Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Carnivore Diet, Depression, and Autoimmune Disease -- Jordan Peterson
hgycta
Posts: 3,013 Member
in Debate Club
So my brother showed me an interview with Jordan Peterson on Youtube titled "Jordan Peterson's Carnivore Diet Cured His Depression?" (URL: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLF29w6YqXs), and it was really interesting. I was wondering if anyone here has seen this video and/or tried this diet? What are your thoughts on this?
I'm thinking of giving it a try. I've never been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, but I have Raynaud's, depression, and some other issues I'm hoping it might clear up. I know it probably can't be good in the long-term since it's low fiber and excluding many important vitamins/minerals, but I might see what happens on a 30 day plan unless I read about any horrifying experiences with it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLF29w6YqXs), and it was really interesting. I was wondering if anyone here has seen this video and/or tried this diet? What are your thoughts on this?I'm thinking of giving it a try. I've never been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, but I have Raynaud's, depression, and some other issues I'm hoping it might clear up. I know it probably can't be good in the long-term since it's low fiber and excluding many important vitamins/minerals, but I might see what happens on a 30 day plan unless I read about any horrifying experiences with it...
12
Replies
-
I haven't really looked into it, but I think that if you consume organ meats as part of this diet, there is a more complete (not saying totally complete) nutritional profile.0
-
Lack of carbs can aggravate/trigger depression in some people.
18 -
You'd should probably consult physician first before embarking on such a plan, since they're most familiar with your individual conditions and whether or not they're linked to any nutritional factors. All you're going on is his self-proclaimed claim of a cure, and I don't think there's any good studies that would back him up.
Also, given his rather controversial status in other areas, I'd consider him a less-than-ideal source for dietary and health advice.26 -
You'd should probably consult physician first before embarking on such a plan, since they're most familiar with your individual conditions and whether or not they're linked to any nutritional factors. All you're going on is his self-proclaimed claim of a cure, and I don't think there's any good studies that would back him up.
Also, given his rather controversial status in other areas, I'd consider him a less-than-ideal source for dietary and health advice.
I was trying to figure out how to diplomatically say what you did in the last paragraph. Thank you for injecting that into the conversation.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You'd should probably consult physician first before embarking on such a plan, since they're most familiar with your individual conditions and whether or not they're linked to any nutritional factors. All you're going on is his self-proclaimed claim of a cure, and I don't think there's any good studies that would back him up.
Also, given his rather controversial status in other areas, I'd consider him a less-than-ideal source for dietary and health advice.
I was trying to figure out how to diplomatically say what you did in the last paragraph. Thank you for injecting that into the conversation.
I know he doesn’t have the best reputation due to his opinions in other areas, but I’m just focusing on this possible correlation. He’s not necessarily suggesting we all follow the same carnivore diet he did, he’s just explaining his personal journey through it and what he’s seen and heard from his daughter who started it first. He’s also sharing that other people came up to him claiming it’s positively benefited their lives, too.
I’ve always been one to encourage everything in moderation, but who’s to say that’s really the “best” way of eating, anyways? I looked up the link between vitamin c and carbohydrate metabolism he referred to, and it seems legitimate. People did evolve from hunting and gathering, so maybe a carnivore diet isn’t all that bad?
I just really want to find out if anyone here has tried it more than anything. I’d love to hear testimonials. The good, the bad, and everything in between!6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You'd should probably consult physician first before embarking on such a plan, since they're most familiar with your individual conditions and whether or not they're linked to any nutritional factors. All you're going on is his self-proclaimed claim of a cure, and I don't think there's any good studies that would back him up.
Also, given his rather controversial status in other areas, I'd consider him a less-than-ideal source for dietary and health advice.
I was trying to figure out how to diplomatically say what you did in the last paragraph. Thank you for injecting that into the conversation.
I know he doesn’t have the best reputation due to his opinions in other areas, but I’m just focusing on this possible correlation. He’s not necessarily suggesting we all follow the same carnivore diet he did, he’s just explaining his personal journey through it and what he’s seen and heard from his daughter who started it first. He’s also sharing that other people came up to him claiming it’s positively benefited their lives, too.
I’ve always been one to encourage everything in moderation, but who’s to say that’s really the “best” way of eating, anyways? I looked up the link between vitamin c and carbohydrate metabolism he referred to, and it seems legitimate. People did evolve from hunting and gathering, so maybe a carnivore diet isn’t all that bad?
I just really want to find out if anyone here has tried it more than anything. I’d love to hear testimonials. The good, the bad, and everything in between!
The thing with the bolded is that it's all anecdotal. People frequently make the same claims going vegan, paleo, or any other trendy food fads. Most of that can be ascribed to placebo effect or just losing some weight, but they ascribe the magic to whatever plan it was they signed onto.
19 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You'd should probably consult physician first before embarking on such a plan, since they're most familiar with your individual conditions and whether or not they're linked to any nutritional factors. All you're going on is his self-proclaimed claim of a cure, and I don't think there's any good studies that would back him up.
Also, given his rather controversial status in other areas, I'd consider him a less-than-ideal source for dietary and health advice.
I was trying to figure out how to diplomatically say what you did in the last paragraph. Thank you for injecting that into the conversation.
Well, no, the fact that he doesn't have a 4-year degree and a one-year residency as a registered dietician makes him a less-than-ideal source for nutrition advice.
That being said, I have an autoimmune disease that responds extremely well to a low fat, low meat, high complex carb diet.
n=112 -
People did evolve from hunting and gathering, so maybe a carnivore diet isn’t all that bad?
Don't forget the "gathering" part of that - which was a very strong part of how humans evolve. Put a man, a fruit bearing tree and an animal in a room - the man is most likely going to eat the fruit. For a start, how is he going to kill the animal? We are not carnivore's like a lion - for example. Put that in a room with the tree and the animal. It will kill. There is a difference.
20 -
Humans and most human ancestors have evolved as omnivores - Anthropology 101.
Eating plant AND animal matter gave us a competitive edge in terms of survival opportunities back then.19 -
If one looks to the Keto diet, seen as the cure all for many it was established for the purpose of reducing seizures in epileptic children particularly, some years ago. it took on its modern relevance when the general public realised the weight loss benefits of eating that way.
Some years ago I found an e-book, food can make you ill, the author's Sharla Race. In the book she covers so many issues which can occur in the human body when they react to foods differently to the majority. It mentions oxalates, sulphates and may more food reactions.
I have a friend who has eaten meat only for 2 may be 3 years. She does take vitamins and other supplements. She has experienced a great improvement in her health, general well being and energy levels. She was plagued by many food sensitivities eating this way she is relieved of those.
It may be advisable to talk to your doctor before you make any great changes to your diet but because they have little knowledge of nutrition it is doubtful they will be of much help their role only being applying medicinal plasters to cover symptoms but not remove the cause of some serious illnesses.
Good luck, try reading functional doctors.17 -
I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
14 -
I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
Given that the vast majority of people, at least in North America, regularly consume animals, I think the issue is more with the perception of monotony (not that people who are eating in this way perceive it to be monotonous, but from the outside it certainly will look that way to many who are currently eating a varied diet). Mikheila Peterson's plan, as I understand it, is just beef, salt, and water.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
Given that the vast majority of people, at least in North America, regularly consume animals, I think the issue is more with the perception of monotony (not that people who are eating in this way perceive it to be monotonous, but from the outside it certainly will look that way to many who are currently eating a varied diet). Mikheila Peterson's plan, as I understand it, is just beef, salt, and water.
It really is monotonous, IMO anyways. That's my problem with it. I'm not a huge meat lover so eating carnivore makes food functional. It is no longer for entertainment. When carnivores start out they tend to eat more of a variety of meats to deal with the monotony but most seem to settle into large mammal (cow) for convenience and best health.
But those who say it is unhealthy and bad for the environment are not having problems with its monotony. It's those people who tend to speak out the loudest and most frequently, IMO.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
Given that the vast majority of people, at least in North America, regularly consume animals, I think the issue is more with the perception of monotony (not that people who are eating in this way perceive it to be monotonous, but from the outside it certainly will look that way to many who are currently eating a varied diet). Mikheila Peterson's plan, as I understand it, is just beef, salt, and water.
It really is monotonous, IMO anyways. That's my problem with it. I'm not a huge meat lover so eating carnivore makes food functional. It is no longer for entertainment. When carnivores start out they tend to eat more of a variety of meats to deal with the monotony but most seem to settle into large mammal (cow) for convenience and best health.
But those who say it is unhealthy and bad for the environment are not having problems with its monotony. It's those people who tend to speak out the loudest and most frequently, IMO.
I understand what you're saying. I think there are people who are very against it for environmental and health reasons. I would agree that these people are probably the loudest. But my personal feeling (which I can't back up with data) is that most people aren't necessarily *against* carnivorism, they're just not interested in adopting it themselves.
I don't think they have concerns with using animals for food or the environmental impact of animal agriculture. These are widely accepted practices in North American society. The health thing is more on the nose, I think. It is probably hard for most people to believe that a diet devoid of fruit, vegetables, or anything but beef could meet all our nutritional needs. But I think this is secondary to the thought of giving up all other foods.
In some ways, from how I see the conversation it's kind of like veganism. You'll frequently run into people who claim that veganism is unhealthy because you need meat, eggs, or dairy to meet your nutritional needs. When these people are presented with evidence from multiple studies of vegan health and nutrition showing good outcomes, they don't change their mind and go vegan. Health was never the true justification, it was just the curtain. "I don't want to" is the true justification.
I imagine myself having the same approach if I, prior to going vegan, was approached about how a carnivore diet could benefit me. I'd probably begin with my perceptions that I need fruit and vegetables. Would that be my true objection? No. My true objection would be that I like things like olives and parsley and strawberries. I wouldn't want to eat just beef.
In our society I think it's often valorized to lead with health objections. But when it comes to radical changes of diet, "I don't want to" is usually our bedrock. That's why it isn't surprising to me to observe that many people in the carnivore/zero-carb community are people who are using the diet in an attempt to manage chronic health conditions.
(Not trying to be presumptive about anyone's way of life, so if I've gotten anything wrong, please let me know. These are my observations, so obviously heavily anecdotal).12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
Given that the vast majority of people, at least in North America, regularly consume animals, I think the issue is more with the perception of monotony (not that people who are eating in this way perceive it to be monotonous, but from the outside it certainly will look that way to many who are currently eating a varied diet). Mikheila Peterson's plan, as I understand it, is just beef, salt, and water.
It really is monotonous, IMO anyways. That's my problem with it. I'm not a huge meat lover so eating carnivore makes food functional. It is no longer for entertainment. When carnivores start out they tend to eat more of a variety of meats to deal with the monotony but most seem to settle into large mammal (cow) for convenience and best health.
But those who say it is unhealthy and bad for the environment are not having problems with its monotony. It's those people who tend to speak out the loudest and most frequently, IMO.
I understand what you're saying. I think there are people who are very against it for environmental and health reasons. I would agree that these people are probably the loudest. But my personal feeling (which I can't back up with data) is that most people aren't necessarily *against* carnivorism, they're just not interested in adopting it themselves.
I don't think they have concerns with using animals for food or the environmental impact of animal agriculture. These are widely accepted practices in North American society. The health thing is more on the nose, I think. It is probably hard for most people to believe that a diet devoid of fruit, vegetables, or anything but beef could meet all our nutritional needs. But I think this is secondary to the thought of giving up all other foods.
In some ways, from how I see the conversation it's kind of like veganism. You'll frequently run into people who claim that veganism is unhealthy because you need meat, eggs, or dairy to meet your nutritional needs. When these people are presented with evidence from multiple studies of vegan health and nutrition showing good outcomes, they don't change their mind and go vegan. Health was never the true justification, it was just the curtain. "I don't want to" is the true justification.
I imagine myself having the same approach if I, prior to going vegan, was approached about how a carnivore diet could benefit me. I'd probably begin with my perceptions that I need fruit and vegetables. Would that be my true objection? No. My true objection would be that I like things like olives and parsley and strawberries. I wouldn't want to eat just beef.
In our society I think it's often valorized to lead with health objections. But when it comes to radical changes of diet, "I don't want to" is usually our bedrock. That's why it isn't surprising to me to observe that many people in the carnivore/zero-carb community are people who are using the diet in an attempt to manage chronic health conditions.
(Not trying to be presumptive about anyone's way of life, so if I've gotten anything wrong, please let me know. These are my observations, so obviously heavily anecdotal).
I think you are right that most are not interested in carnivore diets. Those who try it are often at the end of their rope. There are some who LOVE meats and it suits them, as well as some who do it to be different, but I think mostpeople who do end up there because that's what seems to work for them. I honestly do hope that carnivore does not become popular for everyone, a fast shift to lots of meat could make food distribution and equal access tricky.
i agree with your comparison to veganism. Most don't want to do it so they don't. Makes sense, and rightly so. If you don't need to go extreme (due to beliefs or health) why bother. And carnivore and veganism are definitely extreme, with keto and vegetarianism being near those extreme edges. To eat the extremes successfully, or even towards the extreme edges of the WOE spectrum, one needs a good reason, IMO. Those who try it as a quick fix or fad will probably fizzle out quickly.
... TbhI think most carnivores are less strict than ethical vegans. Many carnivores still have coffee and tea, or even some evoo or coconut oil, and wear cotton. I doubt vegans eat bone broth or wear leather. jk
7 -
As a person who has struggled with depression, I don't really find this idea credible.18
-
NorthCascades wrote: »As a person who has struggled with depression, I don't really find this idea credible.
I don't see where an acute (30 day) diet is going to cure a chronic problem. It seems kind of like slapping a band-aid on a growing tumor and calling it good.16 -
People like to attribute magical powers to things they've done that really suck, to alleviate the feeling of being scammed.
#drinkingapplecidervinegar
#detox
etc etc13 -
NorthCascades wrote: »As a person who has struggled with depression, I don't really find this idea credible.
I don't see where an acute (30 day) diet is going to cure a chronic problem. It seems kind of like slapping a band-aid on a growing tumor and calling it good.
Last summer, half my state was on fire. My favorite place to hike - 150,000 acres burned. The air wasn't safe to breathe for a month. A little mountain town I love was threatened and evacuated. A nearby mountain with a lake I swim in went up, ash rained down in Seattle. While all this was going on, a junkie broke into my car and stole my road bike.
It was a struggle and bacon would not have helped. When the rain and snow came, and put the fires out, I started feeling less depressed. Getting a new bike helped too. But no fad diet.14 -
I dabble in carnivore but have not taken those final steps to truly be one.
I started keto a few years ago to help deal with IR and hopefully reduce my AI symptoms and arthritis. It worked pretty well, and I lost my weight doing it. After being in maintenance for a while I slowly started increasing carbs to the point where I was probably in and out of ketosis every few days. Unfortunately I regained some weight and my arthritis started coming back. I wasn't feeling my best.
I started back into strict keto but was not having the great improvements again so I switched to mostly carnivore in May. Basically meat, full fat dairy, and eggs, but I did have the occasional nuts every week or two, and some stevia and coconut cream. I felt quite a bit better. TBH, I have one inch long tufts of new hair growing all over my head from when I started carnivore (I tend to have hair loss when my AI issues are acting up) so I know I became healthier and it was not just a placebo.
From late July to now, I have been a lazy/dirty carnivore who cheats and every time I do, my joints act up. Over the last two days we've had two full day family functions, and over those two days I chose to eat a half cup of homemade potato salad, a GF blueberry tart that a cousin made special for me, and a slice of chocolate cake. The pain started late yesterday. My hip is aching and kept me up some of the night despite rotating pain killers, I've been icing my swollen knee on and off for the last half day, my fingers are stiff and sore and I even had pimples breakout on my chin. I KNOW I am healthier when I eat just meat but it's hard to get there and stay there.
Carnivore is just not well researched or socially acceptable yet. The only long term research was done on Steffanson back in the 20s. He lived with the Inuit for about 10 years and no one would believe he could stay healthy eating only meat so he and a partner stayed in a hospital fir a year and ate only large game to prove they would have no deficiencies. They were fine.
Eating organ meat is very nutrient rich but it does not appear to be needed, although I imagine it would be healthful. As long as one eats fatty meat (avoids rabbit starvation) people are generally quite healthy on a carnivore diet. Fresh meat has been known as a cure for scurvy for centuries.
I don't think everyone should be a carnivore, nor do I think everyone will benefit, but it hopefully will become more acceptable soon so people know it is a possible option to improving health. IMO many people have problems with it because of ethics. They dont want to think about eating cute animals or worry that they leave too large of an environmental footprint. They'd rather eat plants, and not kill animals (or just animals like chickens or fish), or they worry that saturated fat is still bad for heart health. I'm happy with that as long as they don't give me a hard time about the foods that improve my health or try to stop me.
They can eat the plants; there's more meat for me then.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I did want to point out that hair and nails are formed from protein (specifically, excess protein assists with keratinization). Any diet with more protein than your body uses for other functions will assist with hair and nail growth. It isn't really a sign that the diet is "healthier;" it's just a sign the diet has a lot of protein.16 -
If the problem is caused, or partially caused, by a person's current diet then it makes sense that altering the diet may help.
In situations where a problem is acute and caused externally (like depression from bad situations rather than a chronic problem, or a joint injury from an accident rather than inflammatory arthritis) then I think many will agree that diet will not play as large of a role during treatment or recovery.
For example, I've had a lot of arthritis, in multiple joints for over half my life (since my 20s). When I went gluten free to treat celiac disease I had a huge improvement in my upper body arthritis. Sometimes diet can help when diet is partially the problem. It is not usually a quick fix though. I've seen intensive diet therapy work but it can take months or years, and if the patient goes back to the way they ate when the problem developed, the problem will often return.
If you stub your toe, twist your ankle, or become depressed after losing a job or a bad breakup, I don't think diet will help as much, although it can still have some impact.
Ymmv2 -
As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
15 -
As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
I think at least some of his guidance on this is coming from his daughter, who isn't a medical/nutritional professional. She charges $120 an hour for video chat guidance on how to become a carnivore.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
I think at least some of his guidance on this is coming from his daughter, who isn't a medical/nutritional professional. She charges $120 an hour for video chat guidance on how to become a carnivore.
It only takes two seconds to say "Eat meat". Even if you say it slowly.
20 -
janejellyroll wrote: »As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
I think at least some of his guidance on this is coming from his daughter, who isn't a medical/nutritional professional. She charges $120 an hour for video chat guidance on how to become a carnivore.
It only takes two seconds to say "Eat meat". Even if you say it slowly.
Yeah, I'll admit that I have no idea what specific content is being offered during these consultations, but I can't imagine what on earth she could be providing that is worth that much money.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
I think at least some of his guidance on this is coming from his daughter, who isn't a medical/nutritional professional. She charges $120 an hour for video chat guidance on how to become a carnivore.
It only takes two seconds to say "Eat meat". Even if you say it slowly.
Think you just priced her out of the market. You should start up on Patreon
6 -
I haven't seen the video, but had discovered the carnivore diet as a way to further reduce carbs from the keto diet. It seems to work very well for me and I feel better than I have in a long time. I eat mostly beef, but add some other animal foods on occasion - usually when traveling or with meetings in a restaurant where options are more limited. I do not feel as good on those occasions when eating those other animal foods such as low carb dairy (cheese) and eggs. Something that really screwed me up badly once when traveling was pork rinds. I had not expected it to be so bad, but the label showed them as being very low carb. The only explanation I can think of is that they may have been fried in safflower oil.
ETA: The carnivore diet helped towards the tail end of losing fat, but I've continued as I've switched to maintenance for now. At some point, I want to lose a bit more body fat (those last 15 lbs.), but am staying at maintenance calories as I increase running mileage.2 -
While I think Peterson makes some interesting points, and have some interesting thought experiments on other topics, this isn't his area of expertise and is by definition an anecdotal story.6
-
As Dr. Peterson states repeatedly - he is largely ignorant of the science behind this (he is a clinical psychologist), but it works for him and his family. He is one of the greatest thinkers on the planet, but also has a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support.
I would not recommend attempting this without professional support.
Is he one of the greatest thinkers on the planet? How do you quantify (or qualify) that claim? Also while he may have a large base of professionals to help him whenever he has a question or needs support, whose to say that he's actually going to ask them for help in situations outside of collaborating on papers? It is fairly common knowledge that there are plenty of doctors and mental health care professionals who don't want to ask their colleagues for help. Nevermind the stigma surrounding mental health is in academia (and he is in academia) regardless of discipline. I would be pleasantly shocked if he talked to his colleagues about how to improve his mental health issues.7 -
Has anyone come across the web site - eat meat/drink water. been around for ages, very interesting.4
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions