Please be careful where you take your dog.
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Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.17
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robertw486 wrote: »People often forget that wild animals can go wild animal.
When I was a middle school aged kid a friend had a large German Shepherd that had been a former cop dog. We startled a large raccoon out near the edge of a swamp, and it bolted up on the tree. The bark at the top of the tree let loose, and the raccoon fell about 25-30 feet into the water.
The dog was on the raccoon in seconds, and within a few more seconds the raccoon seemed to have the upper hand in a major way. Without our intervention, I think the raccoon may have killed the dog. Yep, it was that violent.
Your dog was lucky that you were around. Raccoons in the water will usually climb onto a dog's head and hold on for dear life, which results in the dog drowning the vast majority of the time.3 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Wow, those goats are hard-core...
Mountain goats do not mess around.Badass goats
If I heard the same news story you did, those mountain goats were relocated because wild goat/human hiker interactions can be bad for both parties end in wild goats, and have even caused at least one human hiker death.I think these are goats that were relocated from the Olympics this fall.
I don't mean to go all dour on you guys; but when you're out hiking, you're walking through the homes of the creatures that live there. If a mountain goat (or a wolf, cougar, grizzly or other wild animal) came traipsing through your living room, you'd probably freak out; so why wouldn't the reverse be true?
Of course, if there really were a mountain goat in my living room, I'd probably hide until it went away. That's what the mountain goats usually do about humans. Unless the goat is a nanny protecting her kids; a billy in rut; or has been habituated to humans by the delicious, delicious salt we exude.
Mountain goats don't get much salt in their diet, and apparently we provide a lot of salt when we pee. Enough of us pee too close to the trail, and the goats start to see the trail as source of salt. Some goats get well enough habituated to humans that they will chew hikers' sweaty clothing and backpack straps, and will even to lick the salty sweat off the skin of people short-sighted enough to let them. So what happens when the next human comes along and isn't into the whole skin-licking thing?
Further indulging my flight of fancy about a mountain goat in my living room, if I were in the kitchen and my kids were in a bedroom on the other side of the living room - yeah, I could see myself trying to get past that goat. And if it were my BF in the bedroom; and it had been a long, long time; and I were really, really worked up.... well, no, I'm just not wired like a male mountain goat in rut.
But suppose the mountain goat were offering me some delicious food I seldom get otherwise; like, say, sashimi (mmm... sashimi... ). Really good, fresh, high quality sashimi; and salmon skin rolls to go with it (mmm... salmon skin rolls....). I might just get pretty darned close to a friendly-acting mountain goat for some high-grade sashimi.
And then if the next mountain goat to traipse through my living room brought sashimi, and the next one, and the one after that...
And then one day some big smelly hairy mountain goat with bad manners came tromping through my living room, not even bothering to wipe his feet on the way in, and he didn't bring me any sashimi ---
--- oh, man. Things could get really really ugly, really really fast.
The goats are not native to the Olympic range a d yes, there have been multiple aggressive encounters. They were relocated to their native area but that doesn't change who they are. No need to "go dour" on all MFP hikers and assume we don't respect wildlife.1 -
All these accounts are infuriating. The callous disregard some people have towards their own pets and wild animals, ushering their own senses of entitlement on nature trails ... Baffling!4
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I did not mean to come across as assuming that all MFP hikers don't respect wildlife: my apologies if I did.Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Wow, those goats are hard-core...
Mountain goats do not mess around.Badass goats
If I heard the same news story you did, those mountain goats were relocated because wild goat/human hiker interactions can be bad for both parties end in wild goats, and have even caused at least one human hiker death.I think these are goats that were relocated from the Olympics this fall.
I don't mean to go all dour on you guys; but when you're out hiking, you're walking through the homes of the creatures that live there. If a mountain goat (or a wolf, cougar, grizzly or other wild animal) came traipsing through your living room, you'd probably freak out; so why wouldn't the reverse be true?
Of course, if there really were a mountain goat in my living room, I'd probably hide until it went away. That's what the mountain goats usually do about humans. Unless the goat is a nanny protecting her kids; a billy in rut; or has been habituated to humans by the delicious, delicious salt we exude.
Mountain goats don't get much salt in their diet, and apparently we provide a lot of salt when we pee. Enough of us pee too close to the trail, and the goats start to see the trail as source of salt. Some goats get well enough habituated to humans that they will chew hikers' sweaty clothing and backpack straps, and will even to lick the salty sweat off the skin of people short-sighted enough to let them. So what happens when the next human comes along and isn't into the whole skin-licking thing?
Further indulging my flight of fancy about a mountain goat in my living room, if I were in the kitchen and my kids were in a bedroom on the other side of the living room - yeah, I could see myself trying to get past that goat. And if it were my BF in the bedroom; and it had been a long, long time; and I were really, really worked up.... well, no, I'm just not wired like a male mountain goat in rut.
But suppose the mountain goat were offering me some delicious food I seldom get otherwise; like, say, sashimi (mmm... sashimi... ). Really good, fresh, high quality sashimi; and salmon skin rolls to go with it (mmm... salmon skin rolls....). I might just get pretty darned close to a friendly-acting mountain goat for some high-grade sashimi.
And then if the next mountain goat to traipse through my living room brought sashimi, and the next one, and the one after that...
And then one day some big smelly hairy mountain goat with bad manners came tromping through my living room, not even bothering to wipe his feet on the way in, and he didn't bring me any sashimi ---
--- oh, man. Things could get really really ugly, really really fast.
The goats are not native to the Olympic range a d yes, there have been multiple aggressive encounters. They were relocated to their native area but that doesn't change who they are. No need to "go dour" on all MFP hikers and assume we don't respect wildlife.
I did assume that sensible MFP hikers like yourself and @NorthCascades would take my dourness as "preaching to the choir," and it sounds like that may have been a bad assumption. (And maybe I also sounded preachier than I thought I did.) What I meant to convey was my respect for badass mountain goats; and then I hoped that others would be as amused as I was by the idea of a mountain goat standing in my living room offering me sashimi.
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I kept my dog leashed when out-and-about, as he was frisky and approached all living things with an active, friendly curiosity. I typically used an expanding-length leash for some freedom at appropriate times. "Appropriate" is key; I nearly "clotheslined" a not-too-controlled dog this summer, when the owners, in a multiuse environment, let him range wildly and he shot across my line of travel, directly ahead of me, his leash freely running behind him. Would have resulted in a tumble for me, too, I think - thank goodness for responsive, disc brakes. The owners' response, "Oops! Well, glad all's ok." Hrmmph.
On the other hand, when I encounter owners controlling their dogs and being responsible to us riders on the paths, no matter how mangy the mutt, I'll say something like, "Oh, what a beautiful dog!" or at least, "thank you!" - I figure some proactive positive reinforcement will have some impact on better safety down the line. I never fail to get a smile in return.
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
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Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This!!! I was trail running one day and rounded a hill then a huge Saint Bernard mix ran up to me barking frantically. I froze and it was a bit confused by me not running as it clearly wanted to chase me. It kept going around me in circles and jumping up to my face level constantly barking. The owner came over and had a hard time getting the dog away from me. Once she had him by the collar I asked her why the hell wasn’t the dog on a leash and she said it’s because he was “afraid of people”
really?! Just keep your animals on a leash where required, period! 7 -
monkeefan1974 wrote: »Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This!!! I was trail running one day and rounded a hill then a huge Saint Bernard mix ran up to me barking frantically. I froze and it was a bit confused by me not running as it clearly wanted to chase me. It kept going around me in circles and jumping up to my face level constantly barking. The owner came over and had a hard time getting the dog away from me. Once she had him by the collar I asked her why the hell wasn’t the dog on a leash and she said it’s because he was “afraid of people” really?! Just keep your animals on a leash where required, period!
My sister and I had almost the same experience on our PM traill run earlier this very week. It crept up on us though, and circled, only getting agitated as his owner drew closer with her annoying whistle, summoning him - he was ignoring ALL her commands, which is scary. When asked about why he wasn't leashed, she replied that he hated being leashed. She expected us to be afraid of her mastiff. Lol. Some people don't deserve their pets ... Loose canons!4 -
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
Ah, I guess you're in south jersey. Driving to work in north jersey, I hear lots of talk on the radio about bears.
Regarding wildlife - we have large predatory birds in my area (SE PA) like eagles. I have cats. We do not let the cats out unsupervised nor do we let them leave the porch (which they learned really fast). We also have fox, another critter that would make short work of kitteh.1 -
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
Ah, I guess you're in south jersey. Driving to work in north jersey, I hear lots of talk on the radio about bears.
Regarding wildlife - we have large predatory birds in my area (SE PA) like eagles. I have cats. We do not let the cats out unsupervised nor do we let them leave the porch (which they learned really fast). We also have fox, another critter that would make short work of kitteh.
Central NJ. Northern Jersey Shore. That pic above (horses on trail) is from Blairstown, near the DE Water Gap (Paulinskill Trail, early September). I did a group ride that day (I'm usually a solo guy) because I didn't want to ride up in that area alone with the bears lurking around. Yeah, so in my daily rides, I usually encounter seagulls more than anything else, LOL, and don't think about predators or other large game except deer (of which we've got tons, and one day I'm going to hit one - my bike gears and chain are pretty quiet - and I've actually startled a bunch of them in offroad situations).
I spent 3 yrs working in Hackettstown years ago. Almost moved up there. But the ocean called more strongly.1 -
All parks and trails governed by the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources not only have leashes required, but they cannot be longer than 8 feet. A few parks are no dogs allowed and several have separate swimming beaches for dogs where they are allowed to be off leash. No dogs are allowed in the picnic areas. Some charge a separate fee for dogs just like they charge a fee for horses.
City and county parks and paths have their own laws but generally leashes are required.
I belong to a hiking club and we do not allow dogs to come along on the hikes. Doesn't matter how good the dog is, there is always a chance something could happen so best to say no to everyone than pick and choose.
In my area, we have predatory birds as well as coyotes and foxes. Further north you can run into bear and in the far north there is the possibility of moose (not many but they are there) who can be very aggressive towards dogs.
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Please don't use those retractable leashes. They should be banned.
My sons girl friend allowed her six year old grand daughter to walk his one year old puppy on one of those.
The little girl didn't know how to control the button and keep the leash short.
Puppy ran into the road and was killed by a car.
Two years later my son is still grieving and the relationship broke up.
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I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. ...I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This is my experience. I love dogs. I've owned dogs all my life. I'll gladly love other people's dogs - if they leave me alone. I have to carry dog-specific mace when I run or cycle in my community to protect myself. On occasion I have to use it. I feel bad but I don't want to deal with a dog bite. Folks must control their pets.
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In opposite land , neighbour's dogs chased my goats over a cliff two years ago. Everyone keep your animals in check, pls, you are their guardians.9
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monkeefan1974 wrote: »Once she had him by the collar I asked her why the hell wasn’t the dog on a leash and she said it’s because he was “afraid of people” really?! Just keep your animals on a leash where required, period!
OMG - all the more reason to have the dog on a leash! Scared dogs aren't always predictable!!
My dog is also scared of people - she keeps away from them, and I feel like a big meanie, because the lead I insist she be on doesn't let her be as far away as she would like (I'm okay with being a meanie though - she'd be at risk of running into the road to avoid people, so not an option). I can try and give her as much space as possible or cross the road to not make her uncomfortable, but the leash stays.
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garystrickland357 wrote: »I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. ...I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This is my experience. I love dogs. I've owned dogs all my life. I'll gladly love other people's dogs - if they leave me alone. I have to carry dog-specific mace when I run or cycle in my community to protect myself. On occasion I have to use it. I feel bad but I don't want to deal with a dog bite. Folks must control their pets.
Same here. Years ago I was running through the neighborhood and came across a woman with a white, 40-50 lb. dog off-leash (she didn't even have one with her). The dog ran up to me barking and snarling, and was jumping up on me and snapping an inch from my face and scratching the *kitten* out of my legs and chest with it's nails. This woman just stands there laughing and didn't pull her dog off until I started kicking it. I'm there covered in blood and she yells at me because "it's only a puppy" and "just playing". If she weren't a woman I would've leveled her.
I started carrying dog spray after that, and I've had to use it a few times, too. If someone won't control their dogs, I'll do it for them.12 -
garystrickland357 wrote: »I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. ...I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This is my experience. I love dogs. I've owned dogs all my life. I'll gladly love other people's dogs - if they leave me alone. I have to carry dog-specific mace when I run or cycle in my community to protect myself. On occasion I have to use it. I feel bad but I don't want to deal with a dog bite. Folks must control their pets.
Same here. Years ago I was running through the neighborhood and came across a woman with a white, 40-50 lb. dog off-leash (she didn't even have one with her). The dog ran up to me barking and snarling, and was jumping up on me and snapping an inch from my face and scratching the *kitten* out of my legs and chest with it's nails. This woman just stands there laughing and didn't pull her dog off until I started kicking it. I'm there covered in blood and she yells at me because "it's only a puppy" and "just playing". If she weren't a woman I would've leveled her.
I started carrying dog spray after that, and I've had to use it a few times, too. If someone won't control their dogs, I'll do it for them.
That's BS! That lady should have her dog taken away. Irresponsible people should not own pets.5 -
100% ⬆thisgarystrickland357 wrote: »I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. ...I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This is my experience. I love dogs. I've owned dogs all my life. I'll gladly love other people's dogs - if they leave me alone. I have to carry dog-specific mace when I run or cycle in my community to protect myself. On occasion I have to use it. I feel bad but I don't want to deal with a dog bite. Folks must control their pets.
Same here. Years ago I was running through the neighborhood and came across a woman with a white, 40-50 lb. dog off-leash (she didn't even have one with her). The dog ran up to me barking and snarling, and was jumping up on me and snapping an inch from my face and scratching the *kitten* out of my legs and chest with it's nails. This woman just stands there laughing and didn't pull her dog off until I started kicking it. I'm there covered in blood and she yells at me because "it's only a puppy" and "just playing". If she weren't a woman I would've leveled her.
I started carrying dog spray after that, and I've had to use it a few times, too. If someone won't control their dogs, I'll do it for them.
That's BS! That lady should have her dog taken away. Irresponsible people should not own pets.
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777Gemma888 wrote: »
100% ⬆thisgarystrickland357 wrote: »I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. ...I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This is my experience. I love dogs. I've owned dogs all my life. I'll gladly love other people's dogs - if they leave me alone. I have to carry dog-specific mace when I run or cycle in my community to protect myself. On occasion I have to use it. I feel bad but I don't want to deal with a dog bite. Folks must control their pets.
Same here. Years ago I was running through the neighborhood and came across a woman with a white, 40-50 lb. dog off-leash (she didn't even have one with her). The dog ran up to me barking and snarling, and was jumping up on me and snapping an inch from my face and scratching the *kitten* out of my legs and chest with it's nails. This woman just stands there laughing and didn't pull her dog off until I started kicking it. I'm there covered in blood and she yells at me because "it's only a puppy" and "just playing". If she weren't a woman I would've leveled her.
I started carrying dog spray after that, and I've had to use it a few times, too. If someone won't control their dogs, I'll do it for them.
That's BS! That lady should have her dog taken away. Irresponsible people should not own pets.
I agree, though leash laws are very lax where I live. Unless a dog bites a minor, Animal Conrtol is powerless and there's nothing they can do. So you need to take steps to protect yourself around here.3 -
I live in Colorado and hike a lot. As much as I adore dogs, I'm starting to really love the hikes that don't allow any dogs at all. I can't even say how many times off leash dogs have aggressively ran to me and barked. They can be scary because I have no idea how safe strange dogs are.
I also have a tiny dog, who was abused and homeless in a former life. My dog is afraid of everyone and every dog regardless of size. It is so rude for dogs off leash to run up to my leashed dog who then shakes in fear and tries to bark to protect herself.
And don't even get me started on the massive amounts of dog poop not picked up by owners. And btw dog owners, when you do place your dog's poop in those lovely green or black bags - YOU are expected to pack it out.
Rant over!7
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