Please be careful where you take your dog.
NorthCascades
Posts: 10,968 Member
Dogs make great exercise buddies. They provide lots of motivation, and they can keep you safe. Plus it's always great to bring a friend. I used borrow my sedentary neighbor's dog when I'd go for walks around the neighborhood.
I saw a disturbing video today. Somebody brought a German Shepherd on a trail where dogs aren't allowed, and let it run off leash. The dog chased some mountain goats, who waited for the dog to come to the edge off a cliff, then rammed it, knocking it to its death. I've done that hike, there are signs at the parking lot saying "no dogs allowed" and "aggressive goats in area."
I don't mean to lecture everybody because someone made a bad choice. But it seems like a good time for a general reminder. Dogs don't understand everything about the world, and need their human friends to keep them safe, too.
I saw a disturbing video today. Somebody brought a German Shepherd on a trail where dogs aren't allowed, and let it run off leash. The dog chased some mountain goats, who waited for the dog to come to the edge off a cliff, then rammed it, knocking it to its death. I've done that hike, there are signs at the parking lot saying "no dogs allowed" and "aggressive goats in area."
I don't mean to lecture everybody because someone made a bad choice. But it seems like a good time for a general reminder. Dogs don't understand everything about the world, and need their human friends to keep them safe, too.
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That’s heartbreaking, my god.4
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And if you live in a city (or anywhere that it’s the law) keep your dog on a leash. Saw a “well trained” dog run right into traffic today because his idiot owner took him off leash and assumed that he knew better. He didn’t. Fortunately traffic stopped, but I thought for sure he was going to be hit.7
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Wow that's pretty wild and heartbreaking at the same time1
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I think these are goats that we’re relocated from the Olympics this fall.4
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Friend of mine went running and let her dog off leash. It jumped a fence and was hit. Amber is OK now, but I wanted to send a get well card, “my mom was stupid and let me run off leash near traffic.” 🤦♀️6
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Never mind that dogs a. can attack other dogs b. attack people c. can run into bike traffic too fast for bikes to stop. Reasons why letting your dog off leash in a public area that isn't designated as such is a really horrible idea10
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How awful!
I draw three conclusions from this:
1) Goats are canny.
2) Dogs are trusting.
3) People are idiots.
It reminds me of a similar, but lighter, story in which no innocent beings were harmed:
A friend of mine who lives in LA - and has an explosives license - was hired to help set up 4th of July fireworks at the Hollywood Bowl one year. As he was setting up, he noticed people parking in the clearly marked off "No Parking" area. They were all well-heeled-looking people with expensive cars, and my friend figures they were just typical rich *kitten*holes who figured the rules didn't apply to them as long as they could pay the tickets.
The "No Parking" area was immediately downwind of where all the fireworks were set to go off. After the display was over, my friend got to watch the people coming back and finding their BMW's and Benz's paintwork all scarred up and singed by the hot ash and cinders from the fireworks. A lot of them were very angry, and carried on about how they would sue for damages, until they realized that they couldn't: they'd been illegally parked.22 -
Wow, those goats are hard-core...7
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A friend of mine was out hiking in the desert and let his dog run off-leash. The dog got bit by a rattlesnake (several species are fairly common out here, most notably the Western Diamondback and Mojave Green) and although the dog ultimately survived, it was a very, very expensive vet bill.
Unless dogs have gone through snake avoidance/aversion training, they don't know not to mess with them. A rattlesnake isn't going to back down when being actively accosted by a dog, and 99.9% of the time the rattler will win that fight.9 -
I live on an estuary, where adders are abundant along the riverfront. Almost weekly you hear of dog walkers who have knowingly let their dogs on to the sea wall without a lead and their dogs have been bitten. Generally the larger dogs are ok after an expensive stay at the vets, but the smaller dogs don't fare so well unfortunately.1
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Badass goats7
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People are such idiots. I would never risk the health of my baby by letting him off leash in an unknown area. When we go hiking, especially on vacation, he is always leashed. Your example is pretty extreme and terrible, but you also often hear about dogs chasing wild animals to their death or actively hunting and killing them. I would never forgive myself, if my dog hurt a fawn or a piglet!1
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TavistockToad wrote: »Wow, those goats are hard-core...
Mountain goats do not mess around.Badass goats
If I heard the same news story you did, those mountain goats were relocated because wild goat/human hiker interactions can be bad for both parties end in wild goats, and have even caused at least one human hiker death.I think these are goats that were relocated from the Olympics this fall.
I don't mean to go all dour on you guys; but when you're out hiking, you're walking through the homes of the creatures that live there. If a mountain goat (or a wolf, cougar, grizzly or other wild animal) came traipsing through your living room, you'd probably freak out; so why wouldn't the reverse be true?
Of course, if there really were a mountain goat in my living room, I'd probably hide until it went away. That's what the mountain goats usually do about humans. Unless the goat is a nanny protecting her kids; a billy in rut; or has been habituated to humans by the delicious, delicious salt we exude.
Mountain goats don't get much salt in their diet, and apparently we provide a lot of salt when we pee. Enough of us pee too close to the trail, and the goats start to see the trail as source of salt. Some goats get well enough habituated to humans that they will chew hikers' sweaty clothing and backpack straps, and will even to lick the salty sweat off the skin of people short-sighted enough to let them. So what happens when the next human comes along and isn't into the whole skin-licking thing?
Further indulging my flight of fancy about a mountain goat in my living room, if I were in the kitchen and my kids were in a bedroom on the other side of the living room - yeah, I could see myself trying to get past that goat. And if it were my BF in the bedroom; and it had been a long, long time; and I were really, really worked up.... well, no, I'm just not wired like a male mountain goat in rut.
But suppose the mountain goat were offering me some delicious food I seldom get otherwise; like, say, sashimi (mmm... sashimi... ). Really good, fresh, high quality sashimi; and salmon skin rolls to go with it (mmm... salmon skin rolls....). I might just get pretty darned close to a friendly-acting mountain goat for some high-grade sashimi.
And then if the next mountain goat to traipse through my living room brought sashimi, and the next one, and the one after that...
And then one day some big smelly hairy mountain goat with bad manners came tromping through my living room, not even bothering to wipe his feet on the way in, and he didn't bring me any sashimi ---
--- oh, man. Things could get really really ugly, really really fast.
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That person was asking for it letting their dog in an area in the first place that said No dogs allowed, poor dog. That being said my dog hikes off leash with me often, but he’s had intense training focusing on his recall. We also have an e collar for back up (never had to use it yet besides in training, but I’d rather him get a slight buzz from me than something worse happen, like death). It is always a risk you take, but I feel it is worth it. He doesn’t get to live his life to its fullest if he is always chained up by my side... you should see the joy he gets on our long hikes. After all what kind of quality of life would that be anyways? That also being said, he does not chase wild life, he loves other dogs, other people, and is very well mannered. I never take him to dangerous places with cliffs, or areas with standing water which is a danger here in FL with gators. He always stays within a few feet of me in my sight, and at my whistle he is back to me if he needs to be. There’s definitely a wrong way and a right way to do it.
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People often forget that wild animals can go wild animal.
When I was a middle school aged kid a friend had a large German Shepherd that had been a former cop dog. We startled a large raccoon out near the edge of a swamp, and it bolted up on the tree. The bark at the top of the tree let loose, and the raccoon fell about 25-30 feet into the water.
The dog was on the raccoon in seconds, and within a few more seconds the raccoon seemed to have the upper hand in a major way. Without our intervention, I think the raccoon may have killed the dog. Yep, it was that violent.3 -
That person was asking for it letting their dog in an area in the first place that said No dogs allowed, poor dog. That being said my dog hikes off leash with me often, but he’s had intense training focusing on his recall. We also have an e collar for back up (never had to use it yet besides in training, but I’d rather him get a slight buzz from me than something worse happen, like death). It is always a risk you take, but I feel it is worth it. He doesn’t get to live his life to its fullest if he is always chained up by my side... you should see the joy he gets on our long hikes. After all what kind of quality of life would that be anyways? That also being said, he does not chase wild life, he loves other dogs, other people, and is very well mannered. I never take him to dangerous places with cliffs, or areas with standing water which is a danger here in FL with gators. He always stays within a few feet of me in my sight, and at my whistle he is back to me if he needs to be. There’s definitely a wrong way and a right way to do it.
We do this too, however if another person or dog shows up on the trail (we try to go early mornings and go places not many actually go) we always put her leash on, I really dislike when an offleashed dog runs up to my dog without the owner asking first. I agree though there is a right way and a wrong way!9 -
laurenebargar wrote: »That person was asking for it letting their dog in an area in the first place that said No dogs allowed, poor dog. That being said my dog hikes off leash with me often, but he’s had intense training focusing on his recall. We also have an e collar for back up (never had to use it yet besides in training, but I’d rather him get a slight buzz from me than something worse happen, like death). It is always a risk you take, but I feel it is worth it. He doesn’t get to live his life to its fullest if he is always chained up by my side... you should see the joy he gets on our long hikes. After all what kind of quality of life would that be anyways? That also being said, he does not chase wild life, he loves other dogs, other people, and is very well mannered. I never take him to dangerous places with cliffs, or areas with standing water which is a danger here in FL with gators. He always stays within a few feet of me in my sight, and at my whistle he is back to me if he needs to be. There’s definitely a wrong way and a right way to do it.
We do this too, however if another person or dog shows up on the trail (we try to go early mornings and go places not many actually go) we always put her leash on, I really dislike when an offleashed dog runs up to my dog without the owner asking first. I agree though there is a right way and a wrong way!
Yep same here, I always leash up if there’s a person, dog or horse.3 -
I've also seen people taking their dogs in to protected (and clearly marked) waterfowl breeding habitats and let them run loose, even larger dogs don't do well against Canada geese.....5
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There used to be an area on the Appalachian trail in Virginia where feral goats (once domestic) would go up to hikers and nibble on their sweaty legs. The only way to get rid of them was to either pee or hope someone else would appear that the goats liked better. On a hike in northern California, we had deer that would follow us into the woods to lick our pee spots. Salt is salt, and they don't care where it comes from.3
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laurenebargar wrote: »That person was asking for it letting their dog in an area in the first place that said No dogs allowed, poor dog. That being said my dog hikes off leash with me often, but he’s had intense training focusing on his recall. We also have an e collar for back up (never had to use it yet besides in training, but I’d rather him get a slight buzz from me than something worse happen, like death). It is always a risk you take, but I feel it is worth it. He doesn’t get to live his life to its fullest if he is always chained up by my side... you should see the joy he gets on our long hikes. After all what kind of quality of life would that be anyways? That also being said, he does not chase wild life, he loves other dogs, other people, and is very well mannered. I never take him to dangerous places with cliffs, or areas with standing water which is a danger here in FL with gators. He always stays within a few feet of me in my sight, and at my whistle he is back to me if he needs to be. There’s definitely a wrong way and a right way to do it.
We do this too, however if another person or dog shows up on the trail (we try to go early mornings and go places not many actually go) we always put her leash on, I really dislike when an offleashed dog runs up to my dog without the owner asking first. I agree though there is a right way and a wrong way!
Had a dog once that had been abused. Hated walking her around off leash dogs, as she got aggressive. She was fine if the others were on leash and she was fine if she was off leash. Just had a weird thing being on leash if another dog came up to her.3 -
For the people who say they put the leash back on the dog if you see another person come up - isn't it at that point too late? What if that person is afraid of dogs and your dog gets too close? I'm not a fan of dogs being off leash unless the area is clearly marked that dogs are allowed off leash. It's too risky not to mention rude to those in the area who aren't expecting to come across a dog that's not on a leash.
I'm sure your dog is wonderful, but I've come across ones in the woods that scared me that were off leash who I'm sure the owner would say is a sweet, nice, non aggressive dog, and their owner just said that they weren't expecting anyone else to be around14 -
Too many dog owners are ignorant, selfish aholes. Unfortunately it’s the dogs that often pay the price. We have bike trails in our subdivision and leash laws as well. And there are always a few people who think no laws apply to them and let their dogs run free—inconveniencing everyone else. I have returned at least 6 loose dogs in the past 2 years to their owners because they leave them out in the yard all day and the dogs get bored and tunnel under the fences.13
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And if you live in a city (or anywhere that it’s the law) keep your dog on a leash. Saw a “well trained” dog run right into traffic today because his idiot owner took him off leash and assumed that he knew better. He didn’t. Fortunately traffic stopped, but I thought for sure he was going to be hit.
The people who ignore the laws because “my dog is well trained” are some of The biggest jerks around.11 -
Just another example of an irresponsible dog owner4
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If the sign says "No dogs," it means NO dogs. Period. Even well behaved dogs, well trained dogs, dogs that respond to voice commands...
I hike and run trails often (in areas where dogs are OK, but are supposed to be leashed). The number of people who get pissed off by a friendly reminder that there is a leash law is ridiculous. I don't know your dog. Your dog doesn't know me. Again, idiot owners, I know. I'm afraid I'm with the goats on this one.12 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »If the sign says "No dogs," it means NO dogs. Period. Even well behaved dogs, well trained dogs, dogs that respond to voice commands...
I hike and run trails often (in areas where dogs are OK, but are supposed to be leashed). The number of people who get pissed off by a friendly reminder that there is a leash law is ridiculous. I don't know your dog. Your dog doesn't know me. Again, idiot owners, I know. I'm afraid I'm with the goats on this one.
I agree with you. This isn't relevant to the OP necessarily. But some people think because they like dogs, everyone must like dogs. I do not appreciate people allowing their dogs to just come up and sniff me or stick their nose in my face. I don't know your dog, I don't know if they are nice or aggressive or what. I'd rather they just stayed away from me altogether.3 -
Yeah my problem is that *my* dog is aggressive with other dogs. I have lost count of the number of dogs that have run up to us (he is always leashed) while the owner yells in the background "it's OK Rover is friendly". Well that is fine and good but *my* dog isn't friendly. And chances are I am the one getting bitten by a reactive dog. If you can't recall your dog then don't let if off leash.11
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For the people who say they put the leash back on the dog if you see another person come up - isn't it at that point too late? What if that person is afraid of dogs and your dog gets too close? I'm not a fan of dogs being off leash unless the area is clearly marked that dogs are allowed off leash. It's too risky not to mention rude to those in the area who aren't expecting to come across a dog that's not on a leash.
I'm sure your dog is wonderful, but I've come across ones in the woods that scared me that were off leash who I'm sure the owner would say is a sweet, nice, non aggressive dog, and their owner just said that they weren't expecting anyone else to be around
We only hike in dog friendly areas, but i am always aware not everyone likes dogs especially mine since he can look a bit intimidating.
My dog is always a step or two in front, he never gets that ahead of me to begin with where I lose sight of him, he’s also been trained that if he hears someone up ahead to comeback to me to be leashed up. Plus his giant pointy ears swiveling forward are a dead give away that someone is up the trail 😊. He also wears a large cow bell so others can hear us approaching. Once we leash up we get off to the side so the person has plenty of room to pass without feeling intimidated. We’ve yet to “mess up” and I hiked this way with my last dog for 8 years until he passed of cancer, i don’t regret allowing him to enjoy some freedom since he earned it with good behavior. If my dog ever misbehaves you can bet that privilege would be revoked, but I don’t ask more of him than I know what he is capable of. We have trained him to have a rock solid recall.
My philosophy is respect everyone on the trail, including other hikers and the wildlife.
For a dog like mine walking on the leash at human pace is not great exercise, he really does need the off leash time to go at his own pace and smell, it’s great exercise for his brain. Here’s a video from one of our hikes, as you can tell he is always within sight and only a couple steps ahead and the cow bell is audible even over the music.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzrN-SckAbk# 4 -
unless it's a dog park that is fenced in, i prefer to have my dogs on a leash. my one dog is not always friendly. the other is a recovering feral, and i have at least one or 2 foster dogs that can have a whole rainbow of issues.
the bossy one would start a fight with those goats, the feral totally get headbutted for being curious and who knows what the fosters would do. the bossy one tried to start a "disagreement" with a draft horse as we sat at a light (and the carriage walked up). i think the draft was laughing.
my dogs are 95% on recall. didn't stop the 5% being a factor when we saw a porcupine. feral got a snoot full. bossy one thankfully listened. the belt (not made for the strain of two large dogs pulling) i was using snapped and suddenly they were "off leash"
spiky kitty was just fine4
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