Intermittent Fasting...
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jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
Sound just like what I've been learning from Dr Eric Berg
https://youtu.be/lwCRjwDs1Ek
No idea who he is to be honest, just the evidence I’ve been shown, researched etc
Awesome,. So is it the same or different?
I thought it was the same.
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jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
Sound just like what I've been learning from Dr Eric Berghttps://youtu.be/lwCRjwDs1Ek
No idea who he is to be honest, just the evidence I’ve been shown, researched etc
He's a chiropractor who has been censured and fined by the medical board in his state for unethical practices/peddling woo:
https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml
So no mention in there of Intermittent Fasting, and because one person who has a disreputable past agreed that means it’s untrue?. I’ve heard a lot from you but nothing other than your opinion, which carry’s no more weight than anyone else’s. I have simply shared my experience and the knowledge I have gained. Read genuine medical journals, from wider fields than dieticians, many of whom are not medically qualified....and you will see the evidence I have talked about. If it hasn’t worked for you, then say....I tried it and it didn’t work for me......9 -
Sorry, I didn't know u were against it.
I jumped into this thread because I was thinking off starting a tread on intermittent fasting. When I saw it I had to share what I was into. Sorry .
Hope u achive what u are working at.
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Sorry, I didn't know u were against it.
I jumped into this thread because I was thinking off starting a tread on intermittent fasting. When I saw it I had to share what I was into. Sorry .
Hope u achive what u are working at.
I’m very much for it, you will just see the above comments from others who rubble it, I feel it works for me anyway.
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jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
The argument isn't against IF. In fact, most of the people that are arguing follow IF themselves or have follow it in the past. The argument is that there are a plethora of hormones to inhibit lipolysis (ASP, GID, Ghrelin, etc...) and suggesting the modifying insulin is someone needed or helps improve fat loss. The fact is, human trials do not support insulin theory and/or any additional benefit to fat loss using various forms of IF over a convention diet (you can see below). Also, autophagy improvements are only being shown preliminarily and only have been shown in animal models.
What we can say, is that it certainly worked for you and has for many others. They are impressive results. It certainly didn't work for me. I was always starving and caused me to binge.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/9 -
I'm fast on track to lose 20 pounds with intermittent fasting in one month! It's free and it works! What I love about it the most is that I can actually feel full when I eat my food in a short eating window and still stay under my caloric goals. Years ago I would eat small meals throughout the typical breakfast and dinner hours and I would feel hungry all day because I wasn't having a "big meal" to truly satisfy my hunger. With intermittent fasting it will feel like you are having that big meal and still stay under your calorie goal because you have a short eating window. It also makes it so much easier not having to cook or buy food at a restaurant for 3 meals throughout the day plus snacks. I'm doing the 20:4 fast although most days I've been consuming all my food within one hour or two so it's more of a 22:4 fast. This is great because I only have to prepare food once a day. It's working great for me and I feel more alert and energetic throughout the day. Everyone should research intermittent fasting! And congratulations on your great results, it's inspiring! @jonathanthewlis
It's great that it's working for you, I would highly caution you on your protein levels. Aggressive weight loss, plus low protein (which most days I suspect you are) will increase muscle loss.4 -
jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
Sound just like what I've been learning from Dr Eric Berghttps://youtu.be/lwCRjwDs1Ek
No idea who he is to be honest, just the evidence I’ve been shown, researched etc
He's a chiropractor who has been censured and fined by the medical board in his state for unethical practices/peddling woo:
https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml
So no mention in there of Intermittent Fasting, and because one person who has a disreputable past agreed that means it’s untrue?. I’ve heard a lot from you but nothing other than your opinion, which carry’s no more weight than anyone else’s. I have simply shared my experience and the knowledge I have gained. Read genuine medical journals, from wider fields than dieticians, many of whom are not medically qualified....and you will see the evidence I have talked about. If it hasn’t worked for you, then say....I tried it and it didn’t work for me......
Can you share some of these journals and their evidence?
If there's anyone on this board that will dive into scientific sources and check them out, its @AnvilHead
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jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
The argument isn't against IF. In fact, most of the people that are arguing follow IF themselves or have follow it in the past. The argument is that there are a plethora of hormones to inhibit lipolysis (ASP, GID, Ghrelin, etc...) and suggesting the modifying insulin is someone needed or helps improve fat loss. The fact is, human trials do not support insulin theory and/or any additional benefit to fat loss using various forms of IF over a convention diet (you can see below). Also, autophagy improvements are only being shown preliminarily and only have been shown in animal models.
What we can say, is that it certainly worked for you and has for many others. They are impressive results. It certainly didn't work for me. I was always starving and caused me to binge.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516560/
QFT.
As has been said in all the other IF threads recently, no one is "against" IF, it's a great strategy for many people to more easily stick to their calories. There is just push back to the insulin theory and other health claims that may or may not have merit but are certainly not confirmed science as is often suggested.
Up until recently, we would encourage people to skip breakfast if they weren't hungry, and get people scolding us for ignoring starvation mode. Now it's swung the other way, and we are being scolded for suggesting the science behind the benefits of daily fasting for health is iffy. I think this is what whiplash feels like.4 -
What happened to your tat in the second pic?5
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jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »jonathanthewlis wrote: »IF isn’t just eating a Caloric defecit or a window of eating, your body produces insulin when you eat which is an anebolic hormone....reduced the amount of time your body produces this impacts the way your body transports sugar around your body and what it does with it. I’ve tried explaining this a number of times, however given up as there are so many experts that know better. I haven’t at any point said “IF made me lose weight” it didn’t, HIIT exercise, whilst in a caloric deficit drove my weight lose. IF helped get me past the last bits of fat and has helped me bulk whilst controlling the amount of fat I put back on. For those that call it a “fad” there are recorded cases of IF being used in the early 1600’s in Europe, and suspected cases before this in other parts of the world. Gentecists have also recorded other physiological benefits such as improved cell reproduction through IF, again there will be experts that say im completely wrong. That’s why I showed my own results.
Sound just like what I've been learning from Dr Eric Berghttps://youtu.be/lwCRjwDs1Ek
No idea who he is to be honest, just the evidence I’ve been shown, researched etc
He's a chiropractor who has been censured and fined by the medical board in his state for unethical practices/peddling woo:
https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml
So no mention in there of Intermittent Fasting, and because one person who has a disreputable past agreed that means it’s untrue?. I’ve heard a lot from you but nothing other than your opinion, which carry’s no more weight than anyone else’s. I have simply shared my experience and the knowledge I have gained. Read genuine medical journals, from wider fields than dieticians, many of whom are not medically qualified....and you will see the evidence I have talked about. If it hasn’t worked for you, then say....I tried it and it didn’t work for me......
Can you share some of these journals and their evidence?
If there's anyone on this board that will dive into scientific sources and check them out, its @AnvilHead
As a matter of fact Anvil practices IF as he has said multiple times. He just believes the scientific evidence like the meta-analysis that psulemon posted and not things that are published by people who have been discredited by the scientific community. I am with him on this. And I am also a practitioner of IF.5 -
emjay196363 wrote: »What happened to your tat in the second pic?
Removed? Photoshop? Inquiring minds want to know .
OP, it sounds like you feel persecuted about IF for some reason. Most folks recognize IF works for some as a means to control calories. Some of the more outlandish claims for it are not proven as is evidence by psulemon's post above.
I've seen a couple of posts in this thread about people losing large amounts of weight on a short time. That isn't necessarily a good thing (unless you started morbidly obese). Losing 20lbs or more in a 2 month period likely leads to a good amount of lean body mass loss, including muscle mass and bone mass. Ideally. one wants to lose primarily fat and preserve lean body mass. There is a max rate at which the body will oxidize fat before it cannibalizes muscle and other tissue. Thus the argument against high deficits and rapid loss.2 -
emjay196363 wrote: »What happened to your tat in the second pic?
I think one is a mirror image and the other looks like a selfie so they are two different arms. That is my guess anyhow3 -
Hello I am new here and have an IF question. I like to eat breakfast (2 eggs, spinach, black beans) within a hour of getting up, before work. Most of the people I know doing IF fasting skip breakfast and eat 12-8. Has anyone had success eating in the morning and stopping at 4 or 5 PM? (I have a about 40 lbs to lose).0
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gailjankovski wrote: »Hello I am new here and have an IF question. I like to eat breakfast (2 eggs, spinach, black beans) within a hour of getting up, before work. Most of the people I know doing IF fasting skip breakfast and eat 12-8. Has anyone had success eating in the morning and stopping at 4 or 5 PM? (I have a about 40 lbs to lose).
You window timing is not critical. That being said, 12/8 isn't a very long window. If it helps you control calories, it's fine.0 -
I meant they eat from 12 noon - 8pm. So 16 hours fasting. Isn't that standard? I find it easier to not eat in the evening than in the morning so I was thinking of starting my 8 hours at 8 am. I was just wondering about fasting before vs. after sleeping if it made a difference metabolically.0
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gailjankovski wrote: »I meant they eat from 12 noon - 8pm. So 16 hours fasting. Isn't that standard? I find it easier to not eat in the evening than in the morning so I think I was thinking of starting my 8 hours at 8 am. I was just wondering about fasting before vs. after sleeping if it made a difference metabolically.
16 hours is common. There is no real standard. It can be whatever you like that meets your goals. Some days I eat around 10, again around 6 and that's it. Other days I don't eat till 2 or so, then again around 7 or so and that's it. The important thing is not so much the window as it is the calorie control. Before or after sleeping makes no difference.3 -
gailjankovski wrote: »I meant they eat from 12 noon - 8pm. So 16 hours fasting. Isn't that standard? I find it easier to not eat in the evening than in the morning so I think I was thinking of starting my 8 hours at 8 am. I was just wondering about fasting before vs. after sleeping if it made a difference metabolically.
16 hours is common. There is no real standard. It can be whatever you like that meets your goals. Some days I eat around 10, again around 6 and that's it. Other days I don't eat till 2 or so, then again around 7 or so and that's it. The important thing is not so much the window as it is the calorie control. Before or after sleeping makes no difference.
To add, there isn't a metabolic difference in the times that you eat. In fact, it takes roughly 72 hours of not consuming calories at all to have an impact on metabolism. So if you are more compliant with not eating dinner and prefer a big breakfast and lunch, than it will be a good plan.5 -
I was responding directly to somebody else's statement which was on topic for the thread, not talking to you or addressing any of your statements. No reason for you to be so defensive.jonathanthewlis wrote: »So no mention in there of Intermittent Fasting, and because one person who has a disreputable past agreed that means it’s untrue?...
If I was starting to follow somebody on the internet as a source of information, I'd appreciate other people pointing out tangible evidence that he was a quack and not credible. It would keep me from going down the wrong rabbit hole.
I've been doing IF a lot longer than you or any of the others who've suddenly discovered it as the latest trend. It has worked just fine for me in terms of satiety and adherence, through both weight loss and almost a year of maintenance. But I don't believe in all the magick and wizardry that people are trying to attach to it and there's no evidence to substantiate any of it.jonathanthewlis wrote: »If it hasn’t worked for you, then say....I tried it and it didn’t work for me......
I think IF is very helpful, for some people, to control their calorie intake while experiencing minimal hunger and maximal satiety. But I also understand that it doesn't work for everybody. IIRC, I believe @psulemon has tried it in the past and said he was miserable on it, so n=1 really is n=1.5 -
jonathanthewlis wrote: »Sorry, I didn't know u were against it.
I jumped into this thread because I was thinking off starting a tread on intermittent fasting. When I saw it I had to share what I was into. Sorry .
Hope u achive what u are working at.
I’m very much for it, you will just see the above comments from others who rubble it, I feel it works for me anyway.
Thank for your clarification.
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I was responding directly to somebody else's statement which was on topic for the thread, not talking to you or addressing any of your statements. No reason for you to be so defensive.jonathanthewlis wrote: »So no mention in there of Intermittent Fasting, and because one person who has a disreputable past agreed that means it’s untrue?...
If I was starting to follow somebody on the internet as a source of information, I'd appreciate other people pointing out tangible evidence that he was a quack and not credible. It would keep me from going down the wrong rabbit hole.
I've been doing IF a lot longer than you or any of the others who've suddenly discovered it as the latest trend. It has worked just fine for me in terms of satiety and adherence, through both weight loss and almost a year of maintenance. But I don't believe in all the magick and wizardry that people are trying to attach to it and there's no evidence to substantiate any of it.jonathanthewlis wrote: »If it hasn’t worked for you, then say....I tried it and it didn’t work for me......
I think IF is very helpful, for some people, to control their calorie intake while experiencing minimal hunger and maximal satiety. But I also understand that it doesn't work for everybody. IIRC, I believe @psulemon has tried it in the past and said he was miserable on it, so n=1 really is n=1.
I tried it for 3 months after reading some of the awesome work from Martin Berkhan (founder of Leangains). What I discovered during that period is I was always hungry, my breath was horrible, and it was causing me to binge. Similarly Paleo did that as well. When I did both of these diets, I already lost 50 lbs and kept it off for about 3 years. At that time, I was about 16% body fat. So I was hoping to use these protocols to get leaner. Unfortunately, neither of them worked for me.
I should note again, just because those diets didn't work for me, doesn't mean they won't work for others. I just didn't line up to my circadian rhythms.4
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