Mediterranean Diet

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Replies

  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    If I had to pick one official diet this is the one I would pick, because it's freakin' delicious and I have found the closer I adhere to its tenets, the easier it was to lose and then maintain my weight. It also covers a very wide variety of cuisines.

    For high fiber, you should be nailing it if you eat 8-10 servings of fruit and veg a day (keep the peels on and make sure you are picking higher fiber selections), with at least one serving being fiber-rich legumes.

    Be careful, because there are plenty of Mediterranean foods that can get you in trouble--olive oil in particular needs to be measured very carefully as it is calorie dense at 120 calories per tablespoon.

    Also, I tend to give myself a fairly liberal interpretation of the region, but things that are traditionally French like quiche Lorraine or Brie and Camembert are actually very Northern, dairy-based, and in the case of the Lorraine region actually were German for long stretches of time. So, if you are looking at every last calorie, you would probably want to avoid heavy quiches and pick lighter cheeses like feta or parmesan.

    I think a really important aspect of the diet is (like the French and Italians and other guardians of traditional cuisines) to bring discernment, pride, and an emphasis on excellence to what you are putting on your plate. It should be simple and beautiful, with good quality ingredients, whether you can afford the high priced organic veg from Whole Foods or you are creating meals with more economical selections from the Birdseye frozen veg section. So many people are ashamed of their food, but it should be a source of pleasure, love and pride.

    There's a thread in the debate section that goes into this a bit more, it's actually pretty hard to get the recommended fiber, 30+ grams a day, just from vegetables/fruit. A serving of legumes would help, but most likely you'll still come short unless you're also eating whole grains, potatoes etc.

    I disagree. I find that if I have a variety of veg and some fruit and a serving of legumes, I'll generally be over 30, even if I don't happen to eat grains or potatoes (which only have 2 g per 100) that day. I might pick up some from other foods, like nuts or seeds, of course.

    I would be interested in seeing what veg/fruit combo, with a serving of legumes, would hit over 30g (genuinely interested). On a high veg/fruit day I hit around 20g from those, if I add a serving of beans I'd still be under a bit. Wondering what I could add to get my veg/fruit fiber numbers up :)

    I am just getting back into logging after quite a long while off, but here is a recent day. This is including grains too, but unless you are cutting them out completely, they are going to be there, making a contribution, as "background noise" at least.

    Oatmeal--4 g
    box raisins--2 g
    .25 cup quinoia--1 g
    1 c broccoli--4 g
    1/2 c apple--2 g
    Chipotle mild salsa--1 g
    Chipotle chips (not a full bag)--2 g
    2/3 Chipotle burrito white rice/mild salsa/corn salsa/black beans --10 g
    3 clementines--4 g
    1 oz popcorn--2 g

    For a total of 32 g for a normal day with 8-ish servings.

    A group of us have done a challenge from time to time involving 10+ servings of fruit and veg a day; when you get THAT much fiber (in addition to the "background noise" fiber from your run of mill diet, it does, let's say, interesting things to your deposits at the Brown & Company Fidelity Fiduciary Depository Corp. till you get things straightened out. (My secret weapon/nemesis/downfall is a full bag of dried blueberries--8 g fiber for 190 calories).

    Reaching your fiber goal with the helps of chips and salsa, that's truly smart living!

    Yes, but we were looking for examples of hitting it without grains, like oatmeal, rice, tortilla (I believe the Chipotle ones are wheat).

    OK: One day's fiber from veg/fruit.

    3g - mixed berries
    4g - winter squash
    11g - brussels sprouts
    2g - onions
    1g - tomatoes
    1g - cucumber
    2g - avocado
    2g - kumquats

    Not quite 30, but 26. If I count the permissable 1 serving of legumes (lentils at 6.3g), that's 32. Total for the day, 51g. (Balance from more lentils and miscellaneous small contributors like nuts, seeds, spices, tofu; only 7g from grains (oatmeal for 3g, Ezekiel pita for 4g).

    This is a high side of average day, I'd say. Around 40g is pretty normal, and that proportion from grains is pretty normal, too.
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    Also you need to choose which Med country you'd prefer to follow.

    Why? The goal is to create a diet structure that works regardless of the individual dishes. Greece and Morocco might have flat bread, Spain uses more rice, Italy pasta, but the point is the portion of those, the types of protein, lots of fruit and veg, etc.

    Because...perhaps the OP doesn't like rice, or pasta, or prefers flat bread. I'd look at what different Med countries eat and choose the one that is closer to my likes. This in a context of overall diet.

    I think the point is: Why choose one? The so-called "Mediterranean diet" is an eating pattern. It allows for variations. It can include foods from multiple Mediterranean countries, and (I'd suggest) even completely non-Mediterranean countries. Are the same vegetables and grains suddenly not as healthy because we use South Asian or African or South American spices in them?

    I think, if you are going to be doing a lot of your own cooking, it would be helpful to get to know one country's cuisines and food practices/attitudes really well, and then to branch off from there. But it is certainly not mandatory. It just makes it easier at the grocery store, knowing which foods to buy and what to keep stocked in your pantry. I can cruise along pretty well with French, Italian and Greek, but if I suddenly had to switch to Israeli or Moroccan, I would be pretty lost and would have to do a lot of research and practice to prepare my meals. (This is beyond eating at restaurants or buying some hummus and pitas or veg). It's just helpful to have an intellectual framework of what flavors go together, what is the aromatic foundation of the cuisine, what herbs and spices work best together, etc.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    This is actually why I don't like the term "Med diet" for the healthy eating pattern described above. My cooking isn't particularly Mediterranean in style. If I cook in any style on a regular basis, it's something of a farm-to-table American style, pretty simple on a day to day basis, but with various dishes I've adopted/adapted from a variety of cultures (I like reading regionally-based cookbooks and experimenting with different ideas).

    But it still fits the Mayo Clinic list in most respects.
  • carbos101
    carbos101 Posts: 48 Member
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.
  • jennifer_417
    jennifer_417 Posts: 12,344 Member
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    jennifer_417 wrote: »
    This is a website based on calorie counting for weight loss (or gain). Most of us find specific diets unnecessary for weight loss.

    Being on and off of these forums for a few years now I've seen differently, many here follow some sort of structured plan, either instead of calorie tracking, or in conjection with tracking. Weight management comes down to calorie balance but there's numerous ways to go about that.

    But, the Mediterranean way of eating is not a weight loss plan per se but a style of eating, which can be done along with straight calorie counting/tracking. It's not one or the other.

    I understand. I was responding to OPs comment about not seeing much about it in the forums.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    nowine4me wrote: »
    OP- easy to get 50+ grams of fiber on the med WOE. The center of all meals should be leafy green and non starchy veg. Add in beans, rice, potatoes and lots of fruit. Then add meat/fish/eggs as a condiment. Depending on your calorie goal, keep nuts, oils, avocado, seeds and wine to a minimum.

    Why keep those things to a "minimum"? They are important, since fat aids in the absorption of certain micronutrients in vegetables.

    I agree not to go crazy with them because they're calorie dense, but people should also meet a minimal daily intake of them for optimal hormonal health. IIRC, that's at least .35-.45 g per pound of healthy body weight. You should probably aim for a bit more than that if some of the fat you're eating is in nuts since not all of that gets absorbed.

    I know that I personally used to eat too little fat and I had terrible skin problems because if it.
  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    If I had to pick one official diet this is the one I would pick, because it's freakin' delicious and I have found the closer I adhere to its tenets, the easier it was to lose and then maintain my weight. It also covers a very wide variety of cuisines.

    For high fiber, you should be nailing it if you eat 8-10 servings of fruit and veg a day (keep the peels on and make sure you are picking higher fiber selections), with at least one serving being fiber-rich legumes.

    Be careful, because there are plenty of Mediterranean foods that can get you in trouble--olive oil in particular needs to be measured very carefully as it is calorie dense at 120 calories per tablespoon.

    Also, I tend to give myself a fairly liberal interpretation of the region, but things that are traditionally French like quiche Lorraine or Brie and Camembert are actually very Northern, dairy-based, and in the case of the Lorraine region actually were German for long stretches of time. So, if you are looking at every last calorie, you would probably want to avoid heavy quiches and pick lighter cheeses like feta or parmesan.

    I think a really important aspect of the diet is (like the French and Italians and other guardians of traditional cuisines) to bring discernment, pride, and an emphasis on excellence to what you are putting on your plate. It should be simple and beautiful, with good quality ingredients, whether you can afford the high priced organic veg from Whole Foods or you are creating meals with more economical selections from the Birdseye frozen veg section. So many people are ashamed of their food, but it should be a source of pleasure, love and pride.

    There's a thread in the debate section that goes into this a bit more, it's actually pretty hard to get the recommended fiber, 30+ grams a day, just from vegetables/fruit. A serving of legumes would help, but most likely you'll still come short unless you're also eating whole grains, potatoes etc.

    I disagree. I find that if I have a variety of veg and some fruit and a serving of legumes, I'll generally be over 30, even if I don't happen to eat grains or potatoes (which only have 2 g per 100) that day. I might pick up some from other foods, like nuts or seeds, of course.

    I would be interested in seeing what veg/fruit combo, with a serving of legumes, would hit over 30g (genuinely interested). On a high veg/fruit day I hit around 20g from those, if I add a serving of beans I'd still be under a bit. Wondering what I could add to get my veg/fruit fiber numbers up :)

    I am just getting back into logging after quite a long while off, but here is a recent day. This is including grains too, but unless you are cutting them out completely, they are going to be there, making a contribution, as "background noise" at least.

    Oatmeal--4 g
    box raisins--2 g
    .25 cup quinoia--1 g
    1 c broccoli--4 g
    1/2 c apple--2 g
    Chipotle mild salsa--1 g
    Chipotle chips (not a full bag)--2 g
    2/3 Chipotle burrito white rice/mild salsa/corn salsa/black beans --10 g
    3 clementines--4 g
    1 oz popcorn--2 g

    For a total of 32 g for a normal day with 8-ish servings.

    A group of us have done a challenge from time to time involving 10+ servings of fruit and veg a day; when you get THAT much fiber (in addition to the "background noise" fiber from your run of mill diet, it does, let's say, interesting things to your deposits at the Brown & Company Fidelity Fiduciary Depository Corp. till you get things straightened out. (My secret weapon/nemesis/downfall is a full bag of dried blueberries--8 g fiber for 190 calories).

    Reaching your fiber goal with the helps of chips and salsa, that's truly smart living!

    Yes, but we were looking for examples of hitting it without grains, like oatmeal, rice, tortilla (I believe the Chipotle ones are wheat).

    OK: One day's fiber from veg/fruit.

    3g - mixed berries
    4g - winter squash
    11g - brussels sprouts
    2g - onions
    1g - tomatoes
    1g - cucumber
    2g - avocado
    2g - kumquats

    Not quite 30, but 26. If I count the permissable 1 serving of legumes (lentils at 6.3g), that's 32. Total for the day, 51g. (Balance from more lentils and miscellaneous small contributors like nuts, seeds, spices, tofu; only 7g from grains (oatmeal for 3g, Ezekiel pita for 4g).

    This is a high side of average day, I'd say. Around 40g is pretty normal, and that proportion from grains is pretty normal, too.
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    Also you need to choose which Med country you'd prefer to follow.

    Why? The goal is to create a diet structure that works regardless of the individual dishes. Greece and Morocco might have flat bread, Spain uses more rice, Italy pasta, but the point is the portion of those, the types of protein, lots of fruit and veg, etc.

    Because...perhaps the OP doesn't like rice, or pasta, or prefers flat bread. I'd look at what different Med countries eat and choose the one that is closer to my likes. This in a context of overall diet.

    I think the point is: Why choose one? The so-called "Mediterranean diet" is an eating pattern. It allows for variations. It can include foods from multiple Mediterranean countries, and (I'd suggest) even completely non-Mediterranean countries. Are the same vegetables and grains suddenly not as healthy because we use South Asian or African or South American spices in them?

    Well then, maybe we should think of a different name for it. ;)
  • zeejane03
    zeejane03 Posts: 993 Member
    edited January 2019
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Well, this almost describes me perfectly, gourmet chef I am not lol. I also eat completely different than my family and prepare the food for all of us, so I need to do things in a way that's economical and efficient.

    -I eat a lot of frozen and fresh veggies and fruit: veggies in stir-frys, rice bowls or salads, fruit in green smoothies, baked sweet potatoes and roasted potatoes with spices (mostly the small 'fingerling' ones in various colors)
    -canned beans: in salads, burritos or in baked bean mixes-where I take various canned kinds and mix them with a can of baked beans
    -whole grains bread (Aldi has really great ones); oats (I mix a serving of plain with a packet of the flavored stuff), crackers and then I do eat a lot of white rice since I like the taste better and it's not much different than brown rice.
    -low fat dairy: Greek yogurt for my smoothies and then low fat cheese/cottage cheese
    -fish 3 times a week; I buy it frozen and prepping it consists of dumping some low calorie Italian dressing on it :D
    -the rest of my calories comes from condiments, oil and the occasional savory snack like popcorn, chips etc.

    I'm not a sweets person and have pretty much cut out added sugar except for the trace amounts in crackers and dairy and then the flavored oat packets and baked beans sauce. I've also pretty much eliminated all meat besides fish. Starting this process I had planned on still eating it a few times a month but it just doesn't fit into my day anymore. I also have mostly cut out eggs, maybe 1 a week at this point in a stir-fry.

    I'm also very interested in how the SDAs in Loma Linda eat/Blue Zones, and they've definitely influenced the direction I'm going in now. The SDAs are mostly vegetarian, but there's a sub-group within them that are pescetarians, and they have better longevity outcomes than their comparative group. This matches up with the other Blue Zones who also eat fish on a regular basis, so that's what I'm modeling my woe after :)
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.

    Interestingly, Irish and Scottish oats have a worse nutritional profile than your basic Quaker Rolled Oats. Less fiber and protein per 100 grams. I wonder how that could be; I was under the impression that the less processed oats would be slightly better. I just looked this up because I have ***GEEK ALERT*** gone down the rabbit hole of calculating the fiber/KCal ratio for an assortment of foods. .022 for Scottish vs. .026 for Quaker Rolled. To put this in perspective, apples are .05, black beans are .07, and raspberries are .13.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    edited January 2019
    With the exception of certain medical conditions, people in high risk categories, and going to absurd extremes I think the healthiest diet is one that you can follow and lose weight. This will vary from one person to the next. I think adding unnecessary "healthy" requirements and rules can be a recipe for failure if you don't like the foods you are eating or you are not left with enough calories for treats when you want them.

    My WoE definitely has some Mediterranean Diet influences but then I liked eating this way even when I was not trying to lose weight. I think researching some of the more reputable diets is great for ideas but I always suggest picking and choosing which parts to incorporate that will make sense for you for the rest of your life.

    ETA: This all assumes you maintain basic nutrition requirements.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    zeejane03 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    If I had to pick one official diet this is the one I would pick, because it's freakin' delicious and I have found the closer I adhere to its tenets, the easier it was to lose and then maintain my weight. It also covers a very wide variety of cuisines.

    For high fiber, you should be nailing it if you eat 8-10 servings of fruit and veg a day (keep the peels on and make sure you are picking higher fiber selections), with at least one serving being fiber-rich legumes.

    Be careful, because there are plenty of Mediterranean foods that can get you in trouble--olive oil in particular needs to be measured very carefully as it is calorie dense at 120 calories per tablespoon.

    Also, I tend to give myself a fairly liberal interpretation of the region, but things that are traditionally French like quiche Lorraine or Brie and Camembert are actually very Northern, dairy-based, and in the case of the Lorraine region actually were German for long stretches of time. So, if you are looking at every last calorie, you would probably want to avoid heavy quiches and pick lighter cheeses like feta or parmesan.

    I think a really important aspect of the diet is (like the French and Italians and other guardians of traditional cuisines) to bring discernment, pride, and an emphasis on excellence to what you are putting on your plate. It should be simple and beautiful, with good quality ingredients, whether you can afford the high priced organic veg from Whole Foods or you are creating meals with more economical selections from the Birdseye frozen veg section. So many people are ashamed of their food, but it should be a source of pleasure, love and pride.

    There's a thread in the debate section that goes into this a bit more, it's actually pretty hard to get the recommended fiber, 30+ grams a day, just from vegetables/fruit. A serving of legumes would help, but most likely you'll still come short unless you're also eating whole grains, potatoes etc.

    I disagree. I find that if I have a variety of veg and some fruit and a serving of legumes, I'll generally be over 30, even if I don't happen to eat grains or potatoes (which only have 2 g per 100) that day. I might pick up some from other foods, like nuts or seeds, of course.

    I would be interested in seeing what veg/fruit combo, with a serving of legumes, would hit over 30g (genuinely interested). On a high veg/fruit day I hit around 20g from those, if I add a serving of beans I'd still be under a bit. Wondering what I could add to get my veg/fruit fiber numbers up :)

    I am just getting back into logging after quite a long while off, but here is a recent day. This is including grains too, but unless you are cutting them out completely, they are going to be there, making a contribution, as "background noise" at least.

    Oatmeal--4 g
    box raisins--2 g
    .25 cup quinoia--1 g
    1 c broccoli--4 g
    1/2 c apple--2 g
    Chipotle mild salsa--1 g
    Chipotle chips (not a full bag)--2 g
    2/3 Chipotle burrito white rice/mild salsa/corn salsa/black beans --10 g
    3 clementines--4 g
    1 oz popcorn--2 g

    For a total of 32 g for a normal day with 8-ish servings.

    A group of us have done a challenge from time to time involving 10+ servings of fruit and veg a day; when you get THAT much fiber (in addition to the "background noise" fiber from your run of mill diet, it does, let's say, interesting things to your deposits at the Brown & Company Fidelity Fiduciary Depository Corp. till you get things straightened out. (My secret weapon/nemesis/downfall is a full bag of dried blueberries--8 g fiber for 190 calories).

    Reaching your fiber goal with the helps of chips and salsa, that's truly smart living!

    Yes, but we were looking for examples of hitting it without grains, like oatmeal, rice, tortilla (I believe the Chipotle ones are wheat).

    OK: One day's fiber from veg/fruit.

    3g - mixed berries
    4g - winter squash
    11g - brussels sprouts
    2g - onions
    1g - tomatoes
    1g - cucumber
    2g - avocado
    2g - kumquats

    Not quite 30, but 26. If I count the permissable 1 serving of legumes (lentils at 6.3g), that's 32. Total for the day, 51g. (Balance from more lentils and miscellaneous small contributors like nuts, seeds, spices, tofu; only 7g from grains (oatmeal for 3g, Ezekiel pita for 4g).

    This is a high side of average day, I'd say. Around 40g is pretty normal, and that proportion from grains is pretty normal, too.
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    concordancia wrote: »
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    Also you need to choose which Med country you'd prefer to follow.

    Why? The goal is to create a diet structure that works regardless of the individual dishes. Greece and Morocco might have flat bread, Spain uses more rice, Italy pasta, but the point is the portion of those, the types of protein, lots of fruit and veg, etc.

    Because...perhaps the OP doesn't like rice, or pasta, or prefers flat bread. I'd look at what different Med countries eat and choose the one that is closer to my likes. This in a context of overall diet.

    I think the point is: Why choose one? The so-called "Mediterranean diet" is an eating pattern. It allows for variations. It can include foods from multiple Mediterranean countries, and (I'd suggest) even completely non-Mediterranean countries. Are the same vegetables and grains suddenly not as healthy because we use South Asian or African or South American spices in them?

    I think, if you are going to be doing a lot of your own cooking, it would be helpful to get to know one country's cuisines and food practices/attitudes really well, and then to branch off from there. But it is certainly not mandatory. It just makes it easier at the grocery store, knowing which foods to buy and what to keep stocked in your pantry. I can cruise along pretty well with French, Italian and Greek, but if I suddenly had to switch to Israeli or Moroccan, I would be pretty lost and would have to do a lot of research and practice to prepare my meals. (This is beyond eating at restaurants or buying some hummus and pitas or veg). It's just helpful to have an intellectual framework of what flavors go together, what is the aromatic foundation of the cuisine, what herbs and spices work best together, etc.

    If someone's not used to cooking at all, they do need to learn to roast and steam veggies, cook grain, and that sort of basic thing. It doesn't need to be much more complicated than that.

    Part of my reason for weighing in on this sub-thread is that (to some), I think it may sound daunting to research and master a particular country's cooking, then move on to the next. To the extent that the benefits of eating a so-called "Mediterranean Diet" are from the eating pattern, not specific dishes, then the eating pattern is the important thing to understand. It can be followed just with standard preps of the foods that people may be familiar with, but a few simple swaps (like less salt, more monounsaturated/polyunsaturated fats and less saturated fats, etc.).

    The Mayo Clinic's overview of the Mediterranean diet is as follows:
    The Mediterranean diet emphasizes:

    Eating primarily plant-based foods, such as fruits and vegetables, whole grains, legumes and nuts
    Replacing butter with healthy fats such as olive oil and canola oil
    Using herbs and spices instead of salt to flavor foods
    Limiting red meat to no more than a few times a month
    Eating fish and poultry at least twice a week
    Enjoying meals with family and friends
    Drinking red wine in moderation (optional)
    Getting plenty of exercise

    It goes on with details (https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801), but it's about the pattern, not the specifics.

    That kind of eating pattern can be accomplished incrementally, with gradual changes in how one cooks/eats - similar to gradually getting to a balanced diet generally, or to a satisfying eating style at low calories, or what-have-you. It can most manageably (IMO) be an eating evolution, rather than revolution.

    I think the difference between you & me is that I'm much more of a flake/experimentalist. (From being on threads with you, I think you're a more disciplined gourmet/gourmand.) I've been cooking for decades, and rarely use recipes.

    I've gone through phases of test-driving various cuisines (and I'm vegetarian, so mostly vegetable), and even so mostly look at recipes to understand unusual combinations of flavors, and characteristic seasoning profiles, then I wing it.

    If it tastes good, and is nutritious, I'm happy, whether it's pure "Indian" or "Kenyan" or "Italian" or "Greek", or not. A pretty small range of pantry supplies and spices will cover quite a range of cuisines (if one is that structured) or varied flavors (if one isn't). Any of that, though, is just fancy stuff on top of the eating pattern.

    I agree with you on everything except the part where you suggest I am a disciplined gourmet. :D I’m just a redneck Hoosier who learned to cook from free Julia Child mini books that came free with Dove soap. And of course my moms 1960s Betty Crocker. If I spent as much time actually cooking food as I do reading and thinking about food and how it relates to culture, I would probably be as brave and freewheeling as you. I always use recipes, sometimes comparing multiple recipes and working from all of them, sometimes following and disregarding the recipe at the same time, even for foods I know like the back of my hand.

    At any rate, hopefully none of this strikes anyone as daunting...we ARE at least discussing it now. :p

    Ha! This is how I cook!

    For a recent example, I was looking at two recipes for Spanakopita and decided to complicate my life further, and got a third recipe from my neighbor's very Greek grandmother's cookbook. Afterwards, when we were eating and discussing, it turned out her grandmother didn't really use that recipe but instead something very similar to mine from the Moosewood Cookbook.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,622 Member
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.

    Interestingly, Irish and Scottish oats have a worse nutritional profile than your basic Quaker Rolled Oats. Less fiber and protein per 100 grams. I wonder how that could be; I was under the impression that the less processed oats would be slightly better. I just looked this up because I have ***GEEK ALERT*** gone down the rabbit hole of calculating the fiber/KCal ratio for an assortment of foods. .022 for Scottish vs. .026 for Quaker Rolled. To put this in perspective, apples are .05, black beans are .07, and raspberries are .13.

    For time saving in your geekery, note that this thread:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

    Has these columns (note bolded) in the linked spreadsheet, for a large number of foods:
    Column Title Meaning
    A P%Cal Rank Ranking of food by Protein Kcal / Total Cals (Highest is ranked 1st)
    B Food Food Name
    C Food Category 1 of 12 food categories
    D Kcal Caloric content of 100g of food (EU standard)
    E Protein Protein content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    F Carb Carb content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    G Fat Fat content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    H Fiber Fiber content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    I Grams Fiber/100kcal This is the fiber bang for your caloric buck information. Especially good for calorie restricted diets

    Geek on . . . . ;)

    (That's interesting about the oats. I wouldn't have guessed. The difference in processing would seem to be that rolled oats are steamed before smashing, whereas the others are ground/chopped in one way or another. (https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/healthy-living/steel-cut-rolled-instant-scottish/). But I'm not seeing that same difference comparing Bob's (via the "shop" option at the linked site) steel-cut vs. thick rolled (both gluten free). Equalizing for different grams in 1/2C so comparing 100g, I'm getting less fiber in steel-cut (9.1g vs. 10.9g), but more protein (13.6g vs. 12.7g). Of course, that's assuming I did the arithmetic correctly (usually a bad assumption ;) ), and I'd note that it's within the 20% labeling margin of error, so who knows?)

    Lotsa geeks on this bus . . . !
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited January 2019
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.

    Interestingly, Irish and Scottish oats have a worse nutritional profile than your basic Quaker Rolled Oats. Less fiber and protein per 100 grams. I wonder how that could be; I was under the impression that the less processed oats would be slightly better. I just looked this up because I have ***GEEK ALERT*** gone down the rabbit hole of calculating the fiber/KCal ratio for an assortment of foods. .022 for Scottish vs. .026 for Quaker Rolled. To put this in perspective, apples are .05, black beans are .07, and raspberries are .13.

    Depends on the brand, but for me it's just a taste preference, they all seem about the same.

    Bob's Red Mill rolled oats (55 g) -- 210 cal, 6 g of fiber, 7 g protein.
    Bob's Red Mill steel cut (44 g) -- 170 cal, 4 g fiber, 6 g protein -- I assume this is just that there are more grams in the serving (because fewer steel cuts fit in a particular volume) plus rounding, as the ingredients are the same.

    Quaker (40 g) -- 150 cal, 4 g of fiber, 5 g protein.

    IMO, none of them are really more processed, including instant, they are all just cut differently.

  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    @carbos101 while I do keep a few cans of beans on hand for when I fail to plan, lentils cook up so quickly that I have never bought them canned.

    Many posters here swear by InstaPot type devices for cooking beans - I just throw dried black beans and lots of water into a crock pot and cook them for 8 hours - no soaking required. (Bigger beans might take longer - haven't made any recently.)

    If you like Indian spices, there are many many recipes for different types of dal. Sometimes, to mix it up a bit, I swap Thai red curry paste for the spices in some Indian recipes.

    Since you are a vegetarian, you can also get protein from dairy. Fat-free cottage cheese has a great protein bang for the calorie buck. (I won't eat reduced fat cheese, but have no problem with FF cottage cheese.)

    I lived in vegetarian yoga communities for three years and am still nauseated by tofu and cooked oatmeal, but I do like rolled oats "overnight" style - marinated in yogurt, which "cooks" them. Use Greek yogurt for more protein. I add a half scoop of chocolate protein powder as well. And 1/2 T chia seeds and 50 grams raspberries.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.

    Interestingly, Irish and Scottish oats have a worse nutritional profile than your basic Quaker Rolled Oats. Less fiber and protein per 100 grams. I wonder how that could be; I was under the impression that the less processed oats would be slightly better. I just looked this up because I have ***GEEK ALERT*** gone down the rabbit hole of calculating the fiber/KCal ratio for an assortment of foods. .022 for Scottish vs. .026 for Quaker Rolled. To put this in perspective, apples are .05, black beans are .07, and raspberries are .13.

    For time saving in your geekery, note that this thread:

    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

    Has these columns (note bolded) in the linked spreadsheet, for a large number of foods:
    Column Title Meaning
    A P%Cal Rank Ranking of food by Protein Kcal / Total Cals (Highest is ranked 1st)
    B Food Food Name
    C Food Category 1 of 12 food categories
    D Kcal Caloric content of 100g of food (EU standard)
    E Protein Protein content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    F Carb Carb content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    G Fat Fat content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    H Fiber Fiber content per 100g of food (also doubles as a percentage)
    I Grams Fiber/100kcal This is the fiber bang for your caloric buck information. Especially good for calorie restricted diets

    Geek on . . . . ;)

    (That's interesting about the oats. I wouldn't have guessed. The difference in processing would seem to be that rolled oats are steamed before smashing, whereas the others are ground/chopped in one way or another. (https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/healthy-living/steel-cut-rolled-instant-scottish/). But I'm not seeing that same difference comparing Bob's (via the "shop" option at the linked site) steel-cut vs. thick rolled (both gluten free). Equalizing for different grams in 1/2C so comparing 100g, I'm getting less fiber in steel-cut (9.1g vs. 10.9g), but more protein (13.6g vs. 12.7g). Of course, that's assuming I did the arithmetic correctly (usually a bad assumption ;) ), and I'd note that it's within the 20% labeling margin of error, so who knows?)

    Lotsa geeks on this bus . . . !

    Thank you! I forgot that spreadsheet had fiber as well. I was just doing some back of envelope calcs, but yes, this would definitely superpower my geekery.
  • carbos101
    carbos101 Posts: 48 Member
    Thank you, AnnPT77, for the link -- can't wait to check out.
  • merekins
    merekins Posts: 228 Member
    Does anyone know resources for actual Med recipes? I keep finding recipes for the Med Diet which seem to be more like revamps of American recipes with a healthy dose of quinoa. Am looking for typical family recipes that would be served in those areas. Turkey and Greece for example are both Med but are fairly different.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited January 2019
    merekins wrote: »
    Does anyone know resources for actual Med recipes? I keep finding recipes for the Med Diet which seem to be more like revamps of American recipes with a healthy dose of quinoa. Am looking for typical family recipes that would be served in those areas. Turkey and Greece for example are both Med but are fairly different.

    My library system has 90 results for "Mediterranean diet" so perhaps check yours out?

    Meanwhile, I added the "Mediterranean" filter and got 457 results here: https://cooking.nytimes.com/search?filters[cuisines][]=mediterranean&q=&page=1 (you may have to create a login)

    I've made something similar to https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1019772-spiced-chickpea-stew-with-coconut-and-turmeric only with lentils and fresh coconut (I was in Costa Rico at the time.) Like other reviewers, I would swap one of the cans of coconut milk with an equal amount of stock, but if you have the calories to afford both cans of coconut milk, that would be super yummy.

    This looks good too: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1017166-tuna-cauliflower-and-white-bean-salad
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    There are lots of great cookbooks featuring the cuisine of different Med countries. I page through cookbooks to get ideas, although I don't follow recipes really.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,622 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    French_Peasant wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    carbos101 wrote: »
    Ya'll sound like gourmets compared to me - what's the healthiest, easiest, way to eat other than raw or frozen veggies, nuts, canned lentils, beans (can't stand canned foods but need to get over it), wholegrain cereals, the healthy Irish/Scottish oats (not the easiest to make), and the Trader Joe's frozen oatmeal is all flavored/sugared up I'd love to be able to eat strictly vegetarian but need more straight protein (unfortunately) like from meat. Any suggestions other than tofu and eggs? Chicken seems to be a staple but I try not to eat too much.

    Would love to be able to eat the Okinawa diet or the Loma Linda, California (7th Day Adventists) diet. It's tough.

    Raw and frozen veg: cooked veg are just as healthy. I eat a variety of cooked and raw.

    Beans/lentils -- if you don't like canned, buy dried. I do use both because canned are so much more efficient but an instapot or pre-planning makes dried easier. Some legumes (like lentils!) take much less time. I always do lentils from dry.

    You can cook oats (I prefer steel cut, but that's just my texture preference) in a rice cooker or crock pot or do overnight. It's not hard to do even in a pot, though, and there are instant options (John McCann does one), and also instant rolled unflavored (Quaker's plan, among others). Pretty sure you can find plain instant at TJs.

    I'm not vegetarian and particularly value fish, but my suggestions for veg protein (beyond tofu and eggs) is cottage cheese, plain greek yogurt, tempeh, seitan, and -- the one I eat most -- beans and lentils and pulses. When doing veg, lower sources of protein are important, like having nuts and seeds, that lots of veg have protein, that whole grains have some protein.

    Interestingly, Irish and Scottish oats have a worse nutritional profile than your basic Quaker Rolled Oats. Less fiber and protein per 100 grams. I wonder how that could be; I was under the impression that the less processed oats would be slightly better. I just looked this up because I have ***GEEK ALERT*** gone down the rabbit hole of calculating the fiber/KCal ratio for an assortment of foods. .022 for Scottish vs. .026 for Quaker Rolled. To put this in perspective, apples are .05, black beans are .07, and raspberries are .13.

    Depends on the brand, but for me it's just a taste preference, they all seem about the same.

    Bob's Red Mill rolled oats (55 g) -- 210 cal, 6 g of fiber, 7 g protein.
    Bob's Red Mill steel cut (44 g) -- 170 cal, 4 g fiber, 6 g protein -- I assume this is just that there are more grams in the serving (because fewer steel cuts fit in a particular volume) plus rounding, as the ingredients are the same.

    Quaker (40 g) -- 150 cal, 4 g of fiber, 5 g protein.

    IMO, none of them are really more processed, including instant, they are all just cut differently.

    According the Bob's Red Mill blog I linked above, the rolled ones are steamed so they hold together while being rolled, and the instant are pre-cooked. I'd call that "more processed" . . . which is not particularly a criticism, in my book. I don't see why I should care if they pre-cook them, or I cook them, they're cooked.

    (That said, just to inject some crankiness, I think the flavored packets of instant oats are mostly kind of icky, not a great texture/too sweet/odd flavors, though I'll eat them if they're the best option at a motel "continental breakfast". I also don't think they're appreciably more convenient than scooping some rolled oats into a deep bowl, dumping in water, and sticking them in the microwave.)
  • merekins
    merekins Posts: 228 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Whenever I'm Googling recipes, I zero in on a particular ingredient plus cuisine type and go from there. So something like "Italian chickpea recipes" or "Greek fish recipes" might yield you results.
    Am trying that with pomegranate syrup. Have turkish recipe for stuffed peppers that used in as a finishing sauce and trying to find other ways to use the bottle up. Lol
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,622 Member
    Do any of you instant-pot users know whether they get kidney beans hot enough long enough to avoid concerns about toxicity? This seems, from the kinds of sources that talk about it, to be a real thing (not life-threatening typically, but potentially very unpleasant in some cases). Reputedly, just slow cooking (crockpot) is a bad plan.
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