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Company tests for and will not hire smokers

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Replies

  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,498 Member
    stinkyfungus wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    stinkyfungus wrote: »
    Cassandraw3 wrote: »
    How is this much different from testing for any drugs? As a hospital, I can understand the desire to not hire employees who smoke. There is evidence against second and third hand smoke being harmful. If this hospital deals with people who are already unhealthy, for example lung cancer, exposing them to someone who smells of smoke could potentially be harmful to that patient's health. That makes the smokers a liability to the hospital.


    How is this much different from testing for any drugs?

    Because right now at this moment...
    Nicotine is legal... and “drugs” ain’t. (Well some states have decriminalized pot)

    A pre employment drug screening looking for (illegal) controlled substances is reasonable.
    You aren’t supposed to use those period.

    A pre employment screening for (legal) substances used on your own time is not.


    Can they say smoking during work hours on property is against the rules? They sure can. That’s reasonable. Same as a zero tolerance policy concerning alcohol in the work place.

    But telling people what legal activities they can indulge in off property and off hours is pretty questionable.

    What’s next?
    Zero tolerance alcohol testing? - oh you like a glass of Merlot with dinner? You lush! No job for you!

    Bacon testing? - your sodium and nitrate levels are too high...you pig! no job for you!

    How about dangerous pastimes?

    Hey, we see you like to ride a bicycle, that’s risky you might be hit by a car, and actually USE that health insurance you pay for.
    No job for you!

    Oh, we see you enjoy surfing...
    well we don’t want any potential shark attack victims in our office - no job for you!

    In addition to your statement that "drugs ain't [legal]" save for various states that have decriminalized pot, you might also want to mention that there are various states where it's perfectly legal to test for nicotine. Yes that would poke holes in your post, but who said transparency was bad?


    Ummm, I never said some states permit employers to test for nicotine during a pre employment drug screen. Or that the practice was illegal.

    This fact Is moot.

    My point (which you seem to have missed) was
    That evidently what one does these days on their own time, off property, is becoming the business of the employers we work for. (And is being facilitated by our own legislatures)

    Does that not strike you as maybe just a little disconcerting?
    Maybe a little invasive?

    Is “your” time truly your own off the clock?
    It seems that for some folks... it’s not.

    I don’t like it. It scares me a little.
    It should scare everyone.

    Pity it does not.

    If a person has a right to smoke, I'm thinking a company that is paying for health insurance as part of the employee's compensation has the right to not hire someone that raises their costs due to a controllable situation.

    Direct cause and effect IMO. Bit of a slippery slope if the company isn't paying insurance.
  • vollkornbloedchen
    vollkornbloedchen Posts: 2,243 Member
    Grimmerick wrote: »
    There are some smokers however that [...] do not go to work smelling like smoke.

    As an ex-smoker I can assure you that this is frankly impossible, except for those very few people that have an ozone-shower at the door of their appartment.

    Anyhow I can very well see why an employer wouldn't want to employ a person that either is either physically or mentally absent a significant time of the working day.
    If you don't want to support this, there is an easy way out: Don't apply at such a company.
    Be assured that a company will overthink such strategies if they are running out of qualified personnel because of overly restrictive employment-policies.

  • PrincessMel72
    PrincessMel72 Posts: 1,094 Member
    My company does this as well. It has lowered our rates for health insurance DRAMATICALLY and it keeps our employees from taking 100 smoke breaks during the day. It also attracts healthier candidates (we're a tech company so recruit a lot of younger folks). We do a wellness fair annually and participate in weight loss challenges throughout the year. Overall, we saved our employees 23% on health insurance premiums. I think it's a great thing! Plus, if you're sensitive to tobacco, you don't have to worry about your coworkers coming in smelling of it.
  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,508 Member
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    I'll stop smoking cigars, when you take them from my cold, dead fingers.

    erw0vmidjnpv.png

    Ok...and? You'll still smell like cigar smoke and I can't imagine your lungs (among other organs) will thank you. Of course it's not as if riding motorcycles is especially safe either.

    I'll keep on not smoking. Better for my health, my bank account, and the health and wellbeing of those around me.

    Personal choice. I've never smoked a cigarette and you don't inhale cigars. At least I don't. Also, I don't smoke at work. Only when I am with the guys I ride with or when I am hiking. I'm aware some people don't like the smell of cigars. My wife does does though. I usually smell of cigars, bourbon and BBQ. Have a nice day.

    I usually smell like fear, regret and loathing. *shrug
  • zamirasoni
    zamirasoni Posts: 89 Member
    I guess there are really *kitten* places to work for out there. My job does not care and I appreciate that. My husband's job cares but it only does positive enforcement, like insurance discount for getting your blood work done. Just for taking the blood test, independent of the results. Good luck to everyone with a crummy job.
  • Ketch_22
    Ketch_22 Posts: 12,711 Member
    What silly comments lol my friend eats too many twinkies and she's 350 pounds and has to take meds to control, or my other friend has unprotected sex and is giving birth to her 12th kid, both are strains, so given those all are all legal things should companies be allowed to test for pregnancy or diabetes or obesity? Make smoking illegal and then you have a discussion. Perhaps companies should only hire statistically intelligent nationalities or people who have a gym membership. Stop believing the crap put out there, any right taken away is another rung up the ladder to your compliance. Enjoy your supremacist future...
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,498 Member
    edited June 2019
    zamirasoni wrote: »
    I guess there are really *kitten* places to work for out there. My job does not care and I appreciate that. My husband's job cares but it only does positive enforcement, like insurance discount for getting your blood work done. Just for taking the blood test, independent of the results. Good luck to everyone with a crummy job.

    So not forcing one's office mates to smell stale cigarette smoke all day makes someplace a *kitten* place to work?

    Guess what, if one chooses not to get their blood work and has to pay more that is a punishment, i.e. negative reinforcement. Some worthless HR consultant is trying to convince people its a reward and benefit.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    I'll stop smoking cigars, when you take them from my cold, dead fingers.

    erw0vmidjnpv.png

    Ok...and? You'll still smell like cigar smoke and I can't imagine your lungs (among other organs) will thank you. Of course it's not as if riding motorcycles is especially safe either.

    I suppose life isn't safe..... No-one here gets out alive.

    Cigar Smoking seems like one of the more benign habits one could have & if it's part of a social scene & enjoyable, even better.

    As for motorcycles. Dangerous? Yeah, sure.. I guess, but 'so what?'..... life choices.
    Epidemiologists and other people who work in public health are certainly concerned with the "but so what?...life choices". I'd also like to think that at least some of us who don't work in public health do actually care about it, regardless of whether or not it effects us.

    Yes, we all take risks - to think that you're immune to them, however, is a different matter.

    Were did anyone say that we are immune to risks?

    Do you really want to lead a risk free life?

    .... Or are we just discussing degrees of risk?

    .... Or risks that make you personally uncomfortable ?

    Please just don't place your values on others who don't, because frankly, where does it end?

    (for the record, I don't ride motorcycles, smoke cigars (or anything else), do drugs, or drink alcohol etc..... just not my thing.)

    What is the end game?

    More laws?

    More restrictions on personal freedoms? ..... just so others feel better about their choices in life ?
    It appears that quite a lot of I've said has gone way over your head. That and you're reading more into what I wrote than I (potentially) read into what TheRoadDog wrote. I could vear down your path of "personal freedoms vs laws" but it's simply not worth it. I'm not willing to entertain that topic with you right now.
  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,508 Member
    edited June 2019
    aokoye wrote: »
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    I'll stop smoking cigars, when you take them from my cold, dead fingers.

    erw0vmidjnpv.png

    Ok...and? You'll still smell like cigar smoke and I can't imagine your lungs (among other organs) will thank you. Of course it's not as if riding motorcycles is especially safe either.

    I suppose life isn't safe..... No-one here gets out alive.

    Cigar Smoking seems like one of the more benign habits one could have & if it's part of a social scene & enjoyable, even better.

    As for motorcycles. Dangerous? Yeah, sure.. I guess, but 'so what?'..... life choices.
    Epidemiologists and other people who work in public health are certainly concerned with the "but so what?...life choices". I'd also like to think that at least some of us who don't work in public health do actually care about it, regardless of whether or not it effects us.

    Yes, we all take risks - to think that you're immune to them, however, is a different matter.

    That's cool, no worries.

    It's just what you typed earlier that had me wondering.

    If it doesn't affect you, then why worry about the behaviors that were discussed ?

    .... and no, nothing you said went over my head and it was a nice try at an insult, but your previous post speaks for itself.




    .
  • zamirasoni
    zamirasoni Posts: 89 Member
    @Theoldguy1 It's ok if you love to get your rights trampled on. Stay at your *kitten* job. I like the right to choose how to live my life and as long they are not blowing smoke on my face.. Smokers can do whatever they want.
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    Cut for brevity
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    Let's look at cigar smoking....

    Are you going to ban cigar smoking in public?

    Why? Because it offends your delicate sensibilities?

    Or it an issue of expanding healthcare costs ?
    ( and the political power and control grab that comes along for the ride.)
    Or because of the effects of secondhand smoke? Mind you the "are you going to ban...?" isn't really a question in various places globally. The are plenty of countries and cities where smoking in places like restaurants (which are considered public) is not legal. I suppose you could make the health care cost claim (though these bans aren't unique to countries with exceedingly high costs of healthcare), but there's also that whole public health piece.
  • Theoldguy1
    Theoldguy1 Posts: 2,498 Member
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    zamirasoni wrote: »
    I guess there are really *kitten* places to work for out there. My job does not care and I appreciate that. My husband's job cares but it only does positive enforcement, like insurance discount for getting your blood work done. Just for taking the blood test, independent of the results. Good luck to everyone with a crummy job.

    So not forcing one's office mates to smell stale cigarette smoke all day makes someplace a *kitten* place to work?


    My two cents....

    If a company doesn't want to hire smokers, fine; don't hire smokers.

    If you want to smoke, smoke. ( Odds are, you'll be saving Social Security with an early death; Thank You. )

    If the smell of cigarette smoke on someone's clothing is offensive, that's my problem, not theirs.

    I hate cigarette smoke. It makes me sick to my stomach. I've never smoked a cigarette and I never will. But if I'm in public and someone rolls up next to me smoking, I don't act like a little *kittten*, I just move away from the smoke.

    If I hated working at a job where a co-worker's cigarette smoke was overbearing, I wouldn't report him/her to H.R. Instead, I would just man-up and mention it to them.

    On the topic of motorcycles, I wouldn't ride one (nor have I ever). Heck, riding a bicycle is scary enough and yes, I've been clipped a couple of times by cars (their fault, not mine). If you ride long enough, something negative is bound to happen. If you want to ride a motorcycle, ride a motorcycle.... just don't expect me to pay for your funeral.

    The end question on both of these topics is: ' What to do about them ? '

    Let's look at cigar smoking....

    Are you going to ban cigar smoking in public?

    Why? Because it offends your delicate sensibilities?

    Or it an issue of expanding healthcare costs ?
    ( and the political power and control grab that comes along for the ride.)


    Then next, do you ban cigar smoking on one's private property?

    ... In their own home ? Completely? Slippery Slope.


    What vice ( I use the term loosely ) comes after that?


    .... and after that ??




    To be honest, I could give a *kitten* if someone smells like an ashtray around me. My point was, IMO, outlawing smoking for employees doesn't make someplace a *kitten* place to work
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
    aokoye wrote: »
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    aokoye wrote: »
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    I'll stop smoking cigars, when you take them from my cold, dead fingers.

    erw0vmidjnpv.png

    Ok...and? You'll still smell like cigar smoke and I can't imagine your lungs (among other organs) will thank you. Of course it's not as if riding motorcycles is especially safe either.

    I'll keep on not smoking. Better for my health, my bank account, and the health and wellbeing of those around me.

    Personal choice. I've never smoked a cigarette and you don't inhale cigars. At least I don't. Also, I don't smoke at work. Only when I am with the guys I ride with or when I am hiking. I'm aware some people don't like the smell of cigars. My wife does does though. I usually smell of cigars, bourbon and BBQ. Have a nice day.

    I'm just not understanding the "I'm going to tell you multiple times that I'm going to do what!" it reminds me of a defiant child or teenager. You are in charge of your actions and you can (or can't) live with the consequences of them. Why you think it's important to post multiple pictures of you in reference to smoking is mind boggling to me but such is life, I've seen worse and wonder about more interesting/pressing things.

    As far as how healthy or not cigars are, a really quick google search brings up these links from the CDC and NIH (among others):
    https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/tobacco_industry/cigars/index.htm
    https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/tobacco/cigars-fact-sheet

    Don't know why we had to make it personal. I withdraw.
  • josh250to180
    josh250to180 Posts: 36 Member
    Lots of kittens being thrown around here.

    Poor kittens.
  • pinuplove
    pinuplove Posts: 12,871 Member
    josh2452180 wrote: »
    Lots of kittens being thrown around here.

    Poor kittens.

    Kitten abuse!

    (Or profanity filter, take your pick.)
  • lalepepper
    lalepepper Posts: 447 Member
    edited June 2019
    No one seems to have mentioned that this also cuts out people who have quit smoking but are using NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) or vaping to quit or stay off cigarettes. The huge net cast by these policies does not take that in to consideration. Assuming anyone with nicotine in their system is a smoker is ridiculous in this day and age. I can see wanting to prevent exposure to smells, but policy and no-smoking on premises rules can address this. I have Tourette’s and haven’t smoked in years. NRT helps me on bad tic days to stay in control and keep my pain from mounting. I’d be denied a job under these policies despite not being a smoker!
  • aokoye
    aokoye Posts: 3,495 Member
    lalepepper wrote: »
    No one seems to have mentioned that this also cuts out people who have quit smoking but are using NRT (nicotine replacement therapy) or vaping to quit or stay off cigarettes. The huge net cast by these policies does not take that in to consideration. Assuming anyone with nicotine in their system is a smoker is ridiculous in this day and age. I can see wanting to prevent exposure to smells, but policy and no-smoking on premises rules can address this. I have Tourette’s and haven’t smoked in years. NRT helps me on bad tic days to stay in control and keep my pain from mounting. I’d be denied a job under these policies despite not being a smoker!
    If you were in the US, I suspect that would be covered under the ADA. I mean you would have to have the energy and resources to fight it if it came up which is a bear and then some, but I would assume that'd be an ADA issue.
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