Keto didn't work
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What is up with this thread? Be in a calorie deficit and you'll lose weight. Regardless those calories eaten are a carb, a protein, or a fat. Keep it basic.
As someone who has done multiple different diets over the past 25+ years ... everything from low fat to Weight Watchers to The Belly Fat Cure to (now) Keto. While the "calorie deficit" advice is ultimately what results in weight loss, the "basics" didn't do. Keto has been the easiest for me to maintain a calorie deficit very regularly; and it's actually changed my body shape better than any other diet; seemingly targeting where my fat likes to gather.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Keto is the solution for everyone - and I'm not some sort of "keto nazi" - and it is not a "magic wand"; but actually being satisfied with eating less seems to be what has made Keto more sustainable for me, where "keeping it basic" was difficult.
OP said that keto didn't work, but some (myself included) who were giving additional advice read the post as trying to understand keto better.15 -
tramaine_21 wrote: »Remember, it's get healthy to lose weight NOT lose weight to get healthy. Keto repairs the body first and then you may see results later. Your body be a little more damaged than you think i.e, liver, metabolism, etc... Just ride the wave and keep at it. Also, are you intermittent fasting? Keto and 'IF' go hand and hand. Maybe you're doing keto but you're snacking or eating too much fat. Just a thought.
This confuses me. Most people I know who like keto do so because they lost weight faster to start out. And plenty of people do keto but not IF, or do IF and not keto.
And this is probably semantics, but losing weight is often the key to getting healthy. You don't have to "get healthy" first. I'm not even going to get into keto "healing the body". But if someone is doing keto and not losing weight, it's because they're still eating too much.
The idea behind "getting healthy to lose weight" is that many times there is something unhealthy that is causing excess weight: stress, insulin resistance, thyroid disease, etc. I'm sure you understand that there are those who may be at a "healthy weight" who also are not healthy. Certain types of foods (for example, lots of processed foods) can cause problems in the body, and impact metabolism and how your body digests and uses the food ingested. "Healthy Keto" aims to work on those other aspects that may be impacting one's weight and shape - to help the body appropriately metabolise the foods consumed. Otherwise summed up in "get healthy to lose weight".24 -
squigglylot wrote: »tramaine_21 wrote: »Remember, it's get healthy to lose weight NOT lose weight to get healthy. Keto repairs the body first and then you may see results later. Your body be a little more damaged than you think i.e, liver, metabolism, etc... Just ride the wave and keep at it. Also, are you intermittent fasting? Keto and 'IF' go hand and hand. Maybe you're doing keto but you're snacking or eating too much fat. Just a thought.
This confuses me. Most people I know who like keto do so because they lost weight faster to start out. And plenty of people do keto but not IF, or do IF and not keto.
And this is probably semantics, but losing weight is often the key to getting healthy. You don't have to "get healthy" first. I'm not even going to get into keto "healing the body". But if someone is doing keto and not losing weight, it's because they're still eating too much.
The idea behind "getting healthy to lose weight" is that many times there is something unhealthy that is causing excess weight: stress, insulin resistance, thyroid disease, etc. I'm sure you understand that there are those who may be at a "healthy weight" who also are not healthy. Certain types of foods (for example, lots of processed foods) can cause problems in the body, and impact metabolism and how your body digests and uses the food ingested. "Healthy Keto" aims to work on those other aspects that may be impacting one's weight and shape - to help the body appropriately metabolise the foods consumed. Otherwise summed up in "get healthy to lose weight".
Yes, people can be a healthy weight but be unhealthy. People can also be overweight and have no other health concerns that will not be solved by simply losing weight. Keto does not heal stress or thyroid problems. Thyroid problems need to be resolved through appropriate medical treatment, then they will be able to lose weight just like anyone else. I honestly don't know enough about IR to address that confidently.
I'd love to see any peer reviewed research you're aware of showing that processed food (whatever your definition of that is) or conversely a keto diet affect metabolism in any measurable way. I've never seen any.
From what I have seen, anyone who loses weight by eating a calorie appropriate diet where they are paying attention to eating satiating foods, regardless of macro distribution or other diet variables, see the same health advantages.13 -
Why are you on Keto? If it's just to lose weight, you don't need it...just monitor CICO and keep a net deficit. Keto works really great from some people to deal with blood sugar spikes, inflammation, pain, etc. I do a low carb but not Keto (approx 20-30 carb, 50-60 fat, 20 protein), and find I feel more satiated longer on my lower carbs days.5
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squigglylot wrote: »tramaine_21 wrote: »Remember, it's get healthy to lose weight NOT lose weight to get healthy. Keto repairs the body first and then you may see results later. Your body be a little more damaged than you think i.e, liver, metabolism, etc... Just ride the wave and keep at it. Also, are you intermittent fasting? Keto and 'IF' go hand and hand. Maybe you're doing keto but you're snacking or eating too much fat. Just a thought.
This confuses me. Most people I know who like keto do so because they lost weight faster to start out. And plenty of people do keto but not IF, or do IF and not keto.
And this is probably semantics, but losing weight is often the key to getting healthy. You don't have to "get healthy" first. I'm not even going to get into keto "healing the body". But if someone is doing keto and not losing weight, it's because they're still eating too much.
The idea behind "getting healthy to lose weight" is that many times there is something unhealthy that is causing excess weight: stress, insulin resistance, thyroid disease, etc. I'm sure you understand that there are those who may be at a "healthy weight" who also are not healthy. Certain types of foods (for example, lots of processed foods) can cause problems in the body, and impact metabolism and how your body digests and uses the food ingested. "Healthy Keto" aims to work on those other aspects that may be impacting one's weight and shape - to help the body appropriately metabolise the foods consumed. Otherwise summed up in "get healthy to lose weight".
I second wanting to know how processed foods has an impact on metabolism and causes problems in the body. you dont need keto to properly metabolise foods. many can reverse a lot of those health issues you mentioned above with weight loss alone. as for things causing thyroid disease you do realize that the body someimes doesnt work like it should and many times its due to a gene defect or other issue. thryoid problems can also cause many people to be underweight its called hyperthyroidism. I did keto and it nearly killed me no joke.
I dont do keto I have to do a low fat diet due to a health issue. I lost weight,and improved my health markers and I eat processed foods,carbs(lots of carbs) etc. hasnt impacted my health or digestion in anyway. processed foods didnt impact my metabolism in any way but due to a GENE defect I have a metabolic disorder so my diet doesnt impact that in any way. I have tried many ways of eating and one was not any better than the other when it came to weight loss ,fat loss or anything else. keto was the only way of eating that nearly did me in and caused my health markers and my health issues progressively get worse the longer I did it. once I stopped they started to improve and have had none of those issues since2 -
I find it easy to eat an incredible amount of calories and feel like crap while I was on keto. Didn't work for me either. I find it much easier to do a small caloric deficit over time making small tweeks versus making drastic changes to my diet like cutting out a macronutrient.
exactly this. I havent done full keto but when i have gone lower carb I have felt like utter *kitten*. And too much fat makes me feel nauseous. And i can't find food with enough fat in it that will keep me full (avocado is a no for me) - drinking a spoon of olive oil for 120 calories will not even touch the sides whereas if I ate a piece of bread for 120 calories i'd be OK!4 -
Losing weight is NOT a one-size-fits-all proposition. Then again, one-size-fits-all usually isn't, either! May I suggest a visit to a nutritionist and asking them for help?5
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I've had major success with a Protein focused Keto plan to eliminate blood sugar issues and am off of all pills and dropped a lot of weight with it. The first few days is nothing but water weight for some folks and should be ignored regardless because that can come and go. Personally, I never had the water weight drop but stuck to it and am glad I did.
I'm doing the same thing and my autoimmune inflammation and migraines have both been greatly reduced. I do still have widespread pain and that's just something I'll have to live with, but it's nice to not have inflamed joints and near constant migraines even on meds.
It was my doctor who suggested I try a keto/low carb diet to see if it would help as I was miserable and housebound about 90% of the time.
I was one of those who did lose a ton of water weight the first couple of weeks. At least twenty pounds as I had a lot of swelling in both legs.
The last month or so I have been experimenting with carb levels a bit, but even at Thanksgiving when I had a bit over 40 net carbs I still managed to lose nearly 2 pounds that week. However, I've also had three cheat days - Halloween, to try a new Asian place, and to have a McRib - and all three times the next couple of days my joints were red, swollen, and I was practically bedridden again.
This way of eating works for me, but I totally understand that it's not a one size fits all thing.5 -
Apparently, some of you haven't heard of Dr Eric Berg...Youtube. You're welcome!29
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tramaine_21 wrote: »Apparently, some of you haven't heard of Dr Eric Berg...Youtube. You're welcome!
This Eric Berg? The chiropractor who was censured and fined by his state's medical board for unethical and illegal practices?: https://www.casewatch.net/board/chiro/berg.shtml33 -
Keto does not heal stress or thyroid problems. Thyroid problems need to be resolved through appropriate medical treatment, then they will be able to lose weight just like anyone else. I honestly don't know enough about IR to address that confidently.
For clarification, I didn't say that Keto solved these issues, especially not thyroid. In explaining the thinking behind "get healthy to lose weight", I was simply providing some examples of unhealthy conditions that people may have that prevent them from losing weight, even with caloric deficits. But, I will say that "eating healthy" can improve other aspects of people's health. Hopefully that is obvious.I'd love to see any peer reviewed research you're aware of showing that processed food (whatever your definition of that is) or conversely a keto diet affect metabolism in any measurable way. I've never seen any.
From what I have seen, anyone who loses weight by eating a calorie appropriate diet where they are paying attention to eating satiating foods, regardless of macro distribution or other diet variables, see the same health advantages.
I really prefer not to get into a "study vs study" debate. I don't find such discussions productive. I can only speak from my own experiences and the experiences of those I know personally.
As for highly processed foods, while food composition is not the culprit in the obesity epidemic in the United States in particular, it has been identified as a contributing factor in terms of the "quality of the food supply":https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5769871/
And, I'd agree with the many factors cited here: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight12 -
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tramaine_21 wrote: »Apparently, some of you haven't heard of Dr Eric Berg...Youtube. You're welcome!
Most of us have and that is why I know he's a quack16 -
squigglylot wrote: »Keto does not heal stress or thyroid problems. Thyroid problems need to be resolved through appropriate medical treatment, then they will be able to lose weight just like anyone else. I honestly don't know enough about IR to address that confidently.
For clarification, I didn't say that Keto solved these issues, especially not thyroid. In explaining the thinking behind "get healthy to lose weight", I was simply providing some examples of unhealthy conditions that people may have that prevent them from losing weight, even with caloric deficits. But, I will say that "eating healthy" can improve other aspects of people's health. Hopefully that is obvious.I'd love to see any peer reviewed research you're aware of showing that processed food (whatever your definition of that is) or conversely a keto diet affect metabolism in any measurable way. I've never seen any.
From what I have seen, anyone who loses weight by eating a calorie appropriate diet where they are paying attention to eating satiating foods, regardless of macro distribution or other diet variables, see the same health advantages.
I really prefer not to get into a "study vs study" debate. I don't find such discussions productive. I can only speak from my own experiences and the experiences of those I know personally.
As for highly processed foods, while food composition is not the culprit in the obesity epidemic in the United States in particular, it has been identified as a contributing factor in terms of the "quality of the food supply":https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5769871/
And, I'd agree with the many factors cited here: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-become-overweight
My reading of your first link is that changes to the "quality of the food supply" have led to increased consumption: "Such foods contain relatively high amounts of salt, sugar, fat, and flavor additives and are engineered to have supernormal appetitive properties thereby driving increased consumption. Ubiquitous and continuous access to food also influenced normative eating behaviors, such that more people snack between meals, eat in restaurants, and spend less time preparing meals at home. These factors likely increased calorie intake and thereby caused obesity." In other words - it's the calories.
The Harvard Health link is a blog post, and to me it is giving various reasons why people eat too much and move too little, so I'm not sure how that applies.
Anyway, it's fine if you don't want to back up what you said. But the idea that eating processed foods can harm your metabolism and eating keto can heal your metabolism is not scientifically accepted info. The science of metabolism is pretty well established as far as I know, and that's not part of it.
And none of this has anything to do with keto. Whether processed foods are harmful or not, you can eat a perfectly healthy nutritious calorie appropriate diet with any macro distribution and lose weight just fine. Plenty of folks here have gotten off insulin, improved BP and cholesterol levels, controlled cravings and appetite, and gotten generally healthier eating balanced macros and losing weight. Unfortunately, OP never came back with further details, so we can't tell if they were tracking calories, if they have any health conditions, or if they just weren't being patient enough. Maybe they will and we can clear this up :drinker:8 -
I have been on keto for about 2 months. It is to be thought of in the long term. I dropped water, I figured, at first, about 6 lbs. I then stayed where I was for a long time weight wise. I occasionally would drop a lb. or so but usually fluctuated within a four lb. range. I have lost 16 lbs. Now I lose a lb. a week or sometimes in less than a week. Keto is slow, for me at least. There is a lot of confusion and poor info out there which does not help. But the idea of eating the good fats, not processed foods, but real foods, is the key here. This is the first diet I find I will sustain in my 45 years of yo yo dieting. I am 65 years old, and have unsuccessfully dieted for those 45 years. I have tried everything, Weight watchers being the most successful. But no diet has curbed or addressed the constant hunger, nor has any Dr. or nutritionist. Thus the yo yo dieting. This diet is not easy. I forget to add that extra good fat sometimes to maintain that ratio of fat to protein. My carbs are fine at 20 grams and doable. I have laughed after supper realizing I needed to eat more fat. The fat bomb or bullet proof coffee fixes that for me. Some recipes are better than other and they are better than the early keto ones. I am still learning. I also realize that on keto when you have been on it, you must keto cycle at some point to maintain the bacteria in your gut. Maybe that is one reason some people have problems. Switching then to slightly higher carbs and/or slowly adding some healthy food during the recycle period gives me time to see what my body can handle comfortably without weight gain or hunger. I plan to follow Weight Watcher but watch my carbs at that time. While I am fairly strict on most days, I had the occasional spoon of stuffing, or potato at Thanksgiving for example and had no problem. I can tell when I am full, or if my body is getting the signal of eat when I do not need to. But the best is the no hunger, no insanity not putting food in my mouth and "trying to be good". GONE!! I almost gave up, but glad I did not. You can not really appreciate this diet unless you give it time. (certainly not just a couple days or weeks.)
My blood sugar is down, my arthritis better, my cholesterol and triglycerides dropped like 100 points in 2 months.
My good cholesterol has increased about 25 points which never happened on any other diet. The part about addressing inflammation seems true, for me. For me this is sustainable and working. I know this is long, but wanted to share. Of course, no diet or lifestyle change will work if you do not or can not follow it. The important thing is to find one and one that fits you with healthy positive changes.6 -
tramaine_21 wrote: »Apparently, some of you haven't heard of Dr Eric Berg...Youtube. You're welcome!
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I've had major success with a Protein focused Keto plan to eliminate blood sugar issues and am off of all pills and dropped a lot of weight with it.
Keto will likely help you feel fuller faster and should help reduce the calories over time which will help with weight loss. Snowball effect..
I don't have anything against keto. It's a WOE that helps many people achieve their goals, and that's great. But most people can improve their health conditions and get off meds through weight loss alone, regardless of the WOE used to achieve it. And it's incorrect to say that keto is a satisfying way of eating for all people.10 -
SchrodingersOtherCat wrote: »Keto is just another means to keep in calorific deficit. This has been proved by metabolic ward studies where everything is completely monitored including all calories, sleep & exercise. They show that there is no long term difference between keto & any other calorie deficit system regards weight loss. People do usually have a larger loss in the 1st few weeks but it's water. If it's not working for you then maybe try a different system. Plain calorie counting works fine.
Except that you forget the human aspect: None of us here are in a metabolic ward having our meals handed to us and controlled by someone else. Keto keeps you full and reduces hunger hormones over the long term. Calorie restriction becomes far easier. But you have to eat enough dietary fat to feel satiated, too. For me, I can eat the same number of calories, like 400-500 calories per meal, but I have to hit 70% fat to get the benefit of long lasting saiety. While it is the calorie restriction alone that causes weight loss, any diet that makes restriction of calories over long term easier for a person, seems like a great method. My calories are varying widely- I'm counting without restricting much right now- but I haven't gone over 2400. And that was a day when I did an hour of murder cardio. I went over my maintenance by less than 100 cals. Of course, I'm really heavy, but I know from experience that my appetite shrinks with my body. Been doing keto a few weeks now and I'm 5 lbs from my lowest adult weight. Some of it is water, but not all, because I fit into clothing that I fit into the last time I was at this weight, not doing keto, just regular calorie restriction. I have FAILED at keto before, because I wasn't eating enough fat. You have to be at a calorie deficit, and you have to not be scared of the fat. I know it's hard after being told fat is the devil for years, but it's been worth it to me. And I'm not even saying this is a forever diet. But I am saying this is a diet I'm going to maintain until I'm out of the overweight BMI's. Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat. That's just simple mindfulness and tracking would be more than enough to keep food choices on track. But most of us are gonna need to be in a deficit for MONTHS if not YEARS, and not being hungry when you're constantly getting less food than your body wants you to eat (body always drives you to maintain or gain) is a pretty powerful tool in that.8 -
dowhatrightis wrote: »SchrodingersOtherCat wrote: »Keto is just another means to keep in calorific deficit. This has been proved by metabolic ward studies where everything is completely monitored including all calories, sleep & exercise. They show that there is no long term difference between keto & any other calorie deficit system regards weight loss. People do usually have a larger loss in the 1st few weeks but it's water. If it's not working for you then maybe try a different system. Plain calorie counting works fine.
Keto keeps you full and reduces hunger hormones over the long term.
And I'm not even saying this is a forever diet. But I am saying this is a diet I'm going to maintain until I'm out of the overweight BMI's. Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat. That's just simple mindfulness and tracking would be more than enough to keep food choices on track.
Again, a keto WOE keeps some people full, but I've seen many comment that it didn't work that way for them, or was undesirable for some other reason (many can't tolerate so much fat in their diet *raises hand*). It's great if it works for a person, though.
I would tend to disagree that eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight is "no sweat", otherwise people would be more successful at keeping the weight off. And it perplexes me when people have such a good experience on keto yet don't intend to keep it up indefinitely
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dowhatrightis wrote: »Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat.
Maybe for some people, but many of us find that maintaining has its own set of challenges. I personally am glad that I spent my time at a deficit eating pretty much the same way that I eat now because it gave me time to learn long-term strategies to meet my calorie goals, no matter what they are.
My life isn't really divided into deficit/maintaining. It's all about meeting a calorie goal that is sometimes lower and sometimes higher.
People who are maintaining still sometimes get really hungry or are tempted by food. It's not an "autopilot" situation. That kind of thinking, IMO, is why lasting weight loss is so elusive for many.
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dowhatrightis wrote: »SchrodingersOtherCat wrote: »Keto is just another means to keep in calorific deficit. This has been proved by metabolic ward studies where everything is completely monitored including all calories, sleep & exercise. They show that there is no long term difference between keto & any other calorie deficit system regards weight loss. People do usually have a larger loss in the 1st few weeks but it's water. If it's not working for you then maybe try a different system. Plain calorie counting works fine.
Except that you forget the human aspect: None of us here are in a metabolic ward having our meals handed to us and controlled by someone else. Keto keeps you full and reduces hunger hormones over the long term. Calorie restriction becomes far easier. But you have to eat enough dietary fat to feel satiated, too. For me, I can eat the same number of calories, like 400-500 calories per meal, but I have to hit 70% fat to get the benefit of long lasting saiety. While it is the calorie restriction alone that causes weight loss, any diet that makes restriction of calories over long term easier for a person, seems like a great method. My calories are varying widely- I'm counting without restricting much right now- but I haven't gone over 2400. And that was a day when I did an hour of murder cardio. I went over my maintenance by less than 100 cals. Of course, I'm really heavy, but I know from experience that my appetite shrinks with my body. Been doing keto a few weeks now and I'm 5 lbs from my lowest adult weight. Some of it is water, but not all, because I fit into clothing that I fit into the last time I was at this weight, not doing keto, just regular calorie restriction. I have FAILED at keto before, because I wasn't eating enough fat. You have to be at a calorie deficit, and you have to not be scared of the fat. I know it's hard after being told fat is the devil for years, but it's been worth it to me. And I'm not even saying this is a forever diet. But I am saying this is a diet I'm going to maintain until I'm out of the overweight BMI's. Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat. That's just simple mindfulness and tracking would be more than enough to keep food choices on track. But most of us are gonna need to be in a deficit for MONTHS if not YEARS, and not being hungry when you're constantly getting less food than your body wants you to eat (body always drives you to maintain or gain) is a pretty powerful tool in that.
To the bolded. No, keto doesn't satiate everyone or reduce hunger hormones (whatever those are), nor does it make calorie restriction far easier. If it helps *you* achieve the caloric deficit needed to lose weight, that's awesome. But it isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of deal like you are alluding to, here.
For example: Personally, fats don't satiate me at all. I would literally be miserable on a high-fat keto diet. And I know I'm far from the only one.
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I love how everyone is thinking that you're doing keto wrong because you haven't lost weight in 10 days. Well, let me tell you something : the scale lies.
There are several factors that determine the number you see on the scale, such as the time of the day, whether you have eaten prior, and how much water you’ve had. People on keto diet who dramatically cut calories lose a significant amount of muscle, which factors into their significant weight loss. Your weight might not plummet like you expect it to, but you might still be burning body fat. Even if the scale doesn’t move much, you are still getting leaner and losing body fat if you're doing the right things. Take notice of the difference in how your clothes fit, how you look in the mirror and pictures, and most importantly how you feel. Trust me, the scale doesn’t determine your progress. Progress pictures are a much better way of determining and benchmarking your success. A picture tells a thousand words and won't lie to you.
And for those who still believe in the calories in/calories out myth in 2018 and don't understand that it's all about hormonal responses, I have no word to discribe the disappointement I have for everyone of you. Please stop trying to help people if you have no idea what you're talking about45 -
EggsNSteaks wrote: »I love how everyone is thinking that you're doing keto wrong because you haven't lost weight in 10 days. Well, let me tell you something : the scale lies.
There are several factors that determine the number you see on the scale, such as the time of the day, whether you have eaten prior, and how much water you’ve had. People on keto diet who dramatically cut calories lose a significant amount of muscle, which factors into their significant weight loss. Your weight might not plummet like you expect it to, but you might still be burning body fat. Even if the scale doesn’t move much, you are still getting leaner and losing body fat if you're doing the right things. Take notice of the difference in how your clothes fit, how you look in the mirror and pictures, and most importantly how you feel. Trust me, the scale doesn’t determine your progress. Progress pictures are a much better way of determining and benchmarking your success. A picture tells a thousand words and won't lie to you.
And for those who still believe in the calories in/calories out myth in 2018 and don't understand that it's all about hormonal responses, I have no word to discribe the disappointement I have for everyone of you. Please stop trying to help people if you have no idea what you're talking about
I'll try to muddle through the rest of my life knowing I've disappointed you.35 -
OK. I will stop.EggsNSteaks wrote: »I love how everyone is thinking that you're doing keto wrong because you haven't lost weight in 10 days. Well, let me tell you something : the scale lies.
There are several factors that determine the number you see on the scale, such as the time of the day, whether you have eaten prior, and how much water you’ve had. People on keto diet who dramatically cut calories lose a significant amount of muscle, which factors into their significant weight loss. Your weight might not plummet like you expect it to, but you might still be burning body fat. Even if the scale doesn’t move much, you are still getting leaner and losing body fat if you're doing the right things. Take notice of the difference in how your clothes fit, how you look in the mirror and pictures, and most importantly how you feel. Trust me, the scale doesn’t determine your progress. Progress pictures are a much better way of determining and benchmarking your success. A picture tells a thousand words and won't lie to you.
And for those who still believe in the calories in/calories out myth in 2018 and don't understand that it's all about hormonal responses, I have no word to discribe the disappointement I have for everyone of you. Please stop trying to help people if you have no idea what you're talking about
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But most people can improve their health conditions and get off meds through weight loss alone, regardless of the WOE used to achieve it.
Quite true, but a few of us were born with birth defects and have various health issues that require lifelong medications no matter what we weigh. Plus all sorts of physical limitations to go along with it.
My entire family hit the genetic jackpot; all my siblings have serious autoimmune issues as well save my sister who wound up with a debilitating mental illness instead. And her daughter didn't get lucky, either, and hit the autoimmune jackpot at age 14 with Graves' disease plus female reproductive problems. But, I digress...
As I said in a previous post it works for me because it lessens my inflammation and helps with my migraines, something my current medications alone didn't do well. And yeah, there are other meds and things I could try but without health coverage or a massive income it's cost prohibitive.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »EggsNSteaks wrote: »I love how everyone is thinking that you're doing keto wrong because you haven't lost weight in 10 days. Well, let me tell you something : the scale lies.
There are several factors that determine the number you see on the scale, such as the time of the day, whether you have eaten prior, and how much water you’ve had. People on keto diet who dramatically cut calories lose a significant amount of muscle, which factors into their significant weight loss. Your weight might not plummet like you expect it to, but you might still be burning body fat. Even if the scale doesn’t move much, you are still getting leaner and losing body fat if you're doing the right things. Take notice of the difference in how your clothes fit, how you look in the mirror and pictures, and most importantly how you feel. Trust me, the scale doesn’t determine your progress. Progress pictures are a much better way of determining and benchmarking your success. A picture tells a thousand words and won't lie to you.
And for those who still believe in the calories in/calories out myth in 2018 and don't understand that it's all about hormonal responses, I have no word to discribe the disappointement I have for everyone of you. Please stop trying to help people if you have no idea what you're talking about
I'll try to muddle through the rest of my life knowing I've disappointed you.
I'll not be able to sleep at night knowing that @EggsNSteaks is disappointed in me.
Or that the laws of thermodynamics don't exist.
I'm of to burn my science books.22 -
dowhatrightis wrote: »SchrodingersOtherCat wrote: »Keto is just another means to keep in calorific deficit. This has been proved by metabolic ward studies where everything is completely monitored including all calories, sleep & exercise. They show that there is no long term difference between keto & any other calorie deficit system regards weight loss. People do usually have a larger loss in the 1st few weeks but it's water. If it's not working for you then maybe try a different system. Plain calorie counting works fine.
Except that you forget the human aspect: None of us here are in a metabolic ward having our meals handed to us and controlled by someone else. Keto keeps you full and reduces hunger hormones over the long term. Calorie restriction becomes far easier. But you have to eat enough dietary fat to feel satiated, too. For me, I can eat the same number of calories, like 400-500 calories per meal, but I have to hit 70% fat to get the benefit of long lasting saiety. While it is the calorie restriction alone that causes weight loss, any diet that makes restriction of calories over long term easier for a person, seems like a great method. My calories are varying widely- I'm counting without restricting much right now- but I haven't gone over 2400. And that was a day when I did an hour of murder cardio. I went over my maintenance by less than 100 cals. Of course, I'm really heavy, but I know from experience that my appetite shrinks with my body. Been doing keto a few weeks now and I'm 5 lbs from my lowest adult weight. Some of it is water, but not all, because I fit into clothing that I fit into the last time I was at this weight, not doing keto, just regular calorie restriction. I have FAILED at keto before, because I wasn't eating enough fat. You have to be at a calorie deficit, and you have to not be scared of the fat. I know it's hard after being told fat is the devil for years, but it's been worth it to me. And I'm not even saying this is a forever diet. But I am saying this is a diet I'm going to maintain until I'm out of the overweight BMI's. Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat. That's just simple mindfulness and tracking would be more than enough to keep food choices on track. But most of us are gonna need to be in a deficit for MONTHS if not YEARS, and not being hungry when you're constantly getting less food than your body wants you to eat (body always drives you to maintain or gain) is a pretty powerful tool in that.
I'm going to take a guess from this statement, that you haven't actually maintained weight loss for any length of time. There's a reason why most people regain their losses within 2 years and add weight on top of that-maintenance can be a LOT more challenging than the weight loss phase, which is typically a few months to a couple of years in length. Now think about having to be mindful of your food intake for 20, 30, 40+ years.....
I have nothing against keto but I just wanted to address this comment, as someone who's been in maintenance for years now and knows how hard it is (give me the weight loss phase any day, waaay easier
)
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snickerscharlie wrote: »dowhatrightis wrote: »SchrodingersOtherCat wrote: »Keto is just another means to keep in calorific deficit. This has been proved by metabolic ward studies where everything is completely monitored including all calories, sleep & exercise. They show that there is no long term difference between keto & any other calorie deficit system regards weight loss. People do usually have a larger loss in the 1st few weeks but it's water. If it's not working for you then maybe try a different system. Plain calorie counting works fine.
Except that you forget the human aspect: None of us here are in a metabolic ward having our meals handed to us and controlled by someone else. Keto keeps you full and reduces hunger hormones over the long term. Calorie restriction becomes far easier. But you have to eat enough dietary fat to feel satiated, too. For me, I can eat the same number of calories, like 400-500 calories per meal, but I have to hit 70% fat to get the benefit of long lasting saiety. While it is the calorie restriction alone that causes weight loss, any diet that makes restriction of calories over long term easier for a person, seems like a great method. My calories are varying widely- I'm counting without restricting much right now- but I haven't gone over 2400. And that was a day when I did an hour of murder cardio. I went over my maintenance by less than 100 cals. Of course, I'm really heavy, but I know from experience that my appetite shrinks with my body. Been doing keto a few weeks now and I'm 5 lbs from my lowest adult weight. Some of it is water, but not all, because I fit into clothing that I fit into the last time I was at this weight, not doing keto, just regular calorie restriction. I have FAILED at keto before, because I wasn't eating enough fat. You have to be at a calorie deficit, and you have to not be scared of the fat. I know it's hard after being told fat is the devil for years, but it's been worth it to me. And I'm not even saying this is a forever diet. But I am saying this is a diet I'm going to maintain until I'm out of the overweight BMI's. Eating maintenance calories when you're already at a healthy weight no sweat. That's just simple mindfulness and tracking would be more than enough to keep food choices on track. But most of us are gonna need to be in a deficit for MONTHS if not YEARS, and not being hungry when you're constantly getting less food than your body wants you to eat (body always drives you to maintain or gain) is a pretty powerful tool in that.
To the bolded. No, keto doesn't satiate everyone or reduce hunger hormones (whatever those are), nor does it make calorie restriction far easier. If it helps *you* achieve the caloric deficit needed to lose weight, that's awesome. But it isn't a one-size-fits-all kind of deal like you are alluding to, here.
For example: Personally, fats don't satiate me at all. I would literally be miserable on a high-fat keto diet. And I know I'm far from the only one.
Leptin and Ghrelin are the two hormones largely associated with hunger. As you suppress calories ghrelin increase which makes your more hungry. Leptin is suppressed/decreased in a deficit, which is the fat burning hormone. These can drive metabolic changes. Keto doesn't have an impact on these. In fact, what largely does have an impact on these is period refeeds; the leaner your are, the more frequent they should be. When you refeed, it should be the opposite of keto. It should be low fat, ultra high carb, moderate protein (~1g/lb of lbm). This has to be done for 2 consecutive days to get the impact.
When it comes to satiety, protein and fiber are universally filling. Fat and carbs are fairly individualistic. But if someone wants to actually compare the impacts of fat vs carbs, than compare 200 calories of butter to fruit, veggies or oats. Realistically, a blend of macronutrients seems to have the greatest impact. For me, that is low fat, high protein and carbs (particularly starches). This approach has helped me keep off 50 lbs for over 6 years. When I need to cut calories, I tailor back on fats and eliminate sweets.
When I was cycling keto, I was always starving. And I find it hard to believe that I should starve myself for weeks until my body adapts, when it's pretty well adapted already.
OP, get control of your calories. Fats add up very fast. And it you are making a lot of carb foods (i.e., beads) be very careful as many of them are loaded with calories. When I had keto days, there were a lot of recipes they were super high in calories.14 -
I have come to the conclusion that since Keto was developed for certain medical conditions, unless you are directed by a medical professional to try Keto it is probably best to avoid. Keto isn't much different than Atkins, and knowing the many friends who have been on Atkins for over 20 years, it doesn't really work for weight loss unless you actually count calories, which is what you aren't supposed to do. YMMV, but I say verify professionally before trying.5
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shelbydodgeguy wrote: »But most people can improve their health conditions and get off meds through weight loss alone, regardless of the WOE used to achieve it.
Quite true, but a few of us were born with birth defects and have various health issues that require lifelong medications no matter what we weigh. Plus all sorts of physical limitations to go along with it.
My entire family hit the genetic jackpot; all my siblings have serious autoimmune issues as well save my sister who wound up with a debilitating mental illness instead. And her daughter didn't get lucky, either, and hit the autoimmune jackpot at age 14 with Graves' disease plus female reproductive problems. But, I digress...
As I said in a previous post it works for me because it lessens my inflammation and helps with my migraines, something my current medications alone didn't do well. And yeah, there are other meds and things I could try but without health coverage or a massive income it's cost prohibitive.
Yep, that's why I said "most"
I realize some, like yourself, have certain medical conditions for which a keto diet provides a benefit outside of weight loss. The poster I was responding to was crediting keto specifically for his health improvements, as opposed to the weight loss he experienced, which typically brings about an improvement in health markers regardless of diet.5
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