Everything in Moderation?

SnicciFit
SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
in Food and Nutrition
That piece of advice has always bothered me a little. I think the Hartwigs hit the nail on the head with this:

http://whole9life.com/2013/08/moderation/
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Replies

  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,243 Member
    You mean by stating the obvious......don't eat foods you're allergic to or to which you have sensitivities?

    of course, the whole point of their web site is to sell whatever their miraculous secret is for a one time fee of $14.95
  • Velum_cado
    Velum_cado Posts: 1,608 Member
    Wow, what a crock.
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    You mean by stating the obvious......don't eat foods you're allergic to or to which you have sensitivities?

    of course, the whole point of their web site is to sell whatever their miraculous secret is for a one time fee of $14.95

    There really isn't a miraculous secret. They did write a book, but about 99% of the stuff in the book is also on the website for free. The book goes a little more in depth. And no, I mean that for some people, some foods shouldn't be eaten even in moderation (even without the allergies/sensitives). What exactly is moderation? As they say, it's too abstract. Too "fluffy."
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    Wow, what a crock.

    What are you referring to?
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,243 Member
    You mean by stating the obvious......don't eat foods you're allergic to or to which you have sensitivities?

    of course, the whole point of their web site is to sell whatever their miraculous secret is for a one time fee of $14.95

    There really isn't a miraculous secret. They did write a book, but about 99% of the stuff in the book is also on the website for free. The book goes a little more in depth. And no, I mean that for some people, some foods shouldn't be eaten even in moderation (even without the allergies/sensitives). What exactly is moderation? As they say, it's too abstract. Too "fluffy."

    How is it abstract? if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions. The only thing "fluffy" is their approach to separating me from my money.......
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
    I liked the article which probably isn't surprising considering I eat a diet that seems to horrify most. But this line at the end really rang true for me:

    "as long as you are making a conscious, deliberate, honest-with-yourself desicion each and every time you choose to indulge."

    That's in it in a nutshell for me -- if I indulge too often it stops being a choice and becomes a compulsion I give in to. I'm much happier eating food I really love everyday and saving the other foods I really love as a treat or to celebrate and mark special occasions with. I like having a normal appetite and knowing that when I feel hungry I'm actually hungry too much to ever go back.
  • Quinnstinct
    Quinnstinct Posts: 274 Member
    "if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions"



    This doesn't work for everyone. Health isn't just calories in calories out. If it's good for you, great!
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    "if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions"



    This doesn't work for everyone. Health isn't just calories in calories out. If it's good for you, great!

    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
    When a person is malnourished from poor diet, "moderation" is impossible. If your body needs nutrients and is not getting them, the signal to eat continues and continues, and excessive fat is stored instead of burned. Our body has complex survival mechanisms which we are not easily able to over-ride and for good reason. Some people are able to "eat anything in moderation"; however, that is not true for ALL people especially if they have been malnourished for most of their life. I'm more than a little frustrated with people on MFP that parrot the over-simplification of biological processes that we have been fed by the media, health/food/pharma industries, and our governments. Every research program (that i am aware of) that has studied calorie restricted diets over a long period show that they are a fail for sustainable, permanent weight loss. Some people can force "moderation' for awhile, but more often than not, go back to "over-eating" sooner or later.
  • KarenJanine
    KarenJanine Posts: 3,498 Member


    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    Why not? I love this quote I've stolen from Sarauk2sf's profile "once our nutrient needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food" - Eric Helms
  • clairemarie1016
    clairemarie1016 Posts: 44 Member
    Everything in moderation, including moderation.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    When a person is malnourished from poor diet, "moderation" is impossible. If your body needs nutrients and is not getting them, the signal to eat continues and continues, and excessive fat is stored instead of burned. Our body has complex survival mechanisms which we are not easily able to over-ride and for good reason. Some people are able to "eat anything in moderation"; however, that is not true for ALL people especially if they have been malnourished for most of their life. I'm more than a little frustrated with people on MFP that parrot the over-simplification of biological processes that we have been fed by the media, health/food/pharma industries, and our governments. Every research program (that i am aware of) that has studied calorie restricted diets over a long period show that they are a fail for sustainable, permanent weight loss. Some people can force "moderation' for awhile, but more often than not, go back to "over-eating" sooner or later.

    Lol, so in a deficit you'd be storing lots of excess fat?

    Hmmmm what's this?

    http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    When a person is malnourished from poor diet, "moderation" is impossible. If your body needs nutrients and is not getting them, the signal to eat continues and continues, and excessive fat is stored instead of burned. Our body has complex survival mechanisms which we are not easily able to over-ride and for good reason. Some people are able to "eat anything in moderation"; however, that is not true for ALL people especially if they have been malnourished for most of their life. I'm more than a little frustrated with people on MFP that parrot the over-simplification of biological processes that we have been fed by the media, health/food/pharma industries, and our governments. Every research program (that i am aware of) that has studied calorie restricted diets over a long period show that they are a fail for sustainable, permanent weight loss. Some people can force "moderation' for awhile, but more often than not, go back to "over-eating" sooner or later.

    Lol, so in a deficit you'd be storing lots of excess fat?

    Hmmmm what's this?

    http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/

    I think she was referring to a nutrient deficit, not a calorie deficit. Big difference, no?
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    When a person is malnourished from poor diet, "moderation" is impossible. If your body needs nutrients and is not getting them, the signal to eat continues and continues, and excessive fat is stored instead of burned. Our body has complex survival mechanisms which we are not easily able to over-ride and for good reason. Some people are able to "eat anything in moderation"; however, that is not true for ALL people especially if they have been malnourished for most of their life. I'm more than a little frustrated with people on MFP that parrot the over-simplification of biological processes that we have been fed by the media, health/food/pharma industries, and our governments. Every research program (that i am aware of) that has studied calorie restricted diets over a long period show that they are a fail for sustainable, permanent weight loss. Some people can force "moderation' for awhile, but more often than not, go back to "over-eating" sooner or later.

    Lol, so in a deficit you'd be storing lots of excess fat?

    Hmmmm what's this?

    http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/

    I think she was referring to a nutrient deficit, not a calorie deficit. Big difference, no?

    http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.abstract
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    ^ Gained a ton of fat
  • jenn26point2
    jenn26point2 Posts: 429 Member
    I've followed their plan countless times and have given them zero dollars as have hundreds of other people. And it works. When I step away from their plan, my joint pain comes back, my stomach/gut hurts constantly, and I get headaches. When I follow their plan, I feel like I can move mountains. Their plan is simply paleo, less sweeteners, alcohol and dairy (if your version of paleo allows dairy). It's through their program that I learned I'm intolerant to dairy. Thank you, Dallas and Melissa!

    The moderation argument drives me just as nuts. Sure... eat your milk chocolate loaded up with artificial ingredients and soy bi-products. Or your diet coke with it's disgusting list of chemicals. And enjoy the bloat that comes from eating grains. I'll stick to what the Whole9 recommends b/c it makes me feel good - whether the general populace agrees with their research or not. I may or may not live longer than you as a result, but I bet I'll feel better on a daily basis than I did before. :)
  • jenn26point2
    jenn26point2 Posts: 429 Member
    Their argument isn't that you can't lose weight when you indulge. Their argument is that you won't reach maximum health by indulging in the foods that have been proven to be less than perfectly healthy for humans - i.e. chemicals, grains, legumes, etc, etc, etc.

    Or that if you have a problem with will power (i.e. don't have any or if your will power fails frequently) then moderation is not a solid approach to you reaching your goals. Allergies was only the first section. Did you read it all? :wink:
  • Morninglory81
    Morninglory81 Posts: 1,190 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
    The problem is you put moderation in quotation like there isn't a way to measure if it isn't moderation. Moderation means it fits in your cal goals. If you keep increasing your portion size you are no longer using moderation. It is not that moderation doesn't work, it is that you are unwilling to use moderation.
  • SnicciFit
    SnicciFit Posts: 967 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
    The problem is you put moderation in quotation like there isn't a way to measure if it isn't moderation. Moderation means it fits in your cal goals. If you keep increasing your portion size you are no longer using moderation. It is not that moderation doesn't work, it is that you are unwilling to use moderation.

    You're right. I'm unwilling to use moderation to optimize my health.

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