associated with reduced risk of chronic diseases while providing adequate intakes of essential nutrients," which are 45-65% carbohydrate, 10-35% protein, and 20-35% fat as a percentage of total energy.[8] However, the nutritional quality of the specific foods comprising those macronutrients is often poor..."
Whole grains have carbohydrates. That doesn't mean that "whole grains" and "carbohydrates" are equivalent terms.
50% carbohydrate isn't particularly high. The very text you posted notes that it is within the AMDR range. Note that some of diet patterns associated with the population groups who live the longest and healthiest lives (the "blue zones") often eat moderate or high carbohydrate diets.
It may help if you clarify what you're trying to say, because a diet rich in whole grains is generally considered to be associated with positive health outcomes. The SAD is marked by (among other things) a preference for *refined* grains and a relative lack of whole grains.
If the attempt is to critique the SAD, whole grains are not a primary source of carbohydrates for many Americans.
When looking at nutrition, there are (at least) two things to consider. One is the macronutrient intake. The other is what types of foods are making up those macronutrients. Knowing that someone is consuming 50% of their calories in carbohydrates doesn't tell us much about the overall healthfulness of their diet.
When people talk about the SAD, they're not just referring to macronutrient ranges, they're also talking about the specific foods providing those macronutrients. Those carbohydrates could be coming from broccoli, they could be coming from oats, they could be coming from cotton candy.
There are plenty of carbohydrate-rich diets that avoid the problems associated with the SAD -- a Okinawan-style diet, for example, would have plenty of carbohydrates from sweet potatoes and vegetables.
5 -
LouisTamsi wrote: »SAD doesn't exist, we are too diverse of a culture, each bringing our own norms to the table to even begin to define SAD. Now what we could do is instead rebrand it as DAD or the Dysfunctional American Diet, one that is heavy on greasy foods, fast food, junk food, soda, etc. These foods don't hold the nutrients we need as well as being silent calories. Up until a few weeks ago I bet few people knew how many calories were in a supersize big mac value meal. Now I'm not demonizing these foods in and of themselves, but if they're your only diet then problems are on the horizon.
What changed in the last few weeks?0 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Sure, but what percentage of the population have that medical issue? There will always be exceptions especially with all the people in this world.
I can't tell you about worldwide population, but according to the CDC, 8-10% of women in America have PCOS, 9.4% of the U.S. population (male and female) have diabetes, and 84.1 million people have prediabetes.
yet many of them may be misdiagnosed. my daughter was misdiagnose as being insulin resistant she is obese and has a thyroid issue. she had further testing done she is not IR. she has no diabetes and is not even pre diabetic,yet her first endo tried to say she was. she doesnt have pcos either. now my sons gf found out she has pcos and she is prediabetic but her IR tests show that its a normal level. her fasting glucose is high but her glucose after she eats is normal4 -
brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »brneydgrlie wrote: »Granted, Wikipedia is not Gospel, but the following is quoted from there. I may be mistaken about what I said regarding "whole grains", but SAD carbs are really quite high...
The default macro split on MFP is 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. Many people have had great success losing weight and hugely improving their health using that macro combination. For an even more extreme example, Google "Twinkie Diet". A professor lost considerable weight and showed vast improvement in his metabolic/health markers while eating a diet largely composed of what people commonly refer to as "junk food".
Carbs are not the evil bogeyman that keto advocates are making them out to be.
However 50% is quite high if you have PCOS or another medical issue related to insulin resistance.
Sure, but what percentage of the population have that medical issue? There will always be exceptions especially with all the people in this world.
I can't tell you about worldwide population, but according to the CDC, 8-10% of women in America have PCOS, 9.4% of the U.S. population (male and female) have diabetes, and 84.1 million people have prediabetes.
Still in a minority. 9 out of 10 people don't have issues. 9 out 10 people can lose weight with carbs without it affecting their health.3 -
I have noticed a lot of posts asking about keto, too. I don't know enough to help, so I scroll past. This post caught my eye because I was thinking the same thing, but it does not bother me.3
-
<-Does not even follow traditional "keto". Just likes to argue with self righteous Keto advocates & confuse him/her for not having any perspective or openness of ideas of accomplishing the same goals.9
-
Fed up with keto posts - then posts a keto post??
I’m hoping the keto bashing craze ends soon.
Meta analysis shows the diet to be equal to moderation / calorie counting.
Maybe accepting there is NO ‘one diet model’ which suits everyone might be the answer!31 -
The keto diet is peak annoying bacon culture imo. It will eventually fade just like gluten free, paleo, and What the Health vegans. I agree most people who do it don't understand it at all, I was in Starbucks the other day and a woman was buying a huge bag of coffee beans for her friend who "is going through keto flu! she's going keto!" which ????????? What does keto flu have to do with coffee??
I know plenty of people do it well-informed, nutritionally balanced and with realistic expectations. But the few people I know irl who are trying it started because eating lots of bunless bacon cheeseburgers is appealing to them and they have some vague notion that they won't need to consider calories because of insulin or whatever.
I truly don't understand why people find these types of diets less restrictive than calorie counting.6 -
1. Most people find fat (and protein) satiating.
2. Carb cravings are reduced
3. If improves conditions related to insulin resistance like T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's, CVD; as well as some neurological problems.
4. Steadier energy from steadier BG
5. Improved lipid panels for most.
6. Possible gastrointestinal improvements or for other symptoms like migraines
7. Better skin and hair
8. It has been shown to be just as effective as any weight loss diet, and slightly better in those with IR.
9. Sustainability is just as good, if not better, than some other diets like low fat
10. It is quite complimentary to popular IF due to appetite suppression
11. Bacon
You are correct about this statement. Keto is actually a credible and sustainable way of eating. It does, in fact, facilitate with improved health. If you take a blood panel and compare before Keto and after you will notice improved results. I know personally because I have experienced it. Keto has improved my life and health. With Keto I also do intermittent fasting (IF). Using IF and Keto together facilities faster weight loss and a healthier body. In fact, when I have gone off Keto and IF my health deteriorated.30 -
happytree923 wrote: »The keto diet is peak annoying bacon culture imo. It will eventually fade just like gluten free, paleo, and What the Health vegans. I agree most people who do it don't understand it at all, I was in Starbucks the other day and a woman was buying a huge bag of coffee beans for her friend who "is going through keto flu! she's going keto!" which ????????? What does keto flu have to do with coffee??
I know plenty of people do it well-informed, nutritionally balanced and with realistic expectations. But the few people I know irl who are trying it started because eating lots of bunless bacon cheeseburgers is appealing to them and they have some vague notion that they won't need to consider calories because of insulin or whatever.
I truly don't understand why people find these types of diets less restrictive than calorie counting.
It's usually those who experience the reduced cravings and hunger, or really good health benefits who find it less restrictive than calorie counting. It does not feel like you have to hold yourself back from eating as long as you eat certain foods, or you feel so much better that the carby foods are not worth eating.
YMMV9 -
When keto first started to get popular a few years ago we had people running around insisting nursing homes and caretakers for the elderly needed to put all of their patients on a keto diet immediately. The pie in the sky claims aren't new, they're just more frequent. Before keto, the boards were swimming in nonsense about starvation mode, raspberry ketones, insanity, primal, hiit, military diet, and dozens of other things. As keto dies off, something else will take its place and then we'll all be moaning about that. The cycle never ends.12
-
brneydgrlie wrote: »The keto diet is really not a new thing. It was started back in the 1920s by the medical community as a treatment for epilepsy. Later, Dr. Atkins used the principles of it to form the first stage of his Atkins diet, which he came out with in the 1970s.
People have searched for the "perfect" diet nearly as long as obesity has existed. The problem is, there is not one perfect diet, because we are all different. Sure, CICO is sound in general, but there are other factors to consider. What kinds of calories you consume are also important. If you consume something that does not work for your body, you will not benefit. For example, recent studies have shown that people of Mediterranean descent are highly likely to be lactose intolerant, whereas people of Nordic descent are not.
Also, not everyone can tolerate the standard American diet, with its emphasis on whole grains. One example of this would be women with PCOS. PCOS sufferers are insulin resistant, and therefore, eating low-carb is beneficial in managing their health and improving symptoms. Whole grains in SAD amounts only make their symptoms worse.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with following a specific diet, as long as you have done the research, and it works for you. What is sustainable for one person is not necessarily so for another. There is no one size fits all answer to weight loss. CICO is great, and necessary for weight loss, but the tweaking of it and how you get to that point is totally up to you.
Also, just in the spirit of transparency, yes, I do keto. It has worked very well for me. Do I proselytize and try to convert others to it? No, absolutely not. However, if people do ask me about it, I offer information and let them know my research sources.
Keto or low carb is actually the first diet book ever written. It was by Banting back in the 1800's. I believe it was called a Letter on Corpulence. It called for eliminating baking, sugar and starchy roots, although it did allow some ale and other spirits, and a bit of toast I think.
ETA Banting's booklet: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.1550-8528.1993.tb00605.x5 -
aburrison1 wrote: »1. Most people find fat (and protein) satiating.
2. Carb cravings are reduced
3. If improves conditions related to insulin resistance like T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's, CVD; as well as some neurological problems.
4. Steadier energy from steadier BG
5. Improved lipid panels for most.
6. Possible gastrointestinal improvements or for other symptoms like migraines
7. Better skin and hair
8. It has been shown to be just as effective as any weight loss diet, and slightly better in those with IR.
9. Sustainability is just as good, if not better, than some other diets like low fat
10. It is quite complimentary to popular IF due to appetite suppression
11. Bacon
You are correct about this statement. Keto is actually a credible and sustainable way of eating. It does, in fact, facilitate with improved health. If you take a blood panel and compare before Keto and after you will notice improved results. I know personally because I have experienced it. Keto has improved my life and health. With Keto I also do intermittent fasting (IF). Using IF and Keto together facilities faster weight loss and a healthier body. In fact, when I have gone off Keto and IF my health deteriorated.
Not everyone finds lots of fat satiating and wish people would stop repeating this like it's nearly universal. I legitimately thought there was something wrong with me when I tried Whole 30 because low carb made me feel this weird combination of both stuffed and weak from hunger, I definitely wasn't satisfied. I need one reasonable portion of complex carbs in a meal and I am happy, full, and energetic for much longer.16 -
happytree923 wrote: »aburrison1 wrote: »1. Most people find fat (and protein) satiating.
2. Carb cravings are reduced
3. If improves conditions related to insulin resistance like T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's, CVD; as well as some neurological problems.
4. Steadier energy from steadier BG
5. Improved lipid panels for most.
6. Possible gastrointestinal improvements or for other symptoms like migraines
7. Better skin and hair
8. It has been shown to be just as effective as any weight loss diet, and slightly better in those with IR.
9. Sustainability is just as good, if not better, than some other diets like low fat
10. It is quite complimentary to popular IF due to appetite suppression
11. Bacon
You are correct about this statement. Keto is actually a credible and sustainable way of eating. It does, in fact, facilitate with improved health. If you take a blood panel and compare before Keto and after you will notice improved results. I know personally because I have experienced it. Keto has improved my life and health. With Keto I also do intermittent fasting (IF). Using IF and Keto together facilities faster weight loss and a healthier body. In fact, when I have gone off Keto and IF my health deteriorated.
Not everyone finds lots of fat satiating and wish people would stop repeating this like it's nearly universal. I legitimately thought there was something wrong with me when I tried Whole 30 because low carb made me feel this weird combination of both stuffed and weak from hunger, I definitely wasn't satisfied. I need one reasonable portion of complex carbs in a meal and I am happy, full, and energetic for much longer.
The list was actually posted by me, but the last bit (where I said that it differs for everyone -YMMV) was (accidentally?) removed when I was quoted. It was not written as a universal statement.
As an aside, it's possible that the weakness or fatigue you felt was from the electrolyte imbalance that accompanies lowering carbs. Most who lower carbs need about 2 tsp of salt a day.14 -
Fung's is a snake oil salesman? Like Ornish,Pritikin, Atkins,Dukkan and every other doctor who wrote a book about the diets they are successfully using to treat their patients?
Here is a staunch low-carb/keto advocate with diabetes who writes in detail why Fung is a scammy snake oil salesman of the highest order:
https://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2015/04/20/fung-us-among-us/
https://www.diabetes-warrior.net/2015/04/24/what-the-fung/
[ETA:] Also, if anybody is interested in what the evidence-based nutrition community thinks of Fung, here's what happened when he joined the International Society of Sports Nutrition's Facebook page to pimp his podcasts with Taubes, Ludwig, Noakes, etc. (warning for NSFW language): https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheISSN/permalink/10154830542402791/14 -
Why does it affect you, OP?
6 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »Fed up with keto posts - then posts a keto post??
I’m hoping the keto bashing craze ends soon.
Meta analysis shows the diet to be equal to moderation / calorie counting.
Maybe accepting there is NO ‘one diet model’ which suits everyone might be the answer!
Who is it that doesn't accept that? I think most do. The resentment for keto advocates is they generally seem not to accept that.6
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions