Please be careful where you take your dog.
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laurenebargar wrote: »That person was asking for it letting their dog in an area in the first place that said No dogs allowed, poor dog. That being said my dog hikes off leash with me often, but he’s had intense training focusing on his recall. We also have an e collar for back up (never had to use it yet besides in training, but I’d rather him get a slight buzz from me than something worse happen, like death). It is always a risk you take, but I feel it is worth it. He doesn’t get to live his life to its fullest if he is always chained up by my side... you should see the joy he gets on our long hikes. After all what kind of quality of life would that be anyways? That also being said, he does not chase wild life, he loves other dogs, other people, and is very well mannered. I never take him to dangerous places with cliffs, or areas with standing water which is a danger here in FL with gators. He always stays within a few feet of me in my sight, and at my whistle he is back to me if he needs to be. There’s definitely a wrong way and a right way to do it.
We do this too, however if another person or dog shows up on the trail (we try to go early mornings and go places not many actually go) we always put her leash on, I really dislike when an offleashed dog runs up to my dog without the owner asking first. I agree though there is a right way and a wrong way!
Had a dog once that had been abused. Hated walking her around off leash dogs, as she got aggressive. She was fine if the others were on leash and she was fine if she was off leash. Just had a weird thing being on leash if another dog came up to her.3 -
For the people who say they put the leash back on the dog if you see another person come up - isn't it at that point too late? What if that person is afraid of dogs and your dog gets too close? I'm not a fan of dogs being off leash unless the area is clearly marked that dogs are allowed off leash. It's too risky not to mention rude to those in the area who aren't expecting to come across a dog that's not on a leash.
I'm sure your dog is wonderful, but I've come across ones in the woods that scared me that were off leash who I'm sure the owner would say is a sweet, nice, non aggressive dog, and their owner just said that they weren't expecting anyone else to be around14 -
Too many dog owners are ignorant, selfish aholes. Unfortunately it’s the dogs that often pay the price. We have bike trails in our subdivision and leash laws as well. And there are always a few people who think no laws apply to them and let their dogs run free—inconveniencing everyone else. I have returned at least 6 loose dogs in the past 2 years to their owners because they leave them out in the yard all day and the dogs get bored and tunnel under the fences.13
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And if you live in a city (or anywhere that it’s the law) keep your dog on a leash. Saw a “well trained” dog run right into traffic today because his idiot owner took him off leash and assumed that he knew better. He didn’t. Fortunately traffic stopped, but I thought for sure he was going to be hit.
The people who ignore the laws because “my dog is well trained” are some of The biggest jerks around.11 -
Just another example of an irresponsible dog owner4
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If the sign says "No dogs," it means NO dogs. Period. Even well behaved dogs, well trained dogs, dogs that respond to voice commands...
I hike and run trails often (in areas where dogs are OK, but are supposed to be leashed). The number of people who get pissed off by a friendly reminder that there is a leash law is ridiculous. I don't know your dog. Your dog doesn't know me. Again, idiot owners, I know. I'm afraid I'm with the goats on this one.12 -
girlwithcurls2 wrote: »If the sign says "No dogs," it means NO dogs. Period. Even well behaved dogs, well trained dogs, dogs that respond to voice commands...
I hike and run trails often (in areas where dogs are OK, but are supposed to be leashed). The number of people who get pissed off by a friendly reminder that there is a leash law is ridiculous. I don't know your dog. Your dog doesn't know me. Again, idiot owners, I know. I'm afraid I'm with the goats on this one.
I agree with you. This isn't relevant to the OP necessarily. But some people think because they like dogs, everyone must like dogs. I do not appreciate people allowing their dogs to just come up and sniff me or stick their nose in my face. I don't know your dog, I don't know if they are nice or aggressive or what. I'd rather they just stayed away from me altogether.3 -
Yeah my problem is that *my* dog is aggressive with other dogs. I have lost count of the number of dogs that have run up to us (he is always leashed) while the owner yells in the background "it's OK Rover is friendly". Well that is fine and good but *my* dog isn't friendly. And chances are I am the one getting bitten by a reactive dog. If you can't recall your dog then don't let if off leash.11
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For the people who say they put the leash back on the dog if you see another person come up - isn't it at that point too late? What if that person is afraid of dogs and your dog gets too close? I'm not a fan of dogs being off leash unless the area is clearly marked that dogs are allowed off leash. It's too risky not to mention rude to those in the area who aren't expecting to come across a dog that's not on a leash.
I'm sure your dog is wonderful, but I've come across ones in the woods that scared me that were off leash who I'm sure the owner would say is a sweet, nice, non aggressive dog, and their owner just said that they weren't expecting anyone else to be around
We only hike in dog friendly areas, but i am always aware not everyone likes dogs especially mine since he can look a bit intimidating.
My dog is always a step or two in front, he never gets that ahead of me to begin with where I lose sight of him, he’s also been trained that if he hears someone up ahead to comeback to me to be leashed up. Plus his giant pointy ears swiveling forward are a dead give away that someone is up the trail 😊. He also wears a large cow bell so others can hear us approaching. Once we leash up we get off to the side so the person has plenty of room to pass without feeling intimidated. We’ve yet to “mess up” and I hiked this way with my last dog for 8 years until he passed of cancer, i don’t regret allowing him to enjoy some freedom since he earned it with good behavior. If my dog ever misbehaves you can bet that privilege would be revoked, but I don’t ask more of him than I know what he is capable of. We have trained him to have a rock solid recall.
My philosophy is respect everyone on the trail, including other hikers and the wildlife.
For a dog like mine walking on the leash at human pace is not great exercise, he really does need the off leash time to go at his own pace and smell, it’s great exercise for his brain. Here’s a video from one of our hikes, as you can tell he is always within sight and only a couple steps ahead and the cow bell is audible even over the music.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RzrN-SckAbk# 4 -
unless it's a dog park that is fenced in, i prefer to have my dogs on a leash. my one dog is not always friendly. the other is a recovering feral, and i have at least one or 2 foster dogs that can have a whole rainbow of issues.
the bossy one would start a fight with those goats, the feral totally get headbutted for being curious and who knows what the fosters would do. the bossy one tried to start a "disagreement" with a draft horse as we sat at a light (and the carriage walked up). i think the draft was laughing.
my dogs are 95% on recall. didn't stop the 5% being a factor when we saw a porcupine. feral got a snoot full. bossy one thankfully listened. the belt (not made for the strain of two large dogs pulling) i was using snapped and suddenly they were "off leash"
spiky kitty was just fine4 -
Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.17
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robertw486 wrote: »People often forget that wild animals can go wild animal.
When I was a middle school aged kid a friend had a large German Shepherd that had been a former cop dog. We startled a large raccoon out near the edge of a swamp, and it bolted up on the tree. The bark at the top of the tree let loose, and the raccoon fell about 25-30 feet into the water.
The dog was on the raccoon in seconds, and within a few more seconds the raccoon seemed to have the upper hand in a major way. Without our intervention, I think the raccoon may have killed the dog. Yep, it was that violent.
Your dog was lucky that you were around. Raccoons in the water will usually climb onto a dog's head and hold on for dear life, which results in the dog drowning the vast majority of the time.3 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Wow, those goats are hard-core...
Mountain goats do not mess around.Badass goats
If I heard the same news story you did, those mountain goats were relocated because wild goat/human hiker interactions can be bad for both parties end in wild goats, and have even caused at least one human hiker death.I think these are goats that were relocated from the Olympics this fall.
I don't mean to go all dour on you guys; but when you're out hiking, you're walking through the homes of the creatures that live there. If a mountain goat (or a wolf, cougar, grizzly or other wild animal) came traipsing through your living room, you'd probably freak out; so why wouldn't the reverse be true?
Of course, if there really were a mountain goat in my living room, I'd probably hide until it went away. That's what the mountain goats usually do about humans. Unless the goat is a nanny protecting her kids; a billy in rut; or has been habituated to humans by the delicious, delicious salt we exude.
Mountain goats don't get much salt in their diet, and apparently we provide a lot of salt when we pee. Enough of us pee too close to the trail, and the goats start to see the trail as source of salt. Some goats get well enough habituated to humans that they will chew hikers' sweaty clothing and backpack straps, and will even to lick the salty sweat off the skin of people short-sighted enough to let them. So what happens when the next human comes along and isn't into the whole skin-licking thing?
Further indulging my flight of fancy about a mountain goat in my living room, if I were in the kitchen and my kids were in a bedroom on the other side of the living room - yeah, I could see myself trying to get past that goat. And if it were my BF in the bedroom; and it had been a long, long time; and I were really, really worked up.... well, no, I'm just not wired like a male mountain goat in rut.
But suppose the mountain goat were offering me some delicious food I seldom get otherwise; like, say, sashimi (mmm... sashimi... ). Really good, fresh, high quality sashimi; and salmon skin rolls to go with it (mmm... salmon skin rolls....). I might just get pretty darned close to a friendly-acting mountain goat for some high-grade sashimi.
And then if the next mountain goat to traipse through my living room brought sashimi, and the next one, and the one after that...
And then one day some big smelly hairy mountain goat with bad manners came tromping through my living room, not even bothering to wipe his feet on the way in, and he didn't bring me any sashimi ---
--- oh, man. Things could get really really ugly, really really fast.
The goats are not native to the Olympic range a d yes, there have been multiple aggressive encounters. They were relocated to their native area but that doesn't change who they are. No need to "go dour" on all MFP hikers and assume we don't respect wildlife.1 -
All these accounts are infuriating. The callous disregard some people have towards their own pets and wild animals, ushering their own senses of entitlement on nature trails ... Baffling!4
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I did not mean to come across as assuming that all MFP hikers don't respect wildlife: my apologies if I did.Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Wow, those goats are hard-core...
Mountain goats do not mess around.Badass goats
If I heard the same news story you did, those mountain goats were relocated because wild goat/human hiker interactions can be bad for both parties end in wild goats, and have even caused at least one human hiker death.I think these are goats that were relocated from the Olympics this fall.
I don't mean to go all dour on you guys; but when you're out hiking, you're walking through the homes of the creatures that live there. If a mountain goat (or a wolf, cougar, grizzly or other wild animal) came traipsing through your living room, you'd probably freak out; so why wouldn't the reverse be true?
Of course, if there really were a mountain goat in my living room, I'd probably hide until it went away. That's what the mountain goats usually do about humans. Unless the goat is a nanny protecting her kids; a billy in rut; or has been habituated to humans by the delicious, delicious salt we exude.
Mountain goats don't get much salt in their diet, and apparently we provide a lot of salt when we pee. Enough of us pee too close to the trail, and the goats start to see the trail as source of salt. Some goats get well enough habituated to humans that they will chew hikers' sweaty clothing and backpack straps, and will even to lick the salty sweat off the skin of people short-sighted enough to let them. So what happens when the next human comes along and isn't into the whole skin-licking thing?
Further indulging my flight of fancy about a mountain goat in my living room, if I were in the kitchen and my kids were in a bedroom on the other side of the living room - yeah, I could see myself trying to get past that goat. And if it were my BF in the bedroom; and it had been a long, long time; and I were really, really worked up.... well, no, I'm just not wired like a male mountain goat in rut.
But suppose the mountain goat were offering me some delicious food I seldom get otherwise; like, say, sashimi (mmm... sashimi... ). Really good, fresh, high quality sashimi; and salmon skin rolls to go with it (mmm... salmon skin rolls....). I might just get pretty darned close to a friendly-acting mountain goat for some high-grade sashimi.
And then if the next mountain goat to traipse through my living room brought sashimi, and the next one, and the one after that...
And then one day some big smelly hairy mountain goat with bad manners came tromping through my living room, not even bothering to wipe his feet on the way in, and he didn't bring me any sashimi ---
--- oh, man. Things could get really really ugly, really really fast.
The goats are not native to the Olympic range a d yes, there have been multiple aggressive encounters. They were relocated to their native area but that doesn't change who they are. No need to "go dour" on all MFP hikers and assume we don't respect wildlife.
I did assume that sensible MFP hikers like yourself and @NorthCascades would take my dourness as "preaching to the choir," and it sounds like that may have been a bad assumption. (And maybe I also sounded preachier than I thought I did.) What I meant to convey was my respect for badass mountain goats; and then I hoped that others would be as amused as I was by the idea of a mountain goat standing in my living room offering me sashimi.
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I kept my dog leashed when out-and-about, as he was frisky and approached all living things with an active, friendly curiosity. I typically used an expanding-length leash for some freedom at appropriate times. "Appropriate" is key; I nearly "clotheslined" a not-too-controlled dog this summer, when the owners, in a multiuse environment, let him range wildly and he shot across my line of travel, directly ahead of me, his leash freely running behind him. Would have resulted in a tumble for me, too, I think - thank goodness for responsive, disc brakes. The owners' response, "Oops! Well, glad all's ok." Hrmmph.
On the other hand, when I encounter owners controlling their dogs and being responsible to us riders on the paths, no matter how mangy the mutt, I'll say something like, "Oh, what a beautiful dog!" or at least, "thank you!" - I figure some proactive positive reinforcement will have some impact on better safety down the line. I never fail to get a smile in return.
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
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Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This!!! I was trail running one day and rounded a hill then a huge Saint Bernard mix ran up to me barking frantically. I froze and it was a bit confused by me not running as it clearly wanted to chase me. It kept going around me in circles and jumping up to my face level constantly barking. The owner came over and had a hard time getting the dog away from me. Once she had him by the collar I asked her why the hell wasn’t the dog on a leash and she said it’s because he was “afraid of people”
really?! Just keep your animals on a leash where required, period! 7 -
monkeefan1974 wrote: »Seriously, please keep your dog on a leash if you have them on public trails/sidewalks, and please make sure that leash actually allows you to control the dog. I'm a runner and I've been bitten and jumped on by dogs multiple times while I was on public sidewalks and trails. The dogs were all either off leash or on a long retractable leash that allowed the owner no control over the dog. Every one of these incidents was followed by the owner immediately telling me how well behaved his dog is. It doesn't matter how well behaved or well trained you think your dog is. Your dog is still an animal who can still do unpredictable things that are bad for either your dog or other humans. I'm not especially scared of the wildlife I encounter on the trail, but I am definitely concerned when I see a human with an off-leash dog, since those are the only real dangers I've experienced while running so far.
This!!! I was trail running one day and rounded a hill then a huge Saint Bernard mix ran up to me barking frantically. I froze and it was a bit confused by me not running as it clearly wanted to chase me. It kept going around me in circles and jumping up to my face level constantly barking. The owner came over and had a hard time getting the dog away from me. Once she had him by the collar I asked her why the hell wasn’t the dog on a leash and she said it’s because he was “afraid of people” really?! Just keep your animals on a leash where required, period!
My sister and I had almost the same experience on our PM traill run earlier this very week. It crept up on us though, and circled, only getting agitated as his owner drew closer with her annoying whistle, summoning him - he was ignoring ALL her commands, which is scary. When asked about why he wasn't leashed, she replied that he hated being leashed. She expected us to be afraid of her mastiff. Lol. Some people don't deserve their pets ... Loose canons!4 -
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
Ah, I guess you're in south jersey. Driving to work in north jersey, I hear lots of talk on the radio about bears.
Regarding wildlife - we have large predatory birds in my area (SE PA) like eagles. I have cats. We do not let the cats out unsupervised nor do we let them leave the porch (which they learned really fast). We also have fox, another critter that would make short work of kitteh.1 -
We don't have a lot of predatory wildlife (or assertive animals such as those goats) here in NJ - at least critters that will go after dogs, so I'm not sure those concerns are at the top of anyone's minds. Horses on some trails are about it. We all seem to get along OK when mixing horses and bikes (bikes are supposed to slow/stop and yield to the horses, who can be skittish).
Ah, I guess you're in south jersey. Driving to work in north jersey, I hear lots of talk on the radio about bears.
Regarding wildlife - we have large predatory birds in my area (SE PA) like eagles. I have cats. We do not let the cats out unsupervised nor do we let them leave the porch (which they learned really fast). We also have fox, another critter that would make short work of kitteh.
Central NJ. Northern Jersey Shore. That pic above (horses on trail) is from Blairstown, near the DE Water Gap (Paulinskill Trail, early September). I did a group ride that day (I'm usually a solo guy) because I didn't want to ride up in that area alone with the bears lurking around. Yeah, so in my daily rides, I usually encounter seagulls more than anything else, LOL, and don't think about predators or other large game except deer (of which we've got tons, and one day I'm going to hit one - my bike gears and chain are pretty quiet - and I've actually startled a bunch of them in offroad situations).
I spent 3 yrs working in Hackettstown years ago. Almost moved up there. But the ocean called more strongly.1
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