Moderate carbohydrate intake may be best for health, study suggests

suibhan6

midwesterner85 wrote: »

suibhan6 wrote: »

I am of the opinion, based on my personal experience only, that a lowish-moderate carb diet works best (for me). As in providing (if you eat the right carbs) good levels of fiber, nutrition and so forth, as measured by blood parameters such as triglycerides and LDL/HDL levels. I wonder if this study checked those who ate very low carb for the types of fats and proteins they were making up the balance of their diets with. It's often the QUALITY of the macronutrients that are factors, I seriously suspect. This is why the Blue Zones work so well. It's going to be a lot more complex than breaking things down to Carb, Fat, Protein. The quality and nature of these three things are paramount.

I'll go ahead and stop you right there... this study did not include anyone actually eating a low carb diet, much less "very low carb." What the study refers to as "low carb" is actually moderate carb.

Thanks. I will have to read the actual study rather than going by the title... Still, my essential point stands.

T1DCarnivoreRunner

suibhan6 wrote: »

midwesterner85 wrote: »

suibhan6 wrote: »

I am of the opinion, based on my personal experience only, that a lowish-moderate carb diet works best (for me). As in providing (if you eat the right carbs) good levels of fiber, nutrition and so forth, as measured by blood parameters such as triglycerides and LDL/HDL levels. I wonder if this study checked those who ate very low carb for the types of fats and proteins they were making up the balance of their diets with. It's often the QUALITY of the macronutrients that are factors, I seriously suspect. This is why the Blue Zones work so well. It's going to be a lot more complex than breaking things down to Carb, Fat, Protein. The quality and nature of these three things are paramount.

I'll go ahead and stop you right there... this study did not include anyone actually eating a low carb diet, much less "very low carb." What the study refers to as "low carb" is actually moderate carb.

Thanks. I will have to read the actual study rather than going by the title... Still, my essential point stands.

If you want any information about low carb from this study, you will find none because low carb diets were not even included.

However, for what they call "low carb," there is further breakout between those who ate more animals vs. plants.

cmriverside

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

The thing that occurred to me when I read about this study is that people who are already struggling with obesity and health conditions related to weight (or that they think may be related to weight) are probably more likely to switch to a low carbohydrate diet than people who aren't struggling with weight. Would this possibly skew the numbers for low carbohydrate diet mortality?

That's the diet soda argument. When some studies show that obesity rates are higher among people that drink diet soda, they don't take into account that perhaps obese people are more likely to switch to diet soda.

Since this thread is already off the rails, I'll share my scientific survey based on 13 years of being a waitress:

A large majority of noticeably obese people will order cheeseburgers with fries or similar food - often with a nice starter of loaded potato skins or fried mozzarella - AND a diet Coke. My lovely sweet obese stepfather explained it thus, "You save where you can."

Lots of them can't really resist that Mudslide dessert, either. With a refill of Diet Coke.

I don't know how many times I double-blinked while biting my tongue.

suibhan6

cmriverside wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

The thing that occurred to me when I read about this study is that people who are already struggling with obesity and health conditions related to weight (or that they think may be related to weight) are probably more likely to switch to a low carbohydrate diet than people who aren't struggling with weight. Would this possibly skew the numbers for low carbohydrate diet mortality?

That's the diet soda argument. When some studies show that obesity rates are higher among people that drink diet soda, they don't take into account that perhaps obese people are more likely to switch to diet soda.

Since this thread is already off the rails, I'll share my scientific survey based on 13 years of being a waitress:

A large majority of noticeably obese people will order cheeseburgers with fries or similar food - often with a nice starter of loaded potato skins or fried mozzarella - AND a diet Coke. My lovely sweet obese stepfather explained it thus, "You save where you can."

Lots of them can't really resist that Mudslide dessert, either. With a refill of Diet Coke.

I don't know how many times I double-blinked while biting my tongue.

I do have to laugh at the diet soda thing. I have one highly overweight friend (she has however made some progress in recent years, after the diabetes diagnosis) who got mad at me for refusing to drink her diet soda with her. (Instead I went to the tap and got water... she hates water by itself...) Nonetheless every time she came to our rotating pot lucks back in the day, she'd bring starchy food, or desserts covered with Cool Whip that people only sampled out of politeness. And chips, but they were tortilla chips, not potato chips, so they had to be healthy... and she had her "healthy" diet soda most of us wouldn't share into.

kshama2001

kimny72 wrote: »

I like this paper because it agrees with what I believe but I think it has to get relegated to the same pile most of these studies do - it's relying on self reported data, quite possibly skewed by the participants memory, inaccurate measuring, and desire to seem like they are doing the right thing.

If nothing else, I think it's a nice pop culture antidote to the keto drum beating. But I'll still fall back on the Blue Zones when defending my carbiness to concerned family and friends

Stockholm_Andy

kommodevaran wrote: »

My thought is that the conclusion is a confirmation of what we already knew - "everything in moderation" is best, and that media will, as expected, present is as "both low and high carb diets will kill you".

Except Alcohol apparently. Even Moderate Drinking not safe as the benefits are out weighed by the dangers overall.

So I can have a slice of cake a day, which I don't like, but not booze which I do.

Oh well I didn't want to live forever anyway.

nvmomketo

midwesterner85 wrote: »

suibhan6 wrote: »

I am of the opinion, based on my personal experience only, that a lowish-moderate carb diet works best (for me). As in providing (if you eat the right carbs) good levels of fiber, nutrition and so forth, as measured by blood parameters such as triglycerides and LDL/HDL levels. I wonder if this study checked those who ate very low carb for the types of fats and proteins they were making up the balance of their diets with. It's often the QUALITY of the macronutrients that are factors, I seriously suspect. This is why the Blue Zones work so well. It's going to be a lot more complex than breaking things down to Carb, Fat, Protein. The quality and nature of these three things are paramount.

I'll go ahead and stop you right there... this study did not include anyone actually eating a low carb diet, much less "very low carb." What the study refers to as "low carb" is actually moderate carb.

Yeah... I think their low carb was about 30-35%.

hippiesaur

I couldn't find the actual study but this seems interesting as well: https://www.escardio.org/The-ESC/Press-Office/Press-releases/Low-carbohydrate-diets-are-unsafe-and-should-be-avoided

Edit:
Found the slides presented on the congress though: https://www.escardio.org/static_file/Escardio/Press/ESC Congress/2018 Slides/BanachPressSlides.pdf

macchiatto

Interesting since another thread in Debates is citing studies saying low carb diets can be helpful for people (like me) who are insulin resistant. I'm always interested in comparing notes on the research and long term effects.

JeromeBarry1

I quit reading when I got to the line that said, "At the start of the study and again 6 years later" participants reported their dietary intake.

Two questionnaires were filled out, 6 years apart. That's the very essence of self-reporting. Self-reporting is known to be false. As debate goes, I'm calling BS on the conclusions of this study. It is simply garbage data in leading to garbage conclusions out. It doesn't even deserve "further study", not with that method.

Xerogs

cmriverside wrote: »

Since this thread is already off the rails, I'll share my scientific survey based on 13 years of being a waitress:

A large majority of noticeably obese people will order cheeseburgers with fries or similar food - often with a nice starter of loaded potato skins or fried mozzarella - AND a diet Coke. My lovely sweet obese stepfather explained it thus, "You save where you can."

Lots of them can't really resist that Mudslide dessert, either. With a refill of Diet Coke.

I don't know how many times I double-blinked while biting my tongue.

yeah I've been there and done that. These days I can't drink diet soda without getting blinding headaches and my overall diet leans towards healthier options. So it's typically whole foods, less sugar, and either tea or coffee without sweetener and water. I lean towards lower carb options because it just falls in line with my weight loss journey but I don't hold strict carb limits and measure changes in the way I eat based on my how I feel mentally and physically.

Weight loss journeys are such an individual process, in my opinion. What might work well for me might do the exact opposite for someone else. Some studies try to box everything up as a one size fits all approach and then the media gets a hold of it and tries to make it this weeks gospel until next week when another study contradicts the last one. I do take things with a grain of salt and really try to see where the funding was acquired for the study sometimes facts are skewed in favor of certain businesses, markets, and ideologies. What are they trying to prove with their research and what solutions do they offer?

VUA21

Observational studies are correlation. Correlation does not equal causation. A few double-blind experimental studies would be much better