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Ignoring the Industry

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  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    If this is morphing into a "how I found MFP" thread...

    Was digging my grave (had drainage issues and needed to dig our my weeping tile) and just decided I was working too hard to not see it so bought a cheap Garmin watch. Set it up on Garmin Connect and they had this linky thing to some funny website to track what I ate vs what my activity was. After a couple of weeks I click on it and now am down 120-130 lbs.

    Honestly, being able to put numbers to the whole thing help me tremendously.
  • amy19355
    amy19355 Posts: 805 Member
    The companies that promote a quick fix weight loss program are counting on repeat business. Consumers of product = ongoing revenue stream.

    Right up there with "the secret" to [whatever], fitness tactics are neither magic or secret.

  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Cassandraw3 wrote: »
    garystrickland357 wrote: »
    I’ve been around MFP now for a while (not as long as some) and have successfully lost over 75 pounds. Now I’m adjusting to maintenance. Here’s what I want to debate - how you feel about people here having to not only overcome personal dysfunction concerning weight loss but also all the bad information out there about the “best way” to lose weight.

    To explain - I know I came here because I needed a tool to help me lose weight. I was unsuccessful losing weight intuitively. My wife of 35 years has always been able to manage her weight. I always struggled. Once I started seriously using MFP my journey became manageable. I have a realistic calorie budget and I track calories to stay within that budget. Simple - but not easy.

    I think what makes it hard for so many though is we here at MFP often have to convince folks to ignore all the *kitten* they read and hear. The weight loss industry is worth $66 Billion dollars according to a quick Google search. I also did a quick Google search using the key words “how to lose weight”. I assume that many folks that decide one day they want to regain control of their life might do the same. The first two pages of links all contained fundamentally flawed information (in my opinion). Almost none of the sites explained the need for a calorie deficit in order to lose weight. Almost all had something to sell.

    So this is the situation I see here over and over. Folks come here because they want to lose weight. I believe they are sincere. The issue however is that most have a dysfunctional relationship with food or they wouldn’t be here. They also have a head full of bad information from what they have read or what they have been told. They have a lot to “unlearn.” Some folks here listen, change their thinking and succeed in reaching their goals. Others refuse to unlearn what they think to be true - they argue with the very people they asked to help them - because they can’t let go of the bad information put out there by the weight loss industry.

    What do you think?

    I think that is true of a lot of things in life. Anything in the media is not looking to help people; it is about making a profit. Big Business makes the commercials and ads. They do not make money telling people to eat let. Current society wants a quick fix and instant gratification and companies see that. Some people are open minded enough to listen to multiple sides of a story and make an educated decision. Some people are smart enough to know to back hearsay with science and facts. Others will only listen to what they want to hear and take that and run. Big Pharma doesn't making money fixing people, they make money treating symptoms.

    If drug companies only make money from treating symptoms, how do you account for the fact that there are cures out there and available for sale? I've been "fixed" by drugs, I know people who have been "fixed" by drugs. Not everything is treating symptoms.

    FYI,

    Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: 'Is curing patients a sustainable business model?'

    Goldman Sachs analysts attempted to address a touchy subject for biotech companies, especially those involved in the pioneering "gene therapy" treatment: cures could be bad for business in the long run.

    "Is curing patients a sustainable business model?" analysts ask in an April 10 report entitled "The Genome Revolution."

    "The potential to deliver 'one shot cures' is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies," analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. "While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow."

    Richter cited Gilead Sciences' treatments for hepatitis C, which achieved cure rates of more than 90 percent. The company's U.S. sales for these hepatitis C treatments peaked at $12.5 billion in 2015, but have been falling ever since. Goldman estimates the U.S. sales for these treatments will be less than $4 billion this year, according to a table in the report.

    "GILD is a case in point, where the success of its hepatitis C franchise has gradually exhausted the available pool of treatable patients," the analyst wrote. "In the case of infectious diseases such as hepatitis C, curing existing patients also decreases the number of carriers able to transmit the virus to new patients, thus the incident pool also declines … Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise."

    The analyst didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

    The report suggested three potential solutions for biotech firms:

    "Solution 1: Address large markets: Hemophilia is a $9-10bn WW market (hemophilia A, B), growing at ~6-7% annually."

    "Solution 2: Address disorders with high incidence: Spinal muscular atrophy (SMA) affects the cells (neurons) in the spinal cord, impacting the ability to walk, eat, or breathe."

    "Solution 3: Constant innovation and portfolio expansion: There are hundreds of inherited retinal diseases (genetics forms of blindness) … Pace of innovation will also play a role as future programs can offset the declining revenue trajectory of prior assets."
  • fishgutzy
    fishgutzy Posts: 2,807 Member
    Saw a bakery with the name "Lovin' from the Oven."
    We use terms like "comfort foods."
    Breaking that emotional connection to food is probably the hardest part.
    It is engrained from childhood.
    Marketing plays on this too.
    Seeing food only as neutral fuel for life doesn't help sell Junk food. :D:D
  • neugebauer52
    neugebauer52 Posts: 1,120 Member
    Obesity and the morbid variety have at times a physical AND a psychological reason behind the weight problem. To handle both at the same time is a mammoth - even impossible - task and according to the individual's situation a very specific support team and long term plan is needed.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    NorthCascades wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Cassandraw3 wrote: »
    garystrickland357 wrote: »
    I’ve been around MFP now for a while (not as long as some) and have successfully lost over 75 pounds. Now I’m adjusting to maintenance. Here’s what I want to debate - how you feel about people here having to not only overcome personal dysfunction concerning weight loss but also all the bad information out there about the “best way” to lose weight.

    To explain - I know I came here because I needed a tool to help me lose weight. I was unsuccessful losing weight intuitively. My wife of 35 years has always been able to manage her weight. I always struggled. Once I started seriously using MFP my journey became manageable. I have a realistic calorie budget and I track calories to stay within that budget. Simple - but not easy.

    I think what makes it hard for so many though is we here at MFP often have to convince folks to ignore all the *kitten* they read and hear. The weight loss industry is worth $66 Billion dollars according to a quick Google search. I also did a quick Google search using the key words “how to lose weight”. I assume that many folks that decide one day they want to regain control of their life might do the same. The first two pages of links all contained fundamentally flawed information (in my opinion). Almost none of the sites explained the need for a calorie deficit in order to lose weight. Almost all had something to sell.

    So this is the situation I see here over and over. Folks come here because they want to lose weight. I believe they are sincere. The issue however is that most have a dysfunctional relationship with food or they wouldn’t be here. They also have a head full of bad information from what they have read or what they have been told. They have a lot to “unlearn.” Some folks here listen, change their thinking and succeed in reaching their goals. Others refuse to unlearn what they think to be true - they argue with the very people they asked to help them - because they can’t let go of the bad information put out there by the weight loss industry.

    What do you think?

    I think that is true of a lot of things in life. Anything in the media is not looking to help people; it is about making a profit. Big Business makes the commercials and ads. They do not make money telling people to eat let. Current society wants a quick fix and instant gratification and companies see that. Some people are open minded enough to listen to multiple sides of a story and make an educated decision. Some people are smart enough to know to back hearsay with science and facts. Others will only listen to what they want to hear and take that and run. Big Pharma doesn't making money fixing people, they make money treating symptoms.

    If drug companies only make money from treating symptoms, how do you account for the fact that there are cures out there and available for sale? I've been "fixed" by drugs, I know people who have been "fixed" by drugs. Not everything is treating symptoms.

    FYI,

    Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: 'Is curing patients a sustainable business model?'

    Goldman Sachs analysts attempted to address a touchy subject for biotech companies, especially those involved in the pioneering "gene therapy" treatment: cures could be bad for business in the long run.

    "Is curing patients a sustainable business model?" analysts ask in an April 10 report entitled "The Genome Revolution."

    "The potential to deliver 'one shot cures' is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies," analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. "While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow."

    Richter cited Gilead Sciences' treatments for hepatitis C, which achieved cure rates of more than 90 percent. The company's U.S. sales for these hepatitis C treatments peaked at $12.5 billion in 2015, but have been falling ever since. Goldman estimates the U.S. sales for these treatments will be less than $4 billion this year, according to a table in the report.

    "GILD is a case in point, where the success of its hepatitis C franchise has gradually exhausted the available pool of treatable patients," the analyst wrote. "In the case of infectious diseases such as hepatitis C, curing existing patients also decreases the number of carriers able to transmit the virus to new patients, thus the incident pool also declines … Where an incident pool remains stable (eg, in cancer) the potential for a cure poses less risk to the sustainability of a franchise."

    The analyst didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

    The report suggested three potential solutions for biotech firms:

    "Solution 1: Address large markets: Hemophilia is a $9-10bn WW market (hemophilia A, B), growing at ~6-7% annually."

    "Solution 2: Address disorders with high incidence: Spinal muscular atrophy (SMA) affects the cells (neurons) in the spinal cord, impacting the ability to walk, eat, or breathe."

    "Solution 3: Constant innovation and portfolio expansion: There are hundreds of inherited retinal diseases (genetics forms of blindness) … Pace of innovation will also play a role as future programs can offset the declining revenue trajectory of prior assets."

    This is one of the many problems facing the pharmaceutical/medical device industry. Along with this is the regulatory cost of bringing a drug to market. Currently estimated at ~2.7B USD.

    For a real life example my wife isolated a monoclonal antibody (MCA) with a high affinity for cancer cells identified in many types of pancreatic cancer. The issue is simply the return on investment is not there, so despite there being a strong chance for a helpful product, the regulatory process proving the reward justifies the risk is too burdensome.
  • mburgess458
    mburgess458 Posts: 480 Member
    pinuplove wrote: »
    I saw my nurse practitioner this morning and she commented on the 21 pounds I'd lost since my last visit, asking if it was on purpose (lolz at that :lol: ). When I answered yes, she asked what I was doing and I said calorie counting with MFP. Turns out that's what she recommends to her patients. She said most people claim they are barely eating anything and usually come back amazed at how much they were actually consuming if they take her advice. No surprise there.

    I wound up here looking for a (free) alternative to WW online, which I'd used in the past with so-so success. That was many years ago. Honestly, I don't remember if someone suggested it to me or if I just stumbled in. The second, I think.

    As @tbright1965 mentioned, we humans in general are always looking for the easy button. We have cars to drive, machines to wash our dishes, and computers to calculate for us due in part to this propensity. Unfortunately, there's no such substitute for losing and maintaining weight.

    The "was your weight loss on purpose" question is VERY important for a doctor or nurse practitioner to ask. Weight loss when you're not trying to lose weight is a big red flag for many problems like cancer.
  • deannalfisher
    deannalfisher Posts: 5,600 Member
    mburgess458 wrote: »
    pinuplove wrote: »
    I saw my nurse practitioner this morning and she commented on the 21 pounds I'd lost since my last visit, asking if it was on purpose (lolz at that :lol: ). When I answered yes, she asked what I was doing and I said calorie counting with MFP. Turns out that's what she recommends to her patients. She said most people claim they are barely eating anything and usually come back amazed at how much they were actually consuming if they take her advice. No surprise there.

    I wound up here looking for a (free) alternative to WW online, which I'd used in the past with so-so success. That was many years ago. Honestly, I don't remember if someone suggested it to me or if I just stumbled in. The second, I think.

    As @tbright1965 mentioned, we humans in general are always looking for the easy button. We have cars to drive, machines to wash our dishes, and computers to calculate for us due in part to this propensity. Unfortunately, there's no such substitute for losing and maintaining weight.

    The "was your weight loss on purpose" question is VERY important for a doctor or nurse practitioner to ask. Weight loss when you're not trying to lose weight is a big red flag for many problems like cancer.

    when i do my semi-annual screening for military PT test - we have to answer the quesiton of greater than 10lbs weight loss since last paperwork and intentional or not
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