Is sugar really that bad?
Replies
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Oh but the chocolate milk at the end is the best bit!!!3
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This literature scope of articles on breakfast cereal consumption & nutrition/health might be interesting to those so inclined:
https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/5/5/636S/4565784
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rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
I eat Coach's Oats with blue berries and a V8 for breakfast pretty much daily...I'm fine through lunchtime. And not everything has to be protein, protein, protein...I get plenty throughout the day.
ETA: I'm also not sure about your claims of limited benefits for taking a vitamin or from vitamin fortified foods. I was vitamin D deficient for a long time despite spending a good amount of time outdoors and started supplementing...I'm no longer deficient with supplementation. Vitamins in excess of what the body needs get peed away.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
I'm not familiar with the evidence for the claim that our bodies can't process the vitamins found in fortified food or only processes a very limited amount of them. As someone who is part of a population that receives a key nutrient from either supplementation or fortified foods (vegan, B12), what I've seen is that these this can work to meet our nutritional needs. What we've seen in B vitamin and iodine deficiency rates in the US since fortifying flour and salt became standard also help support the idea that fortification *can* be a useful strategy for ensuring people get what they need. What have you seen to indicate that it won't work to reduce deficiencies?4 -
The current US dietary guidelines recommend limiting foods with excessive added sugars (foods with corn syrup, sugar, etc added during processing) because of the link to heart disease, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, and weight gain.
About half the added sugar consumed by Americans actually comes from beverages like soda.
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2016/new-dietary-guidelines-urge-americans-eat-less-added-sugars-saturated-fat-and-sodium4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
I'm not familiar with the evidence for the claim that our bodies can't process the vitamins found in fortified food or only processes a very limited amount of them. As someone who is part of a population that receives a key nutrient from either supplementation or fortified foods (vegan, B12), what I've seen is that these this can work to meet our nutritional needs. What we've seen in B vitamin and iodine deficiency rates in the US since fortifying flour and salt became standard also help support the idea that fortification *can* be a useful strategy for ensuring people get what they need. What have you seen to indicate that it won't work to reduce deficiencies?
Yep. My blood work routinely shows that the only Vit D showing up is the D3 from my Vit D supplement. I don't know if it works as well, but I do at least know it's sticking, not getting peed out!2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
I'm not familiar with the evidence for the claim that our bodies can't process the vitamins found in fortified food or only processes a very limited amount of them. As someone who is part of a population that receives a key nutrient from either supplementation or fortified foods (vegan, B12), what I've seen is that these this can work to meet our nutritional needs. What we've seen in B vitamin and iodine deficiency rates in the US since fortifying flour and salt became standard also help support the idea that fortification *can* be a useful strategy for ensuring people get what they need. What have you seen to indicate that it won't work to reduce deficiencies?
Yep. My blood work routinely shows that the only Vit D showing up is the D3 from my Vit D supplement. I don't know if it works as well, but I do at least know it's sticking, not getting peed out!
Oh, yes. Vitamin D is another one that many people get from either supplementation or fortified foods. Given how many people begin taking it after having low levels of it observed in their blood work, we'd *know* if supplementing with it didn't work!2 -
As I understand it, the deal on supplements and fortified food is this:
Supplements get peed out, if they are in excess of what the body needs and is getting from other parts of the diet.
Supplements are absorbed and used by the body, if the body needs them and hasn't gotten them elsewhere.
My doctor calls supplements "insurance." They're a relatively cheap way of insuring that the body is getting all it needs, just in case one's diet lacks a bit here and there. He's a pretty decent doctor.
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On the subject of sugar and kids (quick disclaimer: I am not a parent, but I was someone's child) I think you should prepare kids to live real life. If you foresee your child living in a world where they will be surrounded by lots of sugary treats, I think it's more helpful to teach them a realistic balance.
When I was growing up, we ate plenty of sugary foods (kids cereal, Hostess cupcakes, OJ, etc), but soda was a rare "special occasion" treat and we only got chocolate candy at Halloween (in careful doses) and from Santa, much to my distress. I honestly don't know why these two foods were singled out. When I got an after school job in high school, I proceeded to assert my independence by getting a soda and a candy bar out of the vending machines for dinner many nights. After I got it out of my system, I went back to eating the way I was otherwise taught - all the food groups in meals, snacks eaten judiciously as a "bonus". Which worked fine until I got into my mid-30s and became a lazy *kitten*
ETA:
And fun fact: When I was a baby I turned yellow and my mom rushed me to the doctor. Turns out the only baby food she could get me to eat were carrots and squash, and the beta carotene turned me yellow, so maybe I was a weird kid.5 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »As I understand it, the deal on supplements and fortified food is this:
Supplements get peed out, if they are in excess of what the body needs and is getting from other parts of the diet.
Supplements are absorbed and used by the body, if the body needs them and hasn't gotten them elsewhere.
My doctor calls supplements "insurance." They're a relatively cheap way of insuring that the body is getting all it needs, just in case one's diet lacks a bit here and there. He's a pretty decent doctor.
This matches my understanding. We do eliminate (some) vitamins when they're consumed in higher quantities that we need (whether they're directly from food or from supplements/fortified foods), but if you're in a situation where you need them, then your body will use them.2 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »As I understand it, the deal on supplements and fortified food is this:
Supplements get peed out, if they are in excess of what the body needs and is getting from other parts of the diet.
Supplements are absorbed and used by the body, if the body needs them and hasn't gotten them elsewhere.
My doctor calls supplements "insurance." They're a relatively cheap way of insuring that the body is getting all it needs, just in case one's diet lacks a bit here and there. He's a pretty decent doctor.
Fst soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) behave differently from the others; they can be stored, so are a higher risk for toxicity.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.9 -
rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
This has been my experience as well. Including any roommates I've had and my family. Drinking the flavored milk is sometimes the best part.5 -
Oh, no. I can't stand the milk. It's all cereal-ey and icky.rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
This has been my experience as well. Including any roommates I've had and my family. Drinking the flavored milk is sometimes the best part.
The dread dilemma of what to do with the leftover milk, and of trying to balance the milk/cereal ratio to minimize any such problematic leftover milk, is why I seldom eat cold cereal.
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rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
They may have overly aggressive cats.1 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Oh, no. I can't stand the milk. It's all cereal-ey and icky.rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
This has been my experience as well. Including any roommates I've had and my family. Drinking the flavored milk is sometimes the best part.
The dread dilemma of what to do with the leftover milk, and of trying to balance the milk/cereal ratio to minimize any such problematic leftover milk, is why I seldom eat cold cereal.
I'm sure that plenty of people feel the same and make finding the right ratio an art.
I do find the claim that most people don't drink it to be dubious though. They may very well not but I'd wonder what the reality is.1 -
Good point. Fat soluble vitamins don't get peed out (doh!).Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »As I understand it, the deal on supplements and fortified food is this:
Supplements get peed out, if they are in excess of what the body needs and is getting from other parts of the diet.
Supplements are absorbed and used by the body, if the body needs them and hasn't gotten them elsewhere.
My doctor calls supplements "insurance." They're a relatively cheap way of insuring that the body is getting all it needs, just in case one's diet lacks a bit here and there. He's a pretty decent doctor.
Fst soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) behave differently from the others; they can be stored, so are a higher risk for toxicity.
But my pretty decent doctor tells me that, unless you're doing serious mega-doses, the likelihood of getting fat-soluble vitamin toxicity from OTC multi-vitamins is vanishingly small.
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I like @rsj7799 's theory of aggressive breakfast-table-terrorizing housecats.Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Oh, no. I can't stand the milk. It's all cereal-ey and icky.rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
This has been my experience as well. Including any roommates I've had and my family. Drinking the flavored milk is sometimes the best part.
The dread dilemma of what to do with the leftover milk, and of trying to balance the milk/cereal ratio to minimize any such problematic leftover milk, is why I seldom eat cold cereal.
I'm sure that plenty of people feel the same and make finding the right ratio an art.
I do find the claim that most people don't drink it to be dubious though. They may very well not but I'd wonder what the reality is.
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Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
I like @rsj7799 's theory of aggressive breakfast-table-terrorizing housecats.Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Oh, no. I can't stand the milk. It's all cereal-ey and icky.rheddmobile wrote: »OP, it's not conscientious parents like you that this awareness drive is aimed towards, it's parents like my neighbors whose grade school kids all weigh over 200 lbs and seem to have Big Gulp cups grafted to their hands. They eat mac & cheese as a complete meal. If your child isn't obese and doesn't throw away fruit because it's not candy, you can afford a few indulgences.
On a related topic, I think cereal - even no-sugar added cereal - isn't such a great breakfast for anyone. Since most people don't drink the milk the cereal sits in, it has almost no protein, and will create a quick burst of carby energy which will be gone long before lunchtime. Usually it's fortified, which confers the same benefits the kid would get from eating a vitamin pill, aka, very limited benefits, vitamins outside the context of the foods they come in mostly go straight through and get peed away. Remember the 70's when cereal commercials said, "Part of a complete breakfast!" And showed the cereal sitting next to bacon, eggs, and a glass of OJ?
This is an odd claim to me. Do most people really not drink the milk they put in their cereal? I would love to see any sort of evidence backing this up. Do people just eat their cereal and then dump the milk? I don't, nor do my daughters, but I guess thats just my own personal experience.
This has been my experience as well. Including any roommates I've had and my family. Drinking the flavored milk is sometimes the best part.
The dread dilemma of what to do with the leftover milk, and of trying to balance the milk/cereal ratio to minimize any such problematic leftover milk, is why I seldom eat cold cereal.
I'm sure that plenty of people feel the same and make finding the right ratio an art.
I do find the claim that most people don't drink it to be dubious though. They may very well not but I'd wonder what the reality is.
agreed2 -
BTW, to the OP, I didn't in any way mean to insinuate you're in any way a bad parent by allowing sugar in your kids cereal. Quite the opposite, actually. The fact that you're even concerned is wonderful. I think teaching kids what food labels mean is terrific education. Never too young to start that. And it certainly doesn't sound like your kids eat too much sugar.
My kids got treats on occasion. And many times they overindulged because they never got them. But I do think that natural tastes for vegetables aren't acquired if kids aren't exposed to them. I have a granddaughter that won't eat veggies unless dipped in huge amounts of ranch or even fruit without cream cheese dips (my stepson's kids who were exposed outside our house to terrible eating habits of his father). I'm terribly concerned for them all.
The earlier kids get lots of processed, sugary foods in life (I'm not saying to eliminate them), the worse off their eating habits will end up. That's all I meant and it sounds like the OP understands that very well. No, you shouldn't say never have sugar. My daughter would go nuts at Halloween (heck, I would too!). My son, on the other hand (probably because he didn't eat much sweets growing up) never craved candy. He would actually sell his candy to my daughter. He would have auctions for candy with one buyer! Both my youngest are extremely health conscious now and in great shape (and my son is an entrepreneurial type, go figure). Most of that I attribute to the "ground rules" my wife set, even for me. Set the example and I wasn't allowed many sweets either if it wasn't a special occasion.1 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Good point. Fat soluble vitamins don't get peed out (doh!).Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »As I understand it, the deal on supplements and fortified food is this:
Supplements get peed out, if they are in excess of what the body needs and is getting from other parts of the diet.
Supplements are absorbed and used by the body, if the body needs them and hasn't gotten them elsewhere.
My doctor calls supplements "insurance." They're a relatively cheap way of insuring that the body is getting all it needs, just in case one's diet lacks a bit here and there. He's a pretty decent doctor.
Fst soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) behave differently from the others; they can be stored, so are a higher risk for toxicity.
But my pretty decent doctor tells me that, unless you're doing serious mega-doses, the likelihood of getting fat-soluble vitamin toxicity from OTC multi-vitamins is vanishingly small.
Multis, maybe, although some of the health-food-store multis (vs. mainstream commercial) are a little whacky. Excess vitamin A from supplements isn't that difficult to achieve.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminA-HealthProfessional/#h80
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