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Intermittent Fasting/Clean Fasting Debate
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Posts: 1,919 MFP Staff
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This discussion was created from replies split from: Intermittent fasting.
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Replies
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What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...9
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What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.54 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
Gotcha, thanks. I've read about the hormone aspects of IF, but never heard it labeled as clean fasting.0 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
Coffee, tea, and lemon all have flavor. Tea has calories. What exactly are you healing after 3 weeks that has not been healing before then?27 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
No one should take the bolded at face value, as I believe it's chronic high blood sugar, not insulin spikes, that hinders healing in diabetics, but that's neither here no there. Everyone can research that for themselves if they're interested.
OP, I went for a long time "accidentally" doing IF because I simply wasn't hungry in the morning so I didn't eat until lunch time. Recently I started waking up hungry, so I've gone back to eating breakfast. It's really about what makes it the easiest for you to hit your calorie goal! There are lots of people here who do IF, some because that's just the way they've always eaten, and some who discovered it was a possible way to get control over their hunger cues.
Good luck :drinker:22 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
Coffee, tea, and lemon all have flavor. Tea has calories. What exactly are you healing after 3 weeks that has not been healing before then?
The bitterness doesn't raise your insulin. Lemon, still dependent on each individual person. Do research on it. I'm really not good at explaining things. I can read them. Remember them. But getting them out in a way that makes sense is hard for me.
https://draxe.com/benefits-of-autophagy/33 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »
So what, the scientific studies I've looked at are wrong?
If it came from Dr. Axe, yes. He's a well-known quack.20 -
I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).25 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
This is complete nonsense.
Actually it's science.
That word you're using... I don't think it means what you think it means.
So what, the scientific studies I've looked at are wrong?
If it came from Dr. Axe, yes. He's a well-known quack.
I have no idea who that is... never heard of him.
I was with you on this one, but the fact that you don't know that the link you posted above is from Dr. Axe's website has me scratching my head.
I have no idea who that is, i was just looking for a definition to share quickly. It's what popped up. Sue me.
How about people with actual experience with it? Or are they all quacks to?
http://www.ginstephens.com/all-blog-posts/does-a-clean-fast-really-matter
That's a blog entry from a school teacher, not "science".15 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
This is complete nonsense.
Actually it's science.
That word you're using... I don't think it means what you think it means.
So what, the scientific studies I've looked at are wrong?
If it came from Dr. Axe, yes. He's a well-known quack.
I have no idea who that is... never heard of him.
I was with you on this one, but the fact that you don't know that the link you posted above is from Dr. Axe's website has me scratching my head.
I have no idea who that is, i was just looking for a definition to share quickly. It's what popped up. Sue me.
How about people with actual experience with it? Or are they all quacks to?
http://www.ginstephens.com/all-blog-posts/does-a-clean-fast-really-matter
That's a blog entry from a school teacher, not "science".
I didn't say that was science. I said that was people with actual experience.12 -
I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
A rest from eating? People who don't do IF also take a break from eating. I don't do IF and I promise you, the majority of my time is spent *not* eating.22 -
I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
Honestly, I think it has to do with what people have been told to think. And a laziness at finding the truth. If someone where actually curious...like me.. they'd Google it themselves.
My doctor, who is the first one to say not to do something, said it was good. I would trust my doctor over someone on a message board lol28 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
This is complete nonsense.
Actually it's science.
That word you're using... I don't think it means what you think it means.
So what, the scientific studies I've looked at are wrong?
If it came from Dr. Axe, yes. He's a well-known quack.
I have no idea who that is... never heard of him.
I was with you on this one, but the fact that you don't know that the link you posted above is from Dr. Axe's website has me scratching my head.
I have no idea who that is, i was just looking for a definition to share quickly. It's what popped up. Sue me.
How about people with actual experience with it? Or are they all quacks to?
http://www.ginstephens.com/all-blog-posts/does-a-clean-fast-really-matter
That's a blog entry from a school teacher, not "science".
I didn't say that was science. I said that was people with actual experience.
The problem is, I could start a blog right now and say that eating exactly 75g of Cheetos every day cleared up my acne and made me grow 3 inches. And my blog would come up in "Google research". Since this doesn't make sense based on what we already know, you shouldn't go around telling people it's true until there are more complete scientific studies proving so
26 -
I don't see anybody saying that. What's being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense, which is an entirely different thing, with no basis in fact.I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
It makes about as much sense as holding your breath for 16 hours a day to give your body a rest from breathing.Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
Eating is a natural function and the human body is perfectly equipped to handle it. Whether you eat or not, your digestive system (along with your endocrine system, circulatory system, respiratory system, etc.) is working 24 hours a day.
17 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
A rest from eating? People who don't do IF also take a break from eating. I don't do IF and I promise you, the majority of my time is spent *not* eating.
It was pretty easy to eat from the time when I woke up right thru until bedtime, thus, weight gain.
9 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
This is complete nonsense.
Actually it's science.
That word you're using... I don't think it means what you think it means.
So what, the scientific studies I've looked at are wrong?
If it came from Dr. Axe, yes. He's a well-known quack.
I have no idea who that is... never heard of him.
I was with you on this one, but the fact that you don't know that the link you posted above is from Dr. Axe's website has me scratching my head.
I have no idea who that is, i was just looking for a definition to share quickly. It's what popped up. Sue me.
How about people with actual experience with it? Or are they all quacks to?
http://www.ginstephens.com/all-blog-posts/does-a-clean-fast-really-matter
That's a blog entry from a school teacher, not "science".
I didn't say that was science. I said that was people with actual experience.
The problem is, I could start a blog right now and say that eating exactly 75g of Cheetos every day cleared up my acne and made me grow 3 inches. Since this doesn't make sense based on what we already know, you shouldn't go around telling people it's true until there are more complete scientific studies proving so
There are. It's not my job to send them to people. If they really wanted to know, they'd go find it. I'm a 25 year old with serious mental limitations. Lol I don't mind sharing what I know. I do mind going threw google time after time looking for things for people who just want to be rude.28 -
I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
How exactly are your giving your body a rest? It's constantly doing something. If are a referring to digestion, all you are doing is taking small windows of digestion to very large windows of digestion. This doesn't even include the fact that your body only needs a rest from digestion when you have pancreatic issues (i.e., pancreatitis) or have gone through a surgery (i.e., diverticulitis) but even than they want you to eat soon as possible because it helps rebuild your system.
I did 16:8 and 14:10 for 3 months and all it did was make me hungry and hangry. But if you find you aren't a breakfast persona and/or you love very large meals at the end of the day, than it's a great option.
I have done 16:8 and 18:6 for four months and lost 26 lbs so I am thrilled with it and I am a breakfast person and being hungry is not going to kill you.
8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
A rest from eating? People who don't do IF also take a break from eating. I don't do IF and I promise you, the majority of my time is spent *not* eating.
It was pretty easy to eat from the time when I woke up right thru until bedtime, thus, weight gain.
And if intermittent fasting keeps you from doing that and helps you keep your calorie intake in check while providing satiety, that's a good thing. It has certainly been helpful to me in that regard. In the end, it's the calories that matter - not what time you eat them.20 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
A rest from eating? People who don't do IF also take a break from eating. I don't do IF and I promise you, the majority of my time is spent *not* eating.
It was pretty easy to eat from the time when I woke up right thru until bedtime, thus, weight gain.
Your weight gain can be attributed to the excess number of calories you consumed, not the time period in which you were consuming them.
Your experience aside, most people aren't eating in one uninterrupted stream from the time they wake up to when they go to sleep. Look at the people around you -- I am sure that many, if not all, of them have some periods of the day when they are not eating.7 -
I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
How exactly are your giving your body a rest? It's constantly doing something. If are a referring to digestion, all you are doing is taking small windows of digestion to very large windows of digestion. This doesn't even include the fact that your body only needs a rest from digestion when you have pancreatic issues (i.e., pancreatitis) or have gone through a surgery (i.e., diverticulitis) but even than they want you to eat soon as possible because it helps rebuild your system.
I did 16:8 and 14:10 for 3 months and all it did was make me hungry and hangry. But if you find you aren't a breakfast persona and/or you love very large meals at the end of the day, than it's a great option.
I have done 16:8 and 18:6 for four months and lost 26 lbs so I am thrilled with it and I am a breakfast person and being hungry is not going to kill you.
Being hungry was driving me to binge. So while it wouldn't kill me, it wasn't good for compliance. By eating 3 large meals a day, I lost and kept off 50 lbs for 6 years. So it's great that you found a solution to help you lose weight, but I am speaking from a long term weight loss and maintenance perspective.
I even tried Paleo... boy was that horrible too.12 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
5 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
I think the non sense is directed at that nutritional sweeteners spike insulin. And I would say, that may be true for some sweeteners, but I am not sure we have confidence about all non nutritive sweeteners.
The bigger concern, especially by some, is even if something does spike insulin, does it matter? And I would say, no, pending there isn't a form of insulin resistance.8 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
I can only answer for me, and nothing on your list applies. What is nonsensical to me is the idea that your body needs a break from digesting, that avoiding insulin spikes is necessary to lose fat, and that insulin spikes hinder healing and IF for three weeks will give your body enough time to heal. From something.
Hormone cycles are a thing, and certainly affect appetite, energy, and mood - all of which affect adherence, and therefore weight loss/gain, inside the framework of CICO.16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do not know why people claim that the IF research that has been done is garbage...how do you know??? Can you guarantee me that every bit of IF research is done by a quack???
BBC has a great documentary called the Science of Fasting.
Personally I think giving your body a rest from eating is a good thing (and I don't mean just while you are sleeping).
A rest from eating? People who don't do IF also take a break from eating. I don't do IF and I promise you, the majority of my time is spent *not* eating.
It was pretty easy to eat from the time when I woke up right thru until bedtime, thus, weight gain.
And if intermittent fasting keeps you from doing that and helps you keep your calorie intake in check while providing satiety, that's a good thing. It has certainly been helpful to me in that regard. In the end, it's the calories that matter - not what time you eat them.
Absolutely...now if there are potentially other health benefits down the road that will maybe occur than great. The biggest benefit is that I lost weight, no longer require blood pressure meds, so I am thrilled by that:) Good luck to everyone on here whether they are doing IF or not!5 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
As it pertains to this thread (to stay on topic), I think what's specifically being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense:
1) That IF is only effective if you "clean fast".
2) That anything with flavor spikes insulin.
3) That your body cannot heal in the presence of insulin.
4) That it takes 3 weeks for your body to "adjust and start healing itself".
And subsequently:
5) That the body needs a "rest" from feeding (beyond the fact that it's obviously not a good idea to eat nonstop all day long, that is).
I haven't seen any of your points addressed or argued either way.13 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
As it pertains to this thread (to stay on topic), I think what's specifically being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense:
1) That IF is only effective if you "clean fast".
2) That anything with flavor spikes insulin.
3) That your body cannot heal in the presence of insulin.
4) That it takes 3 weeks for your body to "adjust and start healing itself".
And subsequently:
5) That the body needs a "rest" from feeding.
I haven't seen any of your points addressed or argued either way.
I never said it was only effective with a clean fast. It's what the clean fast does. sorry I'm not good at explaining stuff. I'm trying but everything gets so jumbled in my brain, it's hard.
Anytime you start a diet your body has to adjust to it. I'm not sure what's so crazy about that.
18 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
I can only answer for me, and nothing on your list applies. What is nonsensical to me is the idea that your body needs a break from digesting, that avoiding insulin spikes is necessary to lose fat, and that insulin spikes hinder healing and IF for three weeks will give your body enough time to heal. From something.
Hormone cycles are a thing, and certainly affect appetite, energy, and mood - all of which affect adherence, and therefore weight loss/gain, inside the framework of CICO.
Did someone say avoiding insulin spikes were necessary to lose fat? I thought OP said that IF done without clean fasting was the same as any other diet (which I took to mean CICO).
I didn't follow the healing commentary... not sure what that was about, so I'm not going down that road.3 -
Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
As it pertains to this thread (to stay on topic), I think what's specifically being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense:
1) That IF is only effective if you "clean fast".
2) That anything with flavor spikes insulin.
3) That your body cannot heal in the presence of insulin.
4) That it takes 3 weeks for your body to "adjust and start healing itself".
And subsequently:
5) That the body needs a "rest" from feeding.
I haven't seen any of your points addressed or argued either way.
Who claimed #1? See my previous comment...2 -
lyssamichelle wrote: »Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
As it pertains to this thread (to stay on topic), I think what's specifically being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense:
1) That IF is only effective if you "clean fast".
2) That anything with flavor spikes insulin.
3) That your body cannot heal in the presence of insulin.
4) That it takes 3 weeks for your body to "adjust and start healing itself".
And subsequently:
5) That the body needs a "rest" from feeding.
I haven't seen any of your points addressed or argued either way.
I never said it was only effective with a clean fast. It's what the clean fast does. sorry I'm not good at explaining stuff. I'm trying but everything gets so jumbled in my brain, it's hard.
Anytime you start a diet your body has to adjust to it. I'm not sure what's so crazy about that.
"The science behind it is really cool. But only when you clean fast."
This sounds like you're claiming that IF has specific documented benefits and those benefits are only available to those who are "clean fasting."12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »lyssamichelle wrote: »Can I take a step back and ask a question regarding the "nonsense"?
What exactly is nonsensical?- Is it the idea that hormone levels cycle throughout the day?
- Is it that insulin levels are naturally lower in the morning?
- Is it that certain foods/substances can trigger insulin spikes?
- Is it that these hormone cycles have an impact on weight management?
- Is it all of it?
- Is it something else?
As it pertains to this thread (to stay on topic), I think what's specifically being called into question is the "clean fasting" nonsense:
1) That IF is only effective if you "clean fast".
2) That anything with flavor spikes insulin.
3) That your body cannot heal in the presence of insulin.
4) That it takes 3 weeks for your body to "adjust and start healing itself".
And subsequently:
5) That the body needs a "rest" from feeding.
I haven't seen any of your points addressed or argued either way.
I never said it was only effective with a clean fast. It's what the clean fast does. sorry I'm not good at explaining stuff. I'm trying but everything gets so jumbled in my brain, it's hard.
Anytime you start a diet your body has to adjust to it. I'm not sure what's so crazy about that.
"The science behind it is really cool. But only when you clean fast."
This sounds like you're claiming that IF has specific documented benefits and those benefits are only available to those who are "clean fasting."
As in the science behind IF with clean fasting is cool.11
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