Dairy Fat Confusion re: Health?

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kiela64
kiela64 Posts: 1,447 Member
in Food and Nutrition
So back in 2015 I went to see the registered dietician that is free through my community health centre, and the main advice I got was: switch to fat free everything - milk, cheese, yogurt. Never eat more than 1 egg/day. Eat 1/2 your plate of veggies. Don't track calories, just make sure you get all the correct food groups.

I'm sure this advice is valuable - I know i would do well to actually eat that much fruit & veg - but it does seem to be fairly outdated. Especially re: the egg things. Eggs are great, as long as you don't have high cholesterol already. I don't eat eggs every week, but when I do make them I usually have 2 or 3 to be a solid meal.

My question today is about the dairy, and whether her advice is still solid there. I've been not really paying attention to the health of my foods, just the calories & macros that keep me satiated to lose weight. I've found that eating a little higher in fat & protein, and a little lower in carb (not a true "low carb" diet though I do love bread too much) works well for me.

I often have more than the recommended "servings" of dairy in a day. I often have ~1 cup of 1% milk in my cups of coffee or tea in the morning. My favourite breakfast is greek yogurt with berries and all bran (1/2 vanilla, 1/2 plain). I had started out buying the 0% but found it left me unsatisfied in a weird way because I would be physically full but the satiation wasn't firing and my meal felt "unfinished". I switched to 2% greek yogurt and that sensation wasn't there anymore. But my grocery store recently started stocking 5% and it's the most delicious thing I've ever had. I don't have the 5% vanilla typically because that's dangerous, it tastes like ice cream and I could easily eat the whole container if left to my own devices. But the 5% plain and the 2% vanilla makes a really really delicious breakfast.

I also put cheese on everything. If I have eggs, I put cheese on them. Pasta? Cheese. Nacho chips? Cheese. And not low-fat cheese, ordinary cheese.

In a typical day I might have 1 cup of 1% milk, ~160g of greek yogurt 2% or 2+5, one 25-30g of cheddar cheese, and often 1t-1T of butter in a cooked meal (I live at home and opt to eat with my family, so I don't get to measure these meals but I do my best to guess and measure pieces eg pasta vs sauce, but not the ingredients in the sauce). My diary is open if you want to confirm these numbers, but this post is already so long lmao.

This works for me, satiation-wise and ease of access. I've lost 45lbs since April. I live at home, so the milk and cheese are part of the family grocery bill. I buy my greek yogurt separately as it's a "specialty food" and not something anyone else will eat. I have part time work, and can afford to buy separate foods, but it's very easy to just work with what's in the house/on the table and edit it to my needs.

But what the dietician told me has lingered in the back of my head, plus I've seen a lot of criticisms of dairy being fundamentally unhealthy for humans (often vegan sources, so I'm not sure if it's bias or true).

I'm hesitant to change habits that are currently working well, but I know I am able to change habits, and I do think now is a good time to try to change my diet to be healthier, rather than just smaller.

I know there are certain areas that need to change - my reliance on deli meats for sandwich lunches (while I'm working/in school - haven't had them in a while) is a known problem. It's very easy but I know that red/processed meat is not exactly a healthy option. And I know I need to eat more vegetables. But I don't really know if eating this much dairy is a Problem like that, or if it's like the egg one and outdated, and my searching for information on this topic has only left me more confused.

Suggestions would be appreciated! Thank you!

Replies

  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
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    If you can work it in to your macros, go for the full fat and especially the eggs. IMHO there is some dairy that is great without fat like non-fat yogurt and skim milk and some that really needs full fat like cheese and Half & Half. When making soups, I find that using evaporated skim milk makes soups just as good as using cream while cutting calories significantly.

    Eggs are a different story. I really don't like things like Egg Beaters so I go for the real thing. I eat about a dozen a week and do not add in extra egg whites, I eat the whole egg. Most of the nutrition is in the yolk. Cholesterol in eggs is not the boogie man it once was. First of all, eggs produced these days tend to be a bit lower in cholesterol than those of a few decades ago. Also, dietary cholesterol does not translate into serum cholesterol as was once thought.

    In other words, go with what tastes good to you and fits into your macro goals. If you are losing weight, see where you can cut calories while still eating food that you like.
  • kiela64
    kiela64 Posts: 1,447 Member
    edited October 2018
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    earlnabby wrote: »
    If you can work it in to your macros, go for the full fat and especially the eggs. IMHO there is some dairy that is great without fat like non-fat yogurt and skim milk and some that really needs full fat like cheese and Half & Half. When making soups, I find that using evaporated skim milk makes soups just as good as using cream while cutting calories significantly.

    Eggs are a different story. I really don't like things like Egg Beaters so I go for the real thing. I eat about a dozen a week and do not add in extra egg whites, I eat the whole egg. Most of the nutrition is in the yolk. Cholesterol in eggs is not the boogie man it once was. First of all, eggs produced these days tend to be a bit lower in cholesterol than those of a few decades ago. Also, dietary cholesterol does not translate into serum cholesterol as was once thought.

    In other words, go with what tastes good to you and fits into your macro goals. If you are losing weight, see where you can cut calories while still eating food that you like.

    Thank you guys for the insight! I could never really verify the vegan claims on dairy but they troubled me, although I do know that red and processed meat has been proven to be bad. That might be where I focus my attention, on replacing my work/school lunches with better options than deli sandwiches.

    I don't go for egg white only products either because it just feels wasteful to me. I don't have cholesterol issues. If I'm going to eat eggs I'm just going to eat eggs and not fuss about it. It took a while for me to figure out that her egg advice was outdated, and I was anxious about eating eggs so I made them more of an occasional meal. But I like them and they work for me, so I may eat them more often.

    I'm still losing weight, but slower. Trying to shift my focus more on nutrition and fitness than I have been. My goals before were just satiety, reduction, and avoiding spending too much money on big meals out I didn't really want due to disorganization.

    kimny72 wrote: »
    Well, a lot of this is going to be personal opinion and what you consider "healthy".

    I have never seen a medical or nutrition expert say that dairy in general is unhealthy or that only fat free dairy is healthy with any kind of reputable research to back it up. (Assuming of course you are not lactose-intolerant)

    It does sound to me like you got some pretty outdated advice, and I wouldn't be too concerned about it at this point!

    There is I believe a bit of an argument right now in the medical/nutrition community about saturated fat. The "fat-free" craze is over and was never well supported by research anyway. But there are some experts who will tell you that saturated fat should still be limited (while much of the fat in a healthy diet would be unsaturated) and others who are saying to eat saturated fat without worry. If there is a reason to limit full-fat dairy, the saturated fat would be the reason, and like I said that area seems to be up for discussion.

    I personally eat full fat dairy when I feel like the taste is worth the extra calories, and use part-skim for everything else. I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions on this :smiley:

    I think the saturated fat argument is probably where I'm still unsure. It sounds like we're still waiting on confirmation for that point? Maybe 2% (still works for satiation) is a way to sort of mediate that. I enjoy the 5% but it's really not necessary and maybe a bit Extra on the saturated fat. And then I will try to stop feeling conflicted and worried about whether this is healthy or not, and just focus on fixing the deli meat lunches & veggies problem.
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    I am not saying that it is the gospel but you might enjoy reading The Big Fat Lie. After that you will be really scratching your head. What ever diet or way of eating you prefer or are recommended to follow there will be 100s of people to tell you why its not the best path.
  • ExistingFish
    ExistingFish Posts: 1,259 Member
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    I prefer whole fat dairy. I only buy 2% Greek yogurt when they are all out of whole milk Greek yogurt. I won't buy fat free anything. When they take out the fat in most things, they have to add sugar to make it taste okay. I'm mildly lactose intolerant, but only when I eat dairy in excess. Moderate amounts are fine.
  • ExistingFish
    ExistingFish Posts: 1,259 Member
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    Like consider "Fat Free Half and Half" - they just add corn syrup. Lower fat? Yes. Healthier? No.
  • Lillymoo01
    Lillymoo01 Posts: 2,865 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Fat free plain Greek yogurt: No added sugar.
    Fat free plain milk: No added sugar.

    Yeah, fat free flavored-up stuff sometimes has extra sugar. Plain stuff, mostly nuh-uh.

    I mention this only because I'm still slightly bemused and bruised from two different threads in which I seriously had to explain to someone that although skim milk has more sugar grams per cup than whole milk, it doesn't mean skim milk has "added" sugar.

    Math literacy, SMH.

    You aren't the only one although it is interesting when you are shot down in flames for telling the truth which can easily be proven. I would also point out that flavoured-up full fat stuff often has added sugar too, not just the low-fat or no-fat.

    I personally eat mainly low-fat products (no-fat=yuck in my opinion) because I enjoy the taste of them and they give me extra calories for other things like nuts. Science is still undecided about saturated fats which also impacts on my decisions slightly. For this reason, I do feel more at ease reducing saturated fats to enable me to increase unsaturated fats. If my taste preference was for full-fat produce I am sure this influence would be much less though!

    I'd go by the philosophy of staying with what works for you at this point because ultimately being a healthy weight and exercising regularly will have a much more positive impact on your health than anything you eat for the vast majority of the population.
  • Millicent3015
    Millicent3015 Posts: 374 Member
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    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.
  • kiela64
    kiela64 Posts: 1,447 Member
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    Millicent3015 wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.

    Thank you! I would often have eg 3 slices of ham or turkey in a sandwich at lunchtime every weekday. I’m thinking that’s the one to focus on changing, and going for the 2% yogurt would be good as well.
  • ghudson92
    ghudson92 Posts: 2,061 Member
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    Unless you are lactose intolerant, I wouldn't worry. I am lactose intolerant and it makes me sad because cheese is life.
  • happytree923
    happytree923 Posts: 463 Member
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    Millicent3015 wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.

    No adult needs dairy for bone health. Countries with the lowest rates of dairy consumption also have low rates of osteoporosis. (This does not mean dairy causes problems, just that it is inessential.) Eat what you enjoy, but it is smart to look at what your diet might be missing because dairy is crowding out other food groups. Do you track micronutrients? It might be a good idea to see if you are consistently not getting enough of certain micronutrients and commit to replacing some dairy consumption with foods that will supply those micronutrients. Many greens are a great source of calcium and other vitamins and minerals if you are concerned about decreased calcium intake.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,400 Member
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    OP looking at what you're eating reminds me of my husband. He's always eaten a lot of dairy, especially cheeses, because he has never eaten meat, he eats fish and he needed to fill the void, in my opinion. He spit meat out as a child. My husband has always been very thin, with low cholesterol and excellent blood work. He supplements for protein with PP. I know you were talking about sandwich meat consumption. If you decide to cut back on meats, watch your protein.
  • nooshi713
    nooshi713 Posts: 4,877 Member
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    I buy full fat cheese and greek yogurt. I buy 2% milk only because if I had whole milk, a whole gallon would be gone in one day.and my calorie budget would be blown.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,130 Member
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    happytree923 wrote: »
    Millicent3015 wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.

    No adult needs dairy for bone health. Countries with the lowest rates of dairy consumption also have low rates of osteoporosis. (This does not mean dairy causes problems, just that it is inessential.) Eat what you enjoy, but it is smart to look at what your diet might be missing because dairy is crowding out other food groups. Do you track micronutrients? It might be a good idea to see if you are consistently not getting enough of certain micronutrients and commit to replacing some dairy consumption with foods that will supply those micronutrients. Many greens are a great source of calcium and other vitamins and minerals if you are concerned about decreased calcium intake.

    OP said ”In a typical day I might have 1 cup of 1% milk, ~160g of greek yogurt 2% or 2+5, one 25-30g of cheddar cheese, and often 1t-1T of butter".

    It would take a pretty low calorie goal before that's inherently "crowding out" other food groups, especially veggies. She may not be eating enough of them per what she says, but I eat more dairy than that in a typical day . . . and often 10+ servings of fruit/veggies (rarely less than 5), plus adequate fat and 100g+ of protein.
  • kiela64
    kiela64 Posts: 1,447 Member
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    happytree923 wrote: »
    Millicent3015 wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.

    No adult needs dairy for bone health. Countries with the lowest rates of dairy consumption also have low rates of osteoporosis. (This does not mean dairy causes problems, just that it is inessential.) Eat what you enjoy, but it is smart to look at what your diet might be missing because dairy is crowding out other food groups. Do you track micronutrients? It might be a good idea to see if you are consistently not getting enough of certain micronutrients and commit to replacing some dairy consumption with foods that will supply those micronutrients. Many greens are a great source of calcium and other vitamins and minerals if you are concerned about decreased calcium intake.
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    OP looking at what you're eating reminds me of my husband. He's always eaten a lot of dairy, especially cheeses, because he has never eaten meat, he eats fish and he needed to fill the void, in my opinion. He spit meat out as a child. My husband has always been very thin, with low cholesterol and excellent blood work. He supplements for protein with PP. I know you were talking about sandwich meat consumption. If you decide to cut back on meats, watch your protein.
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    happytree923 wrote: »
    Millicent3015 wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry about your dairy intake. We need 3 or 4 portions of calcium daily, not just for strong bones and teeth, but also to absorb certain vitamins and help our bodies function. It might be an idea to keep an eye on your saturated fat, and you can reduce red/processed meat and opt for more chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, beans or legumes if you want to. But you're not going to keel over if you have a slice of ham in your sandwich or a steak dinner a couple of times a week, especially if you add a handful or two of extra veg to fill up your plate. Moderation is key.

    No adult needs dairy for bone health. Countries with the lowest rates of dairy consumption also have low rates of osteoporosis. (This does not mean dairy causes problems, just that it is inessential.) Eat what you enjoy, but it is smart to look at what your diet might be missing because dairy is crowding out other food groups. Do you track micronutrients? It might be a good idea to see if you are consistently not getting enough of certain micronutrients and commit to replacing some dairy consumption with foods that will supply those micronutrients. Many greens are a great source of calcium and other vitamins and minerals if you are concerned about decreased calcium intake.

    OP said ”In a typical day I might have 1 cup of 1% milk, ~160g of greek yogurt 2% or 2+5, one 25-30g of cheddar cheese, and often 1t-1T of butter".

    It would take a pretty low calorie goal before that's inherently "crowding out" other food groups, especially veggies. She may not be eating enough of them per what she says, but I eat more dairy than that in a typical day . . . and often 10+ servings of fruit/veggies (rarely less than 5), plus adequate fat and 100g+ of protein.

    I was sure I replied to these but they’re gone. Life on mobile I guess. Anyway the highlights:

    I’m not worried about calcium. I haven’t really paid attention to micronutrients because I found getting enough protein very challenging but essential. I used to eat very high carb and would get about 40g of protein in over 2000 calories, so making that change was very confusing. It’s something I need to figure out if I’m making a different lunch, absolutely.

    I don’t think that I’m crowding veggies out with dairy. I’ve always been terrible at eating veggies because I hate them raw. So it takes prep & effort which I genuinely just don’t wanna do/often forget to make a priority. It’s something I need to work on for sure but it likely wouldn’t change my dairy consumption because I typically use dairy for taste in tea & coffee (tried soy and others but disliked them) and protein in meals with cheese & yogurt.

    My lower goal used to be under 1500 but I typically aim for 1600-1800 now because I’m slowing down. I have room.

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