Has anyone plotted daily intake vs daily gain?

LumberJacck

I've started doing that, I want to see what my metabolism is, but I'm just on day 2. If you have done it, how did your number compare to metabolism estimators such as Harris Benedict equation?

Nony_Mouse

Scale weight isn't a static thing, even at maintenance it's going to swing all over the place due to things like water weight and the amount of food in your system. You'd need to look at long term trends (as a female, at least 6-8 weeks).

I compared my longterm data last year, in terms of weight loss vs deficit according to my Fitbit TDEE (algorithm of which is based on estimators), and I was bang on. It's often recommended here that people do that, compare actual loss to estimated loss, in order to tweak their calorie intake.

PAV8888

Similar to Nony over a period of 3 years comparing fairly accurate MFP food logging to my Fitbit TDEE and Trendweight weight trend results.

0% to 5% unexplained when looked at on a yearly basis. (0.15%, 3.15%, ~4%).

Single 30 day period as high as 12% even using trending weight.

I note that both Fitbit and mfp use Mifflin not Harris.

Obviously not every individual will be right on the population's mean value. This doesn't turn an individual into a toad: they're just an individual!

Seffell

I have for a couple of years and it only works after you can average it over a month or two. Since you are only on day 2 you will soon be unpleasantly surprised that your day to day weight goes up and down unpredictably and has no relation to your intake. This is because your body is made mostly of water and it is used for all sorts of functions and so water fluctuates in amount as reflected by your weight.

I personally found that my sedentiary maintanance is around 250cals less than what MFP uses. I think this is due to the fact that my "sedentiary" is literally sitting all day long safe for loo trips, while MFP assumes some moving around including up to 5k steps.

Edit: Of course it goes without saying that your logging has to have very little error as errors accumulate in such long periods.

AnnPT77

I tracked/compared carefully during weight loss, especially as I neared goal (not daily for the reasons others have cited, but over a period of time).

For reasons I can't explain, my actual calorie requirements are substantially higher than MFP estimates (even when I include exercise), i.e. I can eat hundreds more calories daily to maintain my weight than it estimates. TDEE calculators are closer, but still estimate lower than reality. My fitness tracker (Garmin VivoActive 3 that I've only had a couple of weeks) estimates my calorie requirement around where MFP does, possibly even a little lower.

MFP and the Vivoactive estimate me around 1400-1500 calories daily, plus exercise (which is 200-350 most days), to maintain. I lose weight slowly if I stay at 1850 + exercise, around a pound a month, maybe a bit more, so reality is in the low 2000s plus exercise. (Usually I don't stay at 1850 + exercise; I eat more, usually.)

Unknown

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Seffell

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

AnnPT77

gebeziseva wrote: »

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

In a typical day, I drink 2 cups of coffee, or one 20oz latte and one regular coffee - so not lots. I also drink a cold glass of matcha, which adds a small bit more caffeine.

I actually don't think I do have a high NEAT in the conventional sense, although I work on keeping my NEAT up (if I actually had a high NEAT, it seems like the Vivoactive would notice? I dunno). I sit really a lot. I'm finding I get more steps than I thought, but still only around 6,000 daily.

Just for clarity: I don't say I have a "high metabolism". To me, that would imply a high BMR, and I don't know that I have that. But I burn more calories, somehow, than most estimation methods think.

Some things that may contribute, purely speculating, none of which are major - in fact, they're individually tiny at best:
* I eat lots of simple, high-fiber foods, including a fair amount of raw ones, 7-15 servings of fruit/veg most days. There's some research suggesting things like that have a higher TEF.
* I do a lot of things the hard way (using larger muscle groups when I could use smaller ones) and lots of things manually that others automate (washing dishes by hand, using handbasket at the store instead of cart, etc.).
* I'm medicated for my hypothyroidism to the very low end of the normal TSH range (closer to hypothyroid, in effect), because that's where I feel best.
* Unlike a large fraction of women my age (62), even though I was overweight to obese most of my adult life (3+ decades), I wasn't much of a dieter, let alone a yo-yo dieter. (The frequency of yo-yo dieting history in my demographic may skew the calorie-requirements curve for this age/stage?)
* While I'm not objectively muscular for a woman, I think I have more muscle than most women my age. I'm definitely stronger than most of my friends, except for a few who are very aggressive strength-trainers (I'm not.)
* It's possible that my devices lowball my exercise calories. (My higher calorie needs seem to continue even when I slack off on the exercise front, as I often do in off season, but those are comparatively short periods so I have less data for them.)
* My friends say I'm not especially fidgety, but I do use big gestures when I talk, make lots of faces, and generally tend to be kind of animated in ways like that.
* My house is weird, with all living areas on the second floor. I go up and down stairs quite a bit, and all groceries, etc., have to get carried up, and all things leaving (garbage, etc.) have to get carried down.
* I'm a widow and live alone with a house & yard, so I do a lot of things myself that other women my age have husbands do (not mowing, though).

To the extent any of those are NEAT, they're not registering as burn to the Vivoactive.

That's all I've got, speculatively speaking. That, and ?genetics? (Both my parents were overweight for a least a good part of their adult lives, though; mom was probably obese, and dad may've been briefly.)

That's a real hijack. Sorry.

lynn_glenmont

Looking at four two month stretches, first during my initial loss and then a year later during a four two-month period when I was eating roughly at maintenance under the MFP prediction, both times my logging and results indicated my TDEE was about 400 calories per day more than MFP's prediction plus exercise logged at the lesser of MFP's estimate or a cardio machine's estimate. Yes, I know I'm lucky.

Edited to fix mental error.

vanmep

I have often wondered if there is a direct correlation between intake and weight. From my experience I would say not. But it would be cool if there was a way to superimpose the net calories into the weight report.

Seffell

That was very insightful, thanks @AnnPT77.

In response I think what might contribute to my lower than average burns (before exercise) is that

• I take a beta-blocker
• I have a lower than average muscle mass due to many years (more than 5) of close to bed rest state because of health issues
• I have a bad case of POTS so try to avoid standing as much as possible
• My current house is tiny and I need to make 5 steps to get from my armchair to the kitchen box and have no yard.
• I'm married and my husband does most of the chores.

The good news is I'm getting better healthwise and I've improved my activity levels a lot so there is a hope I might get to eat more in the future.
I'm 38yo, 5'7, 138lbs, have been slim my whole life appart from the last 4 years where I gained and subsequently lost 30lbs. I was slim because I smoked 2 packs a day. I no longer smoke.
I maintain at about 1500cal before exercise. Currently I add 400cals to that from exercise so it's fine. Rest days are not as good.

Going back to the original thread topic - in my particular case I've recorded several cases of no change to my weight trend for 6+ weeks during periods where I started strength training despite of constant deficit of about 300cal per day. Because I was recording all my info in an excel sheet I noticed that ALL my accumulated deficit was accounted for in the form of lost weight in several big whooshes after I stopped exercising during the 7th week (I lost 3-4lbs in the course of several days and kept the loss). I'm saying this just to show that at least in my experience CICO has worked exactly as expected. There is no magic really. And keeping a sheet of your data and analysing it is very useful in my opinion both for your clarity and motivation.

Unknown

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Seffell

sarahbums wrote: »

gebeziseva wrote: »

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

lol I do get a decent amount of caffeine, actually. I usually have 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning, one or two low-cal energy drinks, and I drink unsweetened tea throughout the day in place of plain water. That all comes out to about 300-500mg of caffeine/day. I think the maximum recommended amount is 400mg/day. I havent done much research into the relationship between caffeine and calorie expenditure, so I can't really speculate on that tbh. But it's something to consider.

Another thing that may be relevant is that i'm in recovery for an eating disorder (anorexia/OSFED) that i've dealt with for 11-12 years. There's a lot of debate out there about whether disordered eating has any lasting effect on metabolism. Just going by my personal experience, it definitely seems to. Early in my recovery I was gaining steadily on just ~1600cal. And it wasn't all just water weight. But I stuck it out, and after a couple of years of being at a 'healthy' weight, the gaining stopped. Now 1600 is my maintenance target. If i'm more active than usual though, I can get away with about 1800/day and still maintain.

I'm also a pretty fidgety person, even though I spend so much time sitting around. I'm constantly wiggling my foot or bouncing my leg or something. I tend to pace around the house a bit, too. I've heard that things like that can burn *some* calories, but idk if just fidgeting alone would be enough to account for an almost 200cal discrepancy between my numbers and MFP's.

That's really interesting.
I'll deffinitely do more research in caffeine.

I'm really glad you've recovered!

AnnPT77

sarahbums wrote: »

gebeziseva wrote: »

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

lol I do get a decent amount of caffeine, actually. I usually have 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning, one or two low-cal energy drinks, and I drink unsweetened tea throughout the day in place of plain water. That all comes out to about 300-500mg of caffeine/day. I think the maximum recommended amount is 400mg/day. I havent done much research into the relationship between caffeine and calorie expenditure, so I can't really speculate on that tbh. But it's something to consider.

Another thing that may be relevant is that i'm in recovery for an eating disorder (anorexia/OSFED) that i've dealt with for 11-12 years. There's a lot of debate out there about whether disordered eating has any lasting effect on metabolism. Just going by my personal experience, it definitely seems to. Early in my recovery I was gaining steadily on just ~1600cal. And it wasn't all just water weight. But I stuck it out, and after a couple of years of being at a 'healthy' weight, the gaining stopped. Now 1600 is my maintenance target. If i'm more active than usual though, I can get away with about 1800/day and still maintain.

I'm also a pretty fidgety person, even though I spend so much time sitting around. I'm constantly wiggling my foot or bouncing my leg or something. I tend to pace around the house a bit, too. I've heard that things like that can burn *some* calories, but idk if just fidgeting alone would be enough to account for an almost 200cal discrepancy between my numbers and MFP's.

From what I've read (research studies, can't find a cite however), yes, up to several (low) hundreds of calories per day can be burned by fidgeting.

Seffell

AnnPT77 wrote: »

sarahbums wrote: »

gebeziseva wrote: »

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

lol I do get a decent amount of caffeine, actually. I usually have 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning, one or two low-cal energy drinks, and I drink unsweetened tea throughout the day in place of plain water. That all comes out to about 300-500mg of caffeine/day. I think the maximum recommended amount is 400mg/day. I havent done much research into the relationship between caffeine and calorie expenditure, so I can't really speculate on that tbh. But it's something to consider.

Another thing that may be relevant is that i'm in recovery for an eating disorder (anorexia/OSFED) that i've dealt with for 11-12 years. There's a lot of debate out there about whether disordered eating has any lasting effect on metabolism. Just going by my personal experience, it definitely seems to. Early in my recovery I was gaining steadily on just ~1600cal. And it wasn't all just water weight. But I stuck it out, and after a couple of years of being at a 'healthy' weight, the gaining stopped. Now 1600 is my maintenance target. If i'm more active than usual though, I can get away with about 1800/day and still maintain.

I'm also a pretty fidgety person, even though I spend so much time sitting around. I'm constantly wiggling my foot or bouncing my leg or something. I tend to pace around the house a bit, too. I've heard that things like that can burn *some* calories, but idk if just fidgeting alone would be enough to account for an almost 200cal discrepancy between my numbers and MFP's.

From what I've read (research studies, can't find a cite however), yes, up to several (low) hundreds of calories per day can be burned by fidgeting.

Wow really?! I used to fidget like mad. That could also add to me being always slim. I taught myself out of it so I guess I get to eat less now. Ah well...

AnnPT77

Public service announcement: This digression about fidgeting and the like is somewhat off topic to the current thread. Unless the OP likes the digression and wants to keep it, some of it might be more appropriate to this thread, which I started awhile back:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss

heybales

gebeziseva wrote: »

Hm, looking at @sarahbums photo I wondered if the fact that I don't take any caffeine what-so-ever (I get very unwell even after decaf ) has any effect on my low metabolism. @AnnPT77 and @sarahbums, how much coffee (caffeinated drinks) do you drink on average? Asking you because both of you report higher than average metabolism. I know that Ann has high NEAT but still worth asking.
I have been through several studies which looked decent but I haven't been rigorously researching. From what I read caffeine does have effect on metabolism.

I don't want to steal the thread so I will be out after this, I hope that's alright.

A lot of caffeine is required to be noticeable on average. Look at those studies, it isn't a cup or two of coffee only.
Now you could be a person where a little will have a big effect, and not average.

Those diet pills that claim to effect metabolism are merely with caffeine or similar to try to compensate for how body generally slows down when you do diet, especially diets with big deficits where body adapts.

Metabolism as a few posts are inaccurately using as term is like the last thing effected - so many other methods the body can use to adapt to compensate, like the mentioned fidgeting, then tired and less movement in general (thyroid issues), then hair/nails/skin slow growth (that's finally metabolism), then actual slowing of metabolism.

But your TDEE (as most have been correctly calling it) can certainly down regulate without metabolism slowing.
As even those with thyroid issues before meds have shown within 5% of calculated in research.

Step trackers may help keep that on point. Though they can't see fidgeting or lack of it.
So good observation on your part.