No idea how to approach my plateau

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Ruoja
Ruoja Posts: 7 Member
in Food and Nutrition
So I've been cutting since the beginning of this year. For the last 10 weeks I followed a strict schedule with great effects. I'm 182cm tall and weighted 84kg at start. Started my diet with 2400 calories per day and heavy weight training 3x a week (my maintenance was about 2800). After a month I dropped to 2000 calories per day and added 15minutes of HIIT training at the end of each work out. Also moved onto intermittent fasting (16/8h) because I never feel hungry before noon anyways and I can't fall properly asleep if I don't stuff myself right like a pig. So I would drink coffee and water till 2pm, then snack on some fats and proteins and after my workout I would have a big nutritive meal at 8pm before falling into deep coma at 10pm. Also (expect one single day on my best friend birthday) I kept off alcohol completely. I happen to smoke pot from time to time but I make sure to have my planed healthy meal for "munchies" if I ever get them. I lost 8kg! And preserved most of my muscles. I'm way weaker in the gym but still looking more muscular than before my long bulk last year. But my super space traveling scale says I'm 21% bf. It makes sense because despite being in a great V-shape my sixpack is still hidden under a blanket of fat. I really would like to drop at least to 15% before slowly coming out of the deficit. But that's it. My weight won't drop under 76kg although I went already down to 1900 calories and added a 4th workout day. Then I tried refeeding myself by cycling cals (2200 on workout and 1900 on idle). Also tried a week without IF (small snacks every 2h) to boost my metabolism.
This starts to drive me nuts and I'm really about to blow and move on bulk again if nothing changes.

PS
this week I took a week off any activity because I got sick. Some online calculator said my 15% calorie deficit should be 1700 if completely inactive. Is it possible for a male of my size to go so low on calories? It turns on a red light in my mind...

Replies

  • Ruoja
    Ruoja Posts: 7 Member
    edited March 2019
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    @ericirb
    I work 8 to 11h daily, mostly standing and walking and carrying beer crates (liquor store). I workout 4x a week going full berserker with free weights and HIIT to complete (hence the high maintenance). BTW it's not because I'm killing myself to get lean fast. It's just satisfying as hell and I'm addicted! Also I keep recalculating cals whenever my weight changes.

    I do use a kitchen scale and I'm very particular with my portions (everything I eat get barcode scanned and summed up in the myfitnesspal app. I might not be paying enough attention to my macros though. I only care about timing them right but I was going on a low carb plan with 35% fat and 35% protein. And even though I still wouldn't freak out if I didn't get all my carbs and ate some more fat instead (protein always in check). I mesure water in bottles and drink two of them daily (3l/day). I don't think water retention is the problem. I'm not bloated at all, plus my carbs are often super low.

    Maybe it's broscience but I've heard eating frequently gives an additional termogenic effect. I was mainly doing this "refeed" and "more smaller meals" shift because I'm starting to think my stagnation might be a low T, high cortisol issue...

    As to my strength I exaggerated. My squad improved, my deadlift remained the same, only my bench press went dramatically down (22lbs)
  • quiksylver296
    quiksylver296 Posts: 28,442 Member
    edited March 2019
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    Barcode info can be off by up to 20%. Are you weighing barcode stuff, or just scanning?

    For example, the protein powder I used this morning says that a scoop is 34 grams. If I just scanned the barcode, the calorie input into MFP would have been 120 calories. However, I scooped just under a full scoop, and it was 40 grams and 141 calories. If I would have scooped a level scoop, it would have been even more calories probably closer to 160. But scanned barcode would have given me 40 calories less, and I wouldn't have known if I hadn't weighed it.
  • Cassandraw3
    Cassandraw3 Posts: 1,214 Member
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    How long have you been in a plateau?
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    Ruoja wrote: »
    @ericirb
    I work 8 to 11h daily, mostly standing and walking and carrying beer crates (liquor store). I workout 4x a week going full berserker with free weights and HIIT to complete (hence the high maintenance). BTW it's not because I'm killing myself to get lean fast. It's just satisfying as hell and I'm addicted! Also I keep recalculating cals whenever my weight changes.

    I do use a kitchen scale and I'm very particular with my portions (everything I eat get barcode scanned and summed up in the myfitnesspal app. I might not be paying enough attention to my macros though. I only care about timing them right but I was going on a low carb plan with 35% fat and 35% protein. And even though I still wouldn't freak out if I didn't get all my carbs and ate some more fat instead (protein always in check). I mesure water in bottles and drink two of them daily (3l/day). I don't think water retention is the problem. I'm not bloated at all, plus my carbs are often super low.

    Maybe it's broscience but I've heard eating frequently gives an additional termogenic effect. I was mainly doing this "refeed" and "more smaller meals" shift because I'm starting to think my stagnation might be a low T, high cortisol issue...

    As to my strength I exaggerated. My squad improved, my deadlift remained the same, only my bench press went dramatically down (22lbs)

    Okay, that makes sense for your "high" TDEE.

    Meal timing is mostly broscience. it may make that 1% of a difference which may matter at a high-level athletic competition or bodybuilding competition, for 99% of the population it is irrelevant... the thermogenic effect of food comes down to how much and macro content, so if you eat 2000 cals spread out, or all at once it will have pretty much identical caloric burn to digest... meal timing should come down to energy levels and what fits your lifestyle.

    Forgot to ask earlier... what is your sleep pattern like? Sleep and recovery is often overlooked in a training regimen by a lot of people. pushing hard all the time can actually be detrimental. If you have an active job, may want to cut down on the HIIT, that can interfere with recovery, and isn't the be all end all that some make it out to be!
  • Ruoja
    Ruoja Posts: 7 Member
    edited March 2019
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    I weigh everything and adjust the quantity accordingly in the app. This idea of miscalculated calories by people adding stuff to the app also went through my mind. But when I look up in the Internet and all sites have different answers, it's giving me a freaking headache honestly...
    I just try to stay under my number (never eat till the limit).

    As to my plateau, it's started somewhere at the end of February. I was quite stupid and brutal to myself at the very beginning and out of those 20lbs, probably 10lbs were glycogen and water, and only 10lbs were fat after I started doing it the right way.

    Then I dropped calories intake on nontraining days and added the 4th day for about 2 weeks. Then I freaked out I might be messing up my hormones so I went for 5days of only 5% deficit with frequent meals and again slightly dropping calories down till now. (I'm at 2200cals atm).

    Since it would be great to stick to one idea for longer than two weeks to give it any chance to work and yet not waste any time, I would appreciate someone who unlike me did cut with success before to suggest me the right approach to this plateau. I feel like a blind person lost in the desert.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    can mis-estimate cals burned as well, not just issues with cals consumed. If you are not losing on what you calculate a 500 cal deficit, guess what, what you thought was a deficit, is your maintenance. Though I would give an intake 4-6 weeks before making that determination as weight loss is not linear!

    What about your Sleep pattern? that can throw hormones off as inadequate sleep can increase stress levels.
  • Ruoja
    Ruoja Posts: 7 Member
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    @Erickirb I try to sleep 8-9h daily with different outputs. (sometimes I don't have the chance to go to sleep early). But I never go under 6,5-7h (years ago I f*cked up my life super badly with sleep deprivation so it's the first thing I pay attention to.) on days of I allow myself staying late in bed and taking an extra nap of 1hour or 2. My record is 14h...

    Well maybe my maintenance (recently not calculated but displayed by this magical space scale) is lower but... That's my second question: Is it possible for a 6' male to ever go that low? 1700 it's a number I only found in women topics so far.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    typically the lowest suggested for a man is 1500 and a woman is 1200, which should be net. 1500+exercise calories. eating less would make it hard to get adequate fat, protein, and micronutrients.

    Another issue with losing more is that you are already normal weight for your height, to me 6' @167 lbs. is borderline underweight (For instance, I am 5'6" 142 in my profile pic, a little heavier now).

    I would suggest maybe trying a recomposition instead. eat at maintenance, get adequate protein and lift heavy.
  • Ruoja
    Ruoja Posts: 7 Member
    edited March 2019
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    That's why I was in such a hurry! I want to restart bulking ASAP. But keep it esthetic (belly mustn't stick out more than chest! ^^).
    Not a fan of cutting so I would never want to wake up after a bulk and have to cut for years to get my sixpack back yet my primary goal is to grow untill I'm a hulk of course. Especially that I used to look like a gulag survivor. (I used to struggle to have at least 60kg while being 6' tall already).
    If there is a way to decrease my current body fat to 15% or lower while building up to 90kg I'm starting to do it tomorrow!
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,293 Member
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    Ruoja wrote: »
    That's why I was in such a hurry! I want to restart bulking ASAP. But keep it esthetic (belly mustn't stick out more than chest! ^^).
    Not a fan of cutting so I would never want to wake up after a bulk and have to cut for years to get my sixpack back yet my primary goal is to grow untill I'm a hulk of course. Especially that I used to look like a gulag survivor. (I used to struggle to have at least 60kg while being 6' tall already).
    If there is a way to decrease my current body fat to 15% or lower while building up to 90kg I'm starting to do it tomorrow!

    Performance enhancing drugs could aid in that. Not that I am proposing you do that, just that, that is pretty much the only way. Lol

    Maybe look into recomping then, build a bit of muscle, while losing a little fat, while saying around the same weight.

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