Can proper diet fix hormonal issues?

CSARdiver

shaumom wrote: »

reeeggiii wrote: »

...
Is this really a thing? I know some people who have hypothyroidism and since they avoid or include certain foods in their diet they don't have to take their medicine anymore, but could this work for everyone with the same issue? Could diet fix other hormonal imbalances as well? I don't have any issues, I'm just curious about this topic and your opinion on this.

Soooo, I'm just gonna share my opinion based on my own experience, for what it's worth.

1. Medical research into thyroid issues, ESPECIALLY in women, has a long way to go before we have it under wraps. As a great example, doctors aren't even in agreement over what test results are 'normal,' (https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-testing-what-is-a-normal-tsh-level-3232902), and a lot of doctors are not very educated about what tests give the most accurate picture of thyroid health. We just have a lot of unknowns about thyroid health, thyroid tests, thyroid meds, etc... So 'only do what your doctor says' only goes so far, considering they have a lot of gaps in their knowledge.

2. There is a very important distinction between 'there is no research to support X treatment for thyroid problems' and 'there is research disproving X treatment for thyroid problems.' Most of the time, dietary treatments are in the 'no research' category as opposed to the 'disproved' category. And they are likely to stay there for a LONG time, because most medical research right now gets funding from companies that get benefit from the results. Treatment through dietary changes have little to no monetary value for companies to research, so there is very little valid research on it. That does not in any way mean a dietary treatment is valid, of course, but the idea of dietary changes impacting the body doesn't necessarily deserve the scorn a lot of people heap on the very idea, either.


The above 2 things mean that thyroid issues, like MANY other conditions, are in a really crappy category; they still have a lot of research that needs to be done before we know all about how the condition reacts to the various drugs, tests, treatments, etc... And some possibilities that might help the condition but involve dietary changes are unlikely to enter mainstream medicine due to a lack of research, likely now and in the near future.

Which means that anyone who has a condition NOW is kinda screwed, because we have to live with the condition, whether there is accurate research and treatment or not. And so many people with these various conditions ABSOLUTELY try alternative treatments, that have not had funded research yet, when the 'traditional,' aka 'may work but may not and we still don't know why,' treatments have failed.

And frankly, anyone who has not been in that position really doesn't have a leg to stand on in criticizing what people do when they ARE in that situation. Because while people may do stupid things, it is NOT stupid to be aware that you are really ill, that your treatment is not working, that your doctor WILL NOT suggest other treatment or insists that you're 'just fine.' It is not stupid nor ignorant to decide that living with the pain/problems you have is not tenable, and that if you are not getting help from the medical community you need to help yourself, instead. It is not stupid to listen to dozens, if not hundreds, of other people in your situation who have tried various 'alternative' treatment, to see if they might have something that has yet to be researched but that might help.

I have had celiac disease for a long time and I've seen people trying treatment plans for this disorder that weren't medically recommended. I've seen these same people mocked and derided for not sticking to 'accepted' treatment. And then I've seen the research finally happened that completely validated their treatment plans, because they had figured out what worked for them, EVEN IF the research hadn't been done yet.

So when talking about dietary changes and hormone regulation - honestly, who knows? Could impact it, might not. Like I said earlier, there really hasn't been much in the way of research. Personally, I figure it would make a difference for some people, and not for others, just like any other treatment can, you know? We are SO individual, and there is a lot we still don't know about the body.

Like myself - I was undiagnosed as a celiac for a long time. My thyroid numbers were high and getting higher. I was going to be put on meds if they kept going just a teeny bit more. And then I got diagnosed as celiac, went gluten free, and my TSH numbers dropped down to better levels within a year - so for me, diet change had a HUGE impact on my thyroid levels.

At the same time, my celiac dad has hypothyroidism AND celiac disease, and while being gluten free helps, he still needs to take medication.

Then, just for examples of dietary changes and what can happen, there is an acquaintance of mine with rheumatoid arthritis. So bad he couldn't move without pain, was in a wheelchair all day long. He had heard some other RA folks talk about dietary changes helping so he tried it. Huge difference - and it was weird foods, like chocolate was bad, wine was bad, and as I recall, so were carrots, of all things. And within a year or two, he was so improved he ran in a local marathon.

Diet is not necessarily going to impact everyone, IMHO. I've seen people who got nothing out of it. But for those it DOES help, it can have a HUGE effect. Personally, with all I've seen improve in my own life, and in people I know, when they made a significant diet change, I would honestly recommend people at least consider trying an elimination diet to see if it does help.

Because let's be honest: what's it gonna hurt, as long as you make sure you are still getting good nutrition? A little stress at new foods, a little more work with avoiding some foods, and that's all it takes for a possible improvement in one's life or certain conditions. And if it does nothing...the work just helped you be a bit more compassionate and understanding for people who DO have limited diets due to medical conditions, so it's not terrible.

I understand the appeal to this and fell victim to it initially when I thought living with hypothyroidism was hopeless.

You posted a link to an article by Mary Shomon - who is largely responsible for much of the misinformation/disinformation out there that leads patients away from medicine. She has a business degree, no medical training, but she wrote a book, writes several articles, and makes a good living pitching woo. There's a good deal of profit in woo ~64B USD/annual.

What is "normal" TSH? 0.2-2.0 mU/L

The difference in "consensus" of what normal is is minuscule - ranging from 0.2-2.0 to 0.5-5.0. Largely depending on which endocrinology board you reference.

There is no such thing as funding for dietary changes as there is no regulatory pathway for dietary changes. What would you test? Where's your design of experiment? The concept is nebulous for any experiment to prove or disprove anything. You would have to have complete control over your test subjects - easy with mice - rather challenging imprisoning humans. It's easier to fool the public to believe that profit is evil...while you make a tidy profit.

It's not stupid to change your diet as a compliment to medical direction.

It is the definition of stupid to discard medical direction and attempt to fix a medical problem through diet.

Diet may minimize symptoms. It may also mask symptoms. Diet may also minimize root causes such as overweight/obesity and minimize many issues, but it does not cure diseases.

hippiesaur

CSARdiver wrote: »

shaumom wrote: »

reeeggiii wrote: »

...
Is this really a thing? I know some people who have hypothyroidism and since they avoid or include certain foods in their diet they don't have to take their medicine anymore, but could this work for everyone with the same issue? Could diet fix other hormonal imbalances as well? I don't have any issues, I'm just curious about this topic and your opinion on this.

Soooo, I'm just gonna share my opinion based on my own experience, for what it's worth.

1. Medical research into thyroid issues, ESPECIALLY in women, has a long way to go before we have it under wraps. As a great example, doctors aren't even in agreement over what test results are 'normal,' (https://www.verywellhealth.com/thyroid-testing-what-is-a-normal-tsh-level-3232902), and a lot of doctors are not very educated about what tests give the most accurate picture of thyroid health. We just have a lot of unknowns about thyroid health, thyroid tests, thyroid meds, etc... So 'only do what your doctor says' only goes so far, considering they have a lot of gaps in their knowledge.

2. There is a very important distinction between 'there is no research to support X treatment for thyroid problems' and 'there is research disproving X treatment for thyroid problems.' Most of the time, dietary treatments are in the 'no research' category as opposed to the 'disproved' category. And they are likely to stay there for a LONG time, because most medical research right now gets funding from companies that get benefit from the results. Treatment through dietary changes have little to no monetary value for companies to research, so there is very little valid research on it. That does not in any way mean a dietary treatment is valid, of course, but the idea of dietary changes impacting the body doesn't necessarily deserve the scorn a lot of people heap on the very idea, either.


The above 2 things mean that thyroid issues, like MANY other conditions, are in a really crappy category; they still have a lot of research that needs to be done before we know all about how the condition reacts to the various drugs, tests, treatments, etc... And some possibilities that might help the condition but involve dietary changes are unlikely to enter mainstream medicine due to a lack of research, likely now and in the near future.

Which means that anyone who has a condition NOW is kinda screwed, because we have to live with the condition, whether there is accurate research and treatment or not. And so many people with these various conditions ABSOLUTELY try alternative treatments, that have not had funded research yet, when the 'traditional,' aka 'may work but may not and we still don't know why,' treatments have failed.

And frankly, anyone who has not been in that position really doesn't have a leg to stand on in criticizing what people do when they ARE in that situation. Because while people may do stupid things, it is NOT stupid to be aware that you are really ill, that your treatment is not working, that your doctor WILL NOT suggest other treatment or insists that you're 'just fine.' It is not stupid nor ignorant to decide that living with the pain/problems you have is not tenable, and that if you are not getting help from the medical community you need to help yourself, instead. It is not stupid to listen to dozens, if not hundreds, of other people in your situation who have tried various 'alternative' treatment, to see if they might have something that has yet to be researched but that might help.

I have had celiac disease for a long time and I've seen people trying treatment plans for this disorder that weren't medically recommended. I've seen these same people mocked and derided for not sticking to 'accepted' treatment. And then I've seen the research finally happened that completely validated their treatment plans, because they had figured out what worked for them, EVEN IF the research hadn't been done yet.

So when talking about dietary changes and hormone regulation - honestly, who knows? Could impact it, might not. Like I said earlier, there really hasn't been much in the way of research. Personally, I figure it would make a difference for some people, and not for others, just like any other treatment can, you know? We are SO individual, and there is a lot we still don't know about the body.

Like myself - I was undiagnosed as a celiac for a long time. My thyroid numbers were high and getting higher. I was going to be put on meds if they kept going just a teeny bit more. And then I got diagnosed as celiac, went gluten free, and my TSH numbers dropped down to better levels within a year - so for me, diet change had a HUGE impact on my thyroid levels.

At the same time, my celiac dad has hypothyroidism AND celiac disease, and while being gluten free helps, he still needs to take medication.

Then, just for examples of dietary changes and what can happen, there is an acquaintance of mine with rheumatoid arthritis. So bad he couldn't move without pain, was in a wheelchair all day long. He had heard some other RA folks talk about dietary changes helping so he tried it. Huge difference - and it was weird foods, like chocolate was bad, wine was bad, and as I recall, so were carrots, of all things. And within a year or two, he was so improved he ran in a local marathon.

Diet is not necessarily going to impact everyone, IMHO. I've seen people who got nothing out of it. But for those it DOES help, it can have a HUGE effect. Personally, with all I've seen improve in my own life, and in people I know, when they made a significant diet change, I would honestly recommend people at least consider trying an elimination diet to see if it does help.

Because let's be honest: what's it gonna hurt, as long as you make sure you are still getting good nutrition? A little stress at new foods, a little more work with avoiding some foods, and that's all it takes for a possible improvement in one's life or certain conditions. And if it does nothing...the work just helped you be a bit more compassionate and understanding for people who DO have limited diets due to medical conditions, so it's not terrible.

I understand the appeal to this and fell victim to it initially when I thought living with hypothyroidism was hopeless.

You posted a link to an article by Mary Shomon - who is largely responsible for much of the misinformation/disinformation out there that leads patients away from medicine. She has a business degree, no medical training, but she wrote a book, writes several articles, and makes a good living pitching woo. There's a good deal of profit in woo ~64B USD/annual.

What is "normal" TSH? 0.2-2.0 mU/L

The difference in "consensus" of what normal is is minuscule - ranging from 0.2-2.0 to 0.5-5.0. Largely depending on which endocrinology board you reference.

There is no such thing as funding for dietary changes as there is no regulatory pathway for dietary changes. What would you test? Where's your design of experiment? The concept is nebulous for any experiment to prove or disprove anything. You would have to have complete control over your test subjects - easy with mice - rather challenging imprisoning humans. It's easier to fool the public to believe that profit is evil...while you make a tidy profit.

It's not stupid to change your diet as a compliment to medical direction.

It is the definition of stupid to discard medical direction and attempt to fix a medical problem through diet.

Diet may minimize symptoms. It may also mask symptoms. Diet may also minimize root causes such as overweight/obesity and minimize many issues, but it does not cure diseases.

Thank your for this reply! I'm a biologist so I know that experiment design should consider too many factors... Studies that include observing human response to any treatment usually have such a small sample size (+ usually there is not enough variability either), that their results are probably not statistically significant and you really can't check all the time that people do exactly what they should do. So I think even if there are studies out there dealing with diets they are not very reliable (they could be if they repeated them many times in other countries with other people)...

LittleLionHeart1

I know most people question their thyroid function but please question https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cushing-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20351310

AnnPT77

shaumom wrote: »

@kimny72 I have absolutely seen what you describe, where someone reads one article, and then basically stops there as though that one article is equivalent to a lot of research, knowledge, etc... And then they often make some sweeping changes that are not well thought out, and may not even really apply to their situation, which they wouldn't know as they never bothered to delve more deeply into the topic.

The folks I know who have seemed to have the most benefit simply used those articles as an 'aha' moment, a starting point for doing their own research and exploring the topic, to see if it might be relevant to their own situation, and if so, how, and what is actually going on, etc..

Although while I'd agree that it IS possible to sometime find doctors who will take into consideration a patient's lifestyle, diet, etc... when looking at prescriptions and treatment, in reality? That's more rare than one would think, sadly. And the more rare a condition is, the more limited is the doctor pool to treat it, and then it becomes even less likely to find a doctor that can work with their patient to explore what may be possible. IF the person even has the money to pay for this, or insurance that will agree to the tests in the first place.

Admittedly, in the interest of honesty here, the entire concept of diet and whether it can help a person is pretty personal for me. I had a disorder that took decades to get diagnosed (not the celiac disease). It's a rare one, and it involves just one type of cell in my body that is really screwed up, but results in my having crazy reactions to all sorts of things, including many, many foods.

Over the years, I figured out how to change my diet in ways that helped, long before I got diagnosed, and I got unbelievable amounts of crud from both doctors and people around me, you know? Because not only was it not 'treatment' a doctor recommended, but the doctors didn't even think I HAD anything to be treated for in the first place. And I was getting worse and worse, but there was just...no help from anyone, at all.

When I WAS finally diagnosed, it was like the light at the end of the tunnel, where the specialist could finally explain WHY all these foods made me so ill, and confirmed that they were absolutely the problem that I thought they were. And since being diagnosed, I have been in contact with so many others who have similar stories. The medical system here in the USA is REALLY broken for a large number of people here.

So while I actually do think it's a good idea to see a doctor first, I personally don't see it helping at least half the time, if not more, for people who are very far outside the range of 'typical problems that happen to everybody' like colds and flus and arthritis.

Basic hypothyroidism is pretty common, maybe not as much as the common cold, but on the order of 4-10% of the population in the US, perhaps a little under half as many who have arthritis, looking at published statistics.

Some have unusual cases, or complications because of other conditions.

For most of us - like me - treatment is pretty straightforward. In this group, patient compliance is probably a more common problem with treatment, rather than incompentent medical professionals.

I don't mean to discount the experiences of people like you, who have more complex individual scenarios. But I also don't want people with basic conditions to feel hopeless about their potential for a decent outcome.

My PCP looked at T3/T4/etc. intially, observed that I responded well to standard treatment (levothyroxine, in my case) and that TSH tracked my subjectively perceived outcomes well. Things have been going well since (18 years).

This will be true for many . . . but not everyone.