LOWER TDEE THAN PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN OVERWEIGHT
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Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
I see. I have very different experience and that is why I posed the question like that. I was extremely miserable when I gained 35lbs over 12 months and became overweight for the first time in my life (I'm 38). It lasted only 2 years but I've never been more miserable.0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
I see. I have very different experience and that is why I posed the question like that. I was extremely miserable when I gained 35lbs over 12 months and became overweight for the first time in my life (I'm 38). It lasted only 2 years but I've never been more miserable.
I get what you mean! I am more muscular and my waist is smaller while my legs and but are bigger. My stomach has always been semi flat, but I gained 25 pounds this past year, and lost all feelings of sexiness!! lol I was on the line before, but now I am over that line IMO. Although I am lucky my body type does make me look more proportionate. I think some of it is mental and fears of success. I feel hungry all the time...0 -
And before anyeone says anything. I am eating plenty! I am eating what I am supposed to as well as plenty of proteins, whole grains, fruits and vegetables.0
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Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there.
). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!10 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.7 -
kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.
Tomorrow: Better. You've got this, if you want it. :flowerforyou:2 -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30496740/?fbclid=IwAR0eljLZ5itnfyBBFmsOpE39d313ki4tr8gZ-Lh_yN9lm9nwtnNSg1AFMXM
Recent study....
Also, the biggest slow down is muscle efficiency and NEAT. Most likely why people who maintain better are far more active in general. There is also an increased drive to eat. Hungrier and more food focused.1 -
kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.
If you are premenstrual and that is contributing to your bad day, many women eat at maintenance for a few days premenstrually as our metabolisms rev up at that time and we need the extra calories.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10359984/women-menstrual-cycle-weight-and-fitness-matters/p10 -
One of the most helpful processes I investigated during this process is the difference between hunger and appetite. Hunger being the physiological need for food. Appetite being the desire for food. Taking the time to review these feelings in myself likely had more to do with my long term success than any other single aspect.
Counting calories and logging helped this as this created an objective truth I could compare against my subjective awareness. Say at 11:00 I feel hungry - I now had a diary to check when I ate last, how many calories this was and how many calories I have remaining the rest of the day. Then to question, should I be hungry or is this more of a habitual feeding time? So I would drink a glass of water and wait 30 mins or so and re-evaluate. This process took about a year and had multiple successes and failures, but each event was an opportunity in learning.4 -
One of the most helpful processes I investigated during this process is the difference between hunger and appetite. Hunger being the physiological need for food. Appetite being the desire for food. Taking the time to review these feelings in myself likely had more to do with my long term success than any other single aspect.
Counting calories and logging helped this as this created an objective truth I could compare against my subjective awareness. Say at 11:00 I feel hungry - I now had a diary to check when I ate last, how many calories this was and how many calories I have remaining the rest of the day. Then to question, should I be hungry or is this more of a habitual feeding time? So I would drink a glass of water and wait 30 mins or so and re-evaluate. This process took about a year and had multiple successes and failures, but each event was an opportunity in learning.
Well I was aggressive. Way to aggressive and have hunger and satiety issues. I am actually really lean now. I believe mine is not so much the weight loss as my leanness. Sub 10% from 50+.1 -
kristinstephenson86 wrote: »I am just now reading ALL THESE!! Thanks for the response. And yes, I am referring to studies that show that people who have never lost weight have a higher BMR than someone who has lost weight at the same size. Meaning those that have lost weight are hungrier, but must eat less than if they were naturally that size. I have read this over and over in scientific studies. Don't go by just opinion, I would suggest reading the studies to educate yourself at least on what some doctors believe about weight loss.
A drop in BMR like that would likely be the result of loss of muscle mass while dieting. Many people are very aggressive with weight loss...aggressive weight loss strategies exacerbate muscle loss. A modest calorie deficit with slower weight loss over time combined with adequate protein and resistance training mitigates muscle loss to a significant extent while dieting.
I lost 40 Lbs (220-180) and I have maintained that for over 5.5 years. I don't know that my BMR is any less than any other guy who was just 180 Lbs, but if it is, I'd think it marginally so. I maintain typically around 3,000 calories give or take which seems just fine for a desk jockey like myself.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »I am just now reading ALL THESE!! Thanks for the response. And yes, I am referring to studies that show that people who have never lost weight have a higher BMR than someone who has lost weight at the same size. Meaning those that have lost weight are hungrier, but must eat less than if they were naturally that size. I have read this over and over in scientific studies. Don't go by just opinion, I would suggest reading the studies to educate yourself at least on what some doctors believe about weight loss.
A drop in BMR like that would likely be the result of loss of muscle mass while dieting. Many people are very aggressive with weight loss...aggressive weight loss strategies exacerbate muscle loss. A modest calorie deficit with slower weight loss over time combined with adequate protein and resistance training mitigates muscle loss to a significant extent while dieting.
I lost 40 Lbs (220-180) and I have maintained that for over 5.5 years. I don't know that my BMR is any less than any other guy who was just 180 Lbs, but if it is, I'd think it marginally so. I maintain typically around 3,000 calories give or take which seems just fine for a desk jockey like myself.
I maintain on about 3400-3600. 15000 steps a day and spend alot of time on feet with 4 lifting days. Actually goes as high as 3800 some days. I guess I should not complain. Still one of my heroes Wolf. Is it ok to have a non sexual man crush on you?☺0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.
If you are premenstrual and that is contributing to your bad day, many women eat at maintenance for a few days premenstrually as our metabolisms rev up at that time and we need the extra calories.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10359984/women-menstrual-cycle-weight-and-fitness-matters/p1
I'm only 32!
0 -
kristinstephenson86 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.
If you are premenstrual and that is contributing to your bad day, many women eat at maintenance for a few days premenstrually as our metabolisms rev up at that time and we need the extra calories.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10359984/women-menstrual-cycle-weight-and-fitness-matters/p1
I'm only 32!
Premenstrual, as in your period is due soon. PMS 1 -
kristinstephenson86 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »Thanks everyone! And yes I mean BMR. And I ask because it's unmotivating thinking your body is going to make you miserable the whole way. Makes you want to give up.
More miserable than staying fat?
I wasn't miserable being fat. Really wasn't. Still did some stuff (nowhere near what I do now) and was okay with it. Maybe just plain old ignorance.
And while I'm more active, doesn't make me that much happier. Other things that sucked before still suck now. Just I can run away from them now.
Possibly not helpful in context, TW, even if true. Maybe curmudge elsewhere? :flowerforyou:
I was obese (just a couple of BMI points over the line, to be sure) for several decades. I wasn't miserable. In the final (!) decade of obesity, I was even very active - competitively, even (by which I mean "competing", not "beating all comers"). I liked my body fine (it could do fun stuff, yay!), and was happy.
Still, being a healthy weight is So. Much. Better. I would never have predicted! My joints trouble me much, much less (I'm old-ish, have OA & various "issues") - greatly reduced frequency and severity of pain/discomfort. My health markers (cholesterol, BP, etc.) went from bad to stellar, which I hope will correlate with improved future health and longevity. My balance is better, my flexibility is better . . . just from the weight loss, not new activity. Both should help me avoid the falls that tend to plague us li'l ol' ladies. (Not calling you a l.o.l., TW, so don't go there. ). I just have a higher overall sense of well-being (less inflammation, maybe? dunno). So worth it!
OP, here's the thing. The research studies show a range of responses, in terms of TDEE (worse if extreme weight loss, worse if no exercise, generally; but still a range). People report a range of subjective experiences with hunger and appetite.
I understand 100% why this potential TDEE reduction issue is a concern to you. But you are not a research study, with a mean response and a standard deviation. You are an N=1 individual. Your experience will be your experience, and you won't know the ending TDEE result until you lose the weight. Lose the weight, and find out your results.
If TDEE depression were universal, I hate to think how ridiculously high my starting TDEE must have been to land me here, because my (experience-determined, 3rd year of maintenance) TDEE lands several hundred calories a day above what calculators say. This is an uncommon experience (very uncommon, in fact), but it's my N=1, and that's the only thing that matters to me, as a practical matter. (Most people land close to their estimated TDEE, from what I see in the forums.) BTW: While obese, I'd thought I had a "slow metabolism" because I was fat despite a very high activity level. That was self-deluding nonsense. I just ate too much. .
So, granny sez: Stop catastrophizing about what might happen (based on some studies that have had serious scientific critique), think about what studies with varied contrasting results might be telling you (listen to what Mr. Heybales said above, for one - the very pithy and insightful link more than the catchy video). Take steps that maximize your odds of a good outcome. That's how to use the studies, as a tool to find the best possible strategies (even in the face of concerns), not as an excuse to quit before you start.
Find what your N=1 is. It may be better than you think.
Regardless of actually body chemistry and physiological resonses, you can talk yourself into "I'm doomed to always be desperately hungry". Don't do that. Instead of focusing on the doom part, focus on understanding what it takes to make you, personally, feel full and happy. Vary your macronutrient ratios (within a healthy range). Vary your eating times/frequencies. Experiment with individual foods. Try out things people suggest, but don't fall for orthodoxies ("carbs make everyone hungry" (they don't), "you must eat clean and plant-based" (people needn't, universally)). You are N=1. You just need to figure out you.
Look at your food diary on days when you're more hungry, or less hungry. Figure out why: Form a hypothesis, test it by experimenting. It can be food choices or timing, but it can also be boredom, habit, stress, hydration, emotion, inadequate sleep, the effect of exercise (perhaps a particular exercise, perhaps even the day before), hormones, social cues, habitual triggers, and more. Look for patterns. Address the causes. Test improvement strategies. Assess the results. Take control, don't fall for the (truly miserable) life-mode of "I can't".
With respect to hunger, don't spend your energy on "oh, I feel terrible, it's so hard!". Focus your energy on "what can I do to be as satisfied as possible, as often as possible". It's a better use of your time and energy.
Might you find out, after months of sincere focus, that you truly have an irremediable problem with cravings and hunger, no matter what you do? Sure, it's possible. It's just not very darned likely. (There may be a gene for that; people with the gene tend to rapidly become morbidly obese. You aren't. You're probably genetically normal, and this is a problem you can solve . . . if you want to.)
Granny rant over.
Best wishes for success - you can succeed!
This kind of made me teary eyed. Thank you. Not a good day today.
If you are premenstrual and that is contributing to your bad day, many women eat at maintenance for a few days premenstrually as our metabolisms rev up at that time and we need the extra calories.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10359984/women-menstrual-cycle-weight-and-fitness-matters/p1
I'm only 32!
"Premenstrual" is the name for the days before you're expecting your period. It's a normal part of each month for people who are having a period. You may be thinking of "premenopausal," which happens later in life.1 -
psychod787 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »kristinstephenson86 wrote: »I am just now reading ALL THESE!! Thanks for the response. And yes, I am referring to studies that show that people who have never lost weight have a higher BMR than someone who has lost weight at the same size. Meaning those that have lost weight are hungrier, but must eat less than if they were naturally that size. I have read this over and over in scientific studies. Don't go by just opinion, I would suggest reading the studies to educate yourself at least on what some doctors believe about weight loss.
A drop in BMR like that would likely be the result of loss of muscle mass while dieting. Many people are very aggressive with weight loss...aggressive weight loss strategies exacerbate muscle loss. A modest calorie deficit with slower weight loss over time combined with adequate protein and resistance training mitigates muscle loss to a significant extent while dieting.
I lost 40 Lbs (220-180) and I have maintained that for over 5.5 years. I don't know that my BMR is any less than any other guy who was just 180 Lbs, but if it is, I'd think it marginally so. I maintain typically around 3,000 calories give or take which seems just fine for a desk jockey like myself.
I maintain on about 3400-3600. 15000 steps a day and spend alot of time on feet with 4 lifting days. Actually goes as high as 3800 some days. I guess I should not complain. Still one of my heroes Wolf. Is it ok to have a non sexual man crush on you?☺
I'm lucky if I get 6-8K steps. I've had a very sedentary day today...only 2,500 and it's 3PM. I've been at home all day with a sick kid so we've just been watching movies and playing around on the internet.3 -
I am at work and quickly read over; I work in health care!! I don't know why I saw menopausal. Mostly likely revealing a fear of mine! lol5
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