Everything in Moderation?

2

Replies

  • Birder150
    Birder150 Posts: 677 Member


    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    Why not? I love this quote I've stolen from Sarauk2sf's profile "once our nutrient needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food" - Eric Helms

    Once your nutrient needs are met, shouldn't you stop eating?
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    When a person is malnourished from poor diet, "moderation" is impossible. If your body needs nutrients and is not getting them, the signal to eat continues and continues, and excessive fat is stored instead of burned. Our body has complex survival mechanisms which we are not easily able to over-ride and for good reason. Some people are able to "eat anything in moderation"; however, that is not true for ALL people especially if they have been malnourished for most of their life. I'm more than a little frustrated with people on MFP that parrot the over-simplification of biological processes that we have been fed by the media, health/food/pharma industries, and our governments. Every research program (that i am aware of) that has studied calorie restricted diets over a long period show that they are a fail for sustainable, permanent weight loss. Some people can force "moderation' for awhile, but more often than not, go back to "over-eating" sooner or later.

    Lol, so in a deficit you'd be storing lots of excess fat?

    Hmmmm what's this?

    http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/

    I think she was referring to a nutrient deficit, not a calorie deficit. Big difference, no?

    Also let's assume she's right and not just making things up, why isn't Haiti the most obese country ever? Nutrient deficiency leads to fat storage, right?
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
    Moderation is bad because if you have peanut allergies and eat a moderate amount of peanuts you could die.

    Moderation is bad because people don't have willpower.

    If you're a chronic yo-yo dieter who can't do anything right, buy my product too, please. It totally might work!
  • CyberEd312
    CyberEd312 Posts: 3,536 Member


    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    Why not? I love this quote I've stolen from Sarauk2sf's profile "once our nutrient needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food" - Eric Helms

    Once your nutrient needs are met, shouldn't you stop eating?

    I can hit my nutrient needs some days and still have 800-1000 calories remaining so no, I myself wouldn't stop eating but I may indulge in some discretionary food choices (ie: ice cream, a bag of candied roasted pecans or almonds, a couple snickers bars, etc) to fill my calorie needs for that day...
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member


    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    Why not? I love this quote I've stolen from Sarauk2sf's profile "once our nutrient needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food" - Eric Helms

    Once your nutrient needs are met, shouldn't you stop eating?

    I can hit my nutrient needs some days and still have 800-1000 calories remaining so no, I myself wouldn't stop eating but I may indulge in some discretionary food choices (ie: ice cream, a bag of candied roasted pecans or almonds, a couple snickers bars, etc) to fill my calorie needs for that day...

    OK, but if you have that many cals remaining, then you haven't reached your energy requirements, yet, right? I count energy requirements as a nutritional requirement, thought everybody did.
  • Madame_Goldbricker
    Madame_Goldbricker Posts: 1,625 Member
    The Moderation Solution
    Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.) But for the vast majority of folks, it’s time to ditch the concept of moderation once and for all. Now, we’re not saying you have to be a 100% perfect eater, day in and day out. We just want you to reframe how you enjoy less healthy foods.

    •Eat as little as you have to, as infrequently as you can, to satisfy that desire. Understand that the less you eat, and the less often you choose to indulge, the healthier you will be. Some weeks, you may not eat these less healthy foods at all. Other weeks, you may eat them every day. Both are okay, as long as you are making a conscious, deliberate, honest-with-yourself desicion each and every time you choose to indulge.



    Moderation : Meaning

    Noun
    1.The avoidance of excess or extremes, esp. in one's behavior.
    2.The action of making something less extreme, intense.

    Synonyms
    temperance - restraint - modesty

    So erm, basically the advice in the article is applying moderation. Without using the word moderation? OK! :huh:
  • AlongCame_Molly
    AlongCame_Molly Posts: 2,835 Member
    Biggest piece of misinformed, self-serving quackery I've ever read. This is nothing more than a cop-out for lazy people who have no control over their urges.

    We all have a "finite tank" of willpower? Bullcrap. Willpower is like a muscle or skill; the more you use it, the stronger it gets. It does not run out or become exhausted.

    "Moderation works for very few people"? More bullcrap. Myself, my family, everyone on my friends list, and thousands of others here on MFP and in the world all disagree. Oh, and adding "you know this to be true" does not automatically MAKE it true. The author of this retarded article needs a refresher course in persuasive speaking, as well as basic logic.

    And OBVIOUSLY no one is saying "peanuts in moderation are ok" if you are in fact ALLERGIC to peanuts. This author is pulling ridiculous, far-reaching arguments out of thin air to make themselves feel better about their own inability to stop stuffing chocolate down their throats after one or two pieces.

    To the writer of the article: If you personally are not capable of cutting yourself off after a reasonable serving of chocolate cake, if you honestly CANNOT put that bottle of wine away without finishing it off, if you truly are not able to box up the rest of the cheesecake for later, fine. But admit that you have self-control problems and deal with them on your own time, and stop trying to convince the rest of the world that moderation is an undoable, impossible concept. Because hundreds of thousands of the rest of the adult world do it every day. Grow up.
  • CyberEd312
    CyberEd312 Posts: 3,536 Member


    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    Why not? I love this quote I've stolen from Sarauk2sf's profile "once our nutrient needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food" - Eric Helms

    Once your nutrient needs are met, shouldn't you stop eating?

    I can hit my nutrient needs some days and still have 800-1000 calories remaining so no, I myself wouldn't stop eating but I may indulge in some discretionary food choices (ie: ice cream, a bag of candied roasted pecans or almonds, a couple snickers bars, etc) to fill my calorie needs for that day...

    OK, but if you have that many cals remaining, then you haven't reached your energy requirements, yet, right? I count energy requirements as a nutritional requirement, thought everybody did.

    No that is taking into account my energy requirements, I workout hard 6 days a week (1 rest day a week) and am a firm believer in fueling my body for the demands I ask of it.... I am maintaining at 4000 calories a day for the last 9 months and fill my caloric and macro needs with whole foods, lean meats, and grains but like I said once I hit my target nutrient needs then I will fill in my caloric intake with more calorie dense foods that i may want... Learning moderation was key to my success, when I weighed 560 lbs, I was consuming over 10,000 a day mindlessly eating just to eat.... I had to use abstinence in the beginning from those foods that triggered my over consumptions but I also went to therapy to learn how to deal with my food addictions and over time I started adding those foods back into my life so that they no longer had control over me and that I was the one in control and can use moderation to enjoy some of the things I use to eat....
  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    "if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions"



    This doesn't work for everyone. Health isn't just calories in calories out. If it's good for you, great!

    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    yes it does.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    "if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions"



    This doesn't work for everyone. Health isn't just calories in calories out. If it's good for you, great!

    Good point. "Moderation" might work for weight loss, but not so much for health.

    yes it does.

    Agreed. If you have to cut back on things like sweets, fried foods, etc....what do you think you'd have to learn to eat? Less calorie dense foods like vegetables, fruits, and so on. So moderation can encourage being "healthy".

    And many people report great numbers from their blood work while still eating foods that many consider junk..but in moderation.
  • Achrya
    Achrya Posts: 16,913 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.

    ...That's not moderation though? At the point where your portion sizes become bigger than needed you've stopped using moderation. So. Not sure what you're saying.
  • _SABOTEUR_
    _SABOTEUR_ Posts: 6,833 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.

    And excluding food groups entirely is a healthier relationship with food?

    TROLOLOLOL.
  • LoraF83
    LoraF83 Posts: 15,694 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
    The problem is you put moderation in quotation like there isn't a way to measure if it isn't moderation. Moderation means it fits in your cal goals. If you keep increasing your portion size you are no longer using moderation. It is not that moderation doesn't work, it is that you are unwilling to use moderation.

    You're right. I'm unwilling to use moderation to optimize my health.

    I'm sorry that you had a problem with maintaining moderate choices. But, I'm guessing that if you had trouble with that, you'll have trouble maintaining use of the Whole9 plan as well.

    A program only works as well as your commitment to it.
  • klaff411
    klaff411 Posts: 169 Member
    I think this is good advice for people who don't really have a weight problem. But the body is a machine and there are certain mathematical and chemical factors which (no matter what hocus pocus you believe in) still work. A caloric deficit (i.e. taking less than you burn) will always work unless you have an underlying medical issue. That also has to be accompanied by a CARB deficit as well. If you do both consistently (over a period of 14 days or more to go beyond water loss) it will work.

    But the body fights against weight loss due to evolutionary factors. Its not that a deficit doesn't work. Most people don't get the results they want because they do it for a week or two. That isn't enough time.
  • Danabug2
    Danabug2 Posts: 6 Member
    I have been reading this thread and for those that have that perfect healthy diet I applaud you and wonder why you are overweight in the first place. It has taken me many years to finally reach a point where the time was right and I am finally recording my foods. I am using portion control as a first step, but know I will and already have been making better choices as I go, but moderation truly is the place that many of us have to start. I won't live my life not having some of the foods that may not be considered healthy, but I will work to make my lifestyle healthier while enjoying everything I can, in moderation of course :)
  • LiftAllThePizzas
    LiftAllThePizzas Posts: 17,857 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
    Moderation is not a result of luck, it's a result of practice.
  • KarenJanine
    KarenJanine Posts: 3,497 Member
    I think far too often it is over looked that all round health is not only being physically healthy but also being mentally healthy. Being able to have a healthy relationship with food is a large part of all round health.

    Depriving myself of food I enjoy, social occasions involving food and drink and spending too long stressing about what is right and wrong to eat, I may have a healthy body but not a healthy mind.
  • glin23
    glin23 Posts: 460 Member
    I think far too often it is over looked that all round health is not only being physically healthy but also being mentally healthy. Being able to have a healthy relationship with food is a large part of all round health.

    Depriving myself of food I enjoy, social occasions involving food and drink and spending too long stressing about what is right and wrong to eat, I may have a healthy body but not a healthy mind.

    While I'm definitely in the "everything in moderation" club, I think this a great point. A point in fact that I think I may have been neglecting over the past few weeks. To me, yes, watching what we eat is absolutely important, but also keeping ourselves mentally and emotionally healthy is important too. Sometimes that means we just don't care and splurge. To me, havig a healthy relationship doesn't mean we don't get to enjoy live. After all, if it is a long journey, we have to allow ourselves to let go once in a while.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,393 Member
    if your goal is to lose weight you have a caloric limit that you want to work within, all it takes is paying attention to portions.

    That doesn't work for everybody. Sure it works for a while, but then the foods that you have been eating "moderately" (whatever that means) start to creep in more & more...and then it's no longer working. For me, anyway. And apparently several others. Like the piece says:

    "Now, if you’re one of those folks for which “moderation” works just fine, then you’re lucky. (And you’re probably not trolling the internet looking for diet advice, or reading this article looking for guidance.)"

    I used to think that was the way to do it. Just portion sizes. And sure, I did lose weight, but I didn't get any "healthier" physically or in my relationship with food. Nor did I keep the weight off.
    Then it doesn't work for you. Personally I've done it for over 30 years now...................and still going.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • shadus
    shadus Posts: 424 Member
    Everything in moderation is a sane and healthy way to eat that is maintainable for most people.

    The problem comes when people aren't eating in moderation, they're eating everything in huge quantities.

    Edit: Nice website sales pitch there though. Think I'll pass on their diet plan/pills though.