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Want to lose weight faster, not count portions and eat until you feel full?
Dilvish
Posts: 398 Member
in Debate Club
The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
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Replies
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Maybe. In the short term all things are possible. Over the long haul, if you can't keto it on out there until the end of time all of the weight can come right back once the rapid and fast weight loss is done.13
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Oddly enough, keto/low carb high fat diets have been around for decades, have been followed by tens of millions of people, and yet most all of them are still overweight. (or dead).27
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This content has been removed.
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What's NOT reported is WHAT TYPE OF WEIGHT is lost. Low carbers/keto dieters carry less water in their bodies overall versus those who consume more carbs. It takes 4 grams of water to store 1 gram of carb in the cells, so obviously the less carbs one consumes, the less water they need for storage. Also ketogenic diets actually affect the muscle mass you keep because the protein one consumes is the main source to help create glucose in the body.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
26 -
If you actually really read the details of the article, you'll see that low carb diets lost more weight (not fat) in short term studies, but in the longer term studies, there was no statistical difference. More weight loss is expected in the short term on low carb diets, becuase glycogen is stored with water, and when you stop storing glyocgen, you lose several pounds of water weight. This isn't fat loss though. If you control for what we know about water weight loss and low carb diets, most of the time they performed about the same or slightly worse than the other diets.
Just spend some more time on this board and you'll see plenty of "I'm doing keto why am I not losing weight" and "I lost x pounds with keto but then I gained it all back" posts. Low carb works well for certain people. But it doesn't for plenty others. Long term weight loss is hard, no matter how you do it, and low carb isn't some magic bullet that will make all your dreams suddenly come true.37 -
I gave you a woo for multiple reasons. Yes, I did read the entire article.The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
1. Multiple assertions that the high carb groups were calorie restricted, but no mentions of how many calories the high fat group was eating. It might well have been fewer calories.
2. No mention of the several lbs of water weight lots of folks initially lose when beginning keto.
3. High carb is not synonymous with low fat. I eat plenty of both carbs and fats.
The exclusion of those bits calls the credibility into question for me.
Caloric intake does matter.
28 -
Actually the science proves nothing of the sort. The source you use is a baised article. Here is a broad based, long term, high quality study of various diet types. They all perform pretty much the same when calories are controlled. Keto has an initial water weight loss. As you move down the timeline, no difference.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763382/?fbclid=IwAR1DFikPeiksul4Px_xeejVyrzqg-fyxUC-BlOm7GpJdlvj04JCl4fiJXo8
Also a position paper from th International Society of Sports Nutrition based on the longer term analysis of multiple studies. Your theory about a metabolic advantage to keto just doesn't hold water.
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0174-y?utm_source=Annie+Bello&utm_campaign=2b20356128-MKT+2017-07-27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_683161ac3a-2b20356128-184210761&mc_cid=2b20356128&mc_eid=49c2323da5Diets focused primarily on FM loss (and weight loss beyond initial reductions in body water) operate under the fundamental mechanism of a sustained caloric deficit. This net hypocaloric balance can either be imposed linearly/daily, or non-linearly over the course of the week. The higher the baseline FM level, the more aggressively the caloric deficit may be imposed
If someone prefers keto and it aids in them being compliant, it is a perfectly valid dietary modality. But, it has absolutely no metabolic advantage over any other modality for weight/fat loss. It all come down to preference and adherence in the final analysis.24 -
OP, I've noticed your posts a lot over the last few days. All basically urging people to go keto. Why do you feel the need? If it's working for you, that's great but it seems like you're trying to gain converts 😁35
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The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?15
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The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
Yes...if you keep logging and staying at maintenance you will be able to maintain. The reason people are sometimes negative about keto is not keto itself it is statements by some ketoers that it is the only way that you can lose weight. People are different. We all react to things differently even a way of eating.
I couldn't do keto because there are many times that if I eat too much fat I don't feel well for a few days. I love pizza but the last time that I ate it I was sick for 2 days...too much fat.
I personally am all for eating to your preferences. If your chosen way brings you the results then I am happy for you. How you eat doesn't affect my life.16 -
The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
I don't think there's any negativity here. When someone basically spouts that one way of eating is superior to all others without definitive proof of that claim, some wise members will write about the untrue aspects of that claim.
No one is saying that keto won't work long term for you. But it is not the wonder diet that the OP constantly claims.23 -
The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
If you keep staying in an appropriate calorie range you will be able to maintain.9 -
That article has been around for years. If you actually read the studies (which I have read almost all of them), they all share one major thing in common. It's low carb or keto vs the SAD diet. None of them held protein constant. Not of them were in metabolic wards. Almost all were ad libitum or based on recalls.
What you can take away from this is this: In ad libitum conditions, a person will generally gravitate towards higher protein foods, which can increase TEF and improve metabolism. And often, the reduction in carbs and increases to fats/proteins can improve satiety and potentially increase EE to improve fat/weight loss for a given populous.
Does this mean a LCHF/Keto diet is superior? No. Does it work for some? Yep. Is it right for you? Maybe.
Edited: English can be hard sometimes.13 -
Thank you so much for your responses! I had started to panic a little!9
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I gave you a woo for multiple reasons. Yes, I did read the entire article.The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
1. Multiple assertions that the high carb groups were calorie restricted, but no mentions of how many calories the high fat group was eating. It might well have been fewer calories.
2. No mention of the several lbs of water weight lots of folks initially lose when beginning keto.
3. High carb is not synonymous with low fat. I eat plenty of both carbs and fats.
The exclusion of those bits calls the credibility into question for me.
Caloric intake does matter.
Yeah I went lower carb last month (above keto levels), and I lost 7lbs in a couple weeks. I'm already a lower weight though and it's just not physically possible that I lost a significant amount of fat in that time. Most of it had to be water whoosh. If I started eating a higher carb woe again most of it, if not all of it, would come right back.
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The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
Well, most people fail at long term weight loss adherence, regardless of what plan they follow, so the reality is most people find maintenance impossible to actually do
If you've found a way of eating, regardless of what it is, that you truly enjoy and can follow with minimal fuss then you're already at a much higher chance of succeeding. Don't worry about all the opinions/white noise out there, focus on your own individual experiences and go from there.10 -
The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
It's not negativity to keto so much as it's negativity to the assertion that keto is the most effective, healthiest diet for everyone.
Having said that, keto is a relatively restrictive diet, and I think concern that many people won't be able to stick to it long term is logical. But if you can stay at the right calorie level, you will maintain your weight loss, regardless of how you eat. The problem only surfaces if you lose weight eating in a way you don't really like or find practical, and won't know how to eat at the right calorie level if you go back to eating in a more traditional way.
Honestly I think that's the downfall of most diets. IMHO the key is finding a way to eat that is practical and enjoyable for you personally that helps you eat at the right calorie level and maintain a healthy activity level.
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The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
Congratulations on your loss so far. When you transition to maintenance, is your plan to continue doing keto, or to maintain by simply keeping within your calories but reintroducing carbs into your diet? If it is the latter, a couple of things to consider.
1. As you've seen in the comments, quite a few of us have talked about the water weight loss that you get from keto. If you reintroduce carbs, you can expect to gain that back. Now as you have lost 50 pounds, most of that is clearly fat loss, so you will not gain that back by going off of Keto. There's no way to predict exactly the water weight bump you will get. My guess is between 5-10 pounds would be reasonable. So expect to see that but it doesn't mean that you are going to gain back anywhere close to the 50 as long as you continue to maintain your calories.
2. Habits you are developing for maintenance. One of the things that successful long term weight losers do is teach themselves tools for maintenance during weight loss. If you are doing keto now but plan to transition off of it, how well will the tools you have learned transfer over to non-keto weight loss? It's certainly something to be cognizant of as you change your habits, to make sure you don't find your appetite creeping ups in ways you weren't prepared for and it being hard to keep in your calorie limit.
Those two things being said, it is certainly possible to maintain a keto driven loss, whether you stay on Keto long term or not. As others have mentioned, we are not inherently against it here. We are against the exaggerated claims that come along with it that are pushed by certain supporters of it. Those claims make some people feel as if keto is the only way they can lose weight, and push a lot of people towards keto who are not necessarily the best suited for it or who don't enjoy it because they feel like there are no other options.
We tend to support all ways of eating (as long as they are not overly calorie restrictive) as a personal choice for dieters. We just want to make sure that everything is fact based.13 -
Of course it would. But no one else is touting another diet as the Best New Thing Evah!
Context is key.
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I eat a keto diet...... Because I feel best on it (blood sugar issues)
I don't care how anyone else eats because it's none of my business
If we all stick to our personal calorie deficits we we all lose the weight we wish to as at the the end of the day a calorie deficit is all that matters in weight loss16 -
I gave you a woo for multiple reasons. Yes, I did read the entire article.The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
1. Multiple assertions that the high carb groups were calorie restricted, but no mentions of how many calories the high fat group was eating. It might well have been fewer calories.
2. No mention of the several lbs of water weight lots of folks initially lose when beginning keto.
3. High carb is not synonymous with low fat. I eat plenty of both carbs and fats.
The exclusion of those bits calls the credibility into question for me.
Caloric intake does matter.
Yeah I went lower carb last month (above keto levels), and I lost 7lbs in a couple weeks. I'm already a lower weight though and it's just not physically possible that I lost a significant amount of fat in that time. Most of it had to be water whoosh. If I started eating a higher carb woe again most of it, if not all of it, would come right back.
Absolutely. I tried low carb a few years ago and had what I now know to be a massive water loss that first couple of weeks. I had no idea about actual fat loss back then, and my guess is that's exactly what 'studies' like this one bank on.
That said, I loved the menu lol, it just wasn't sustainable for me due to my greater love for carbs. 5 -
I gave you a woo for multiple reasons. Yes, I did read the entire article.The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
1. Multiple assertions that the high carb groups were calorie restricted, but no mentions of how many calories the high fat group was eating. It might well have been fewer calories.
2. No mention of the several lbs of water weight lots of folks initially lose when beginning keto.
3. High carb is not synonymous with low fat. I eat plenty of both carbs and fats.
The exclusion of those bits calls the credibility into question for me.
Caloric intake does matter.
Yeah I went lower carb last month (above keto levels), and I lost 7lbs in a couple weeks. I'm already a lower weight though and it's just not physically possible that I lost a significant amount of fat in that time. Most of it had to be water whoosh. If I started eating a higher carb woe again most of it, if not all of it, would come right back.
Absolutely. I tried low carb a few years ago and had what I now know to be a massive water loss that first couple of weeks. I had no idea about actual fat loss back then, and my guess is that's exactly what 'studies' like this one bank on.
That said, I loved the menu lol, it just wasn't sustainable for me due to my greater love for carbs.
My carb target is around 100g and I've found that gives me quite a bit of wiggle room. I still eat things like fruit, grains, ice cream and dairy, we eat out a couple times a week etc. I think a very low carb/keto woe would be challenging, over the long term, but once you start getting in the 75g+ range it gives room for a lot of different foods.
I've only been experimenting with lower carb for about a month, so way to early to tell if I'll stick with it long term, but I've found it surprisingly easy and I'm enjoying it so far 3 -
I gave you a woo for multiple reasons. Yes, I did read the entire article.The science/studies prove it. If you read this article in it's entirety you will see that a Keto/low carb high fat diet is the clear winner... perhaps this article alone can help you win the battle against unwanted pounds...
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
1. Multiple assertions that the high carb groups were calorie restricted, but no mentions of how many calories the high fat group was eating. It might well have been fewer calories.
2. No mention of the several lbs of water weight lots of folks initially lose when beginning keto.
3. High carb is not synonymous with low fat. I eat plenty of both carbs and fats.
The exclusion of those bits calls the credibility into question for me.
Caloric intake does matter.
Yeah I went lower carb last month (above keto levels), and I lost 7lbs in a couple weeks. I'm already a lower weight though and it's just not physically possible that I lost a significant amount of fat in that time. Most of it had to be water whoosh. If I started eating a higher carb woe again most of it, if not all of it, would come right back.
Absolutely. I tried low carb a few years ago and had what I now know to be a massive water loss that first couple of weeks. I had no idea about actual fat loss back then, and my guess is that's exactly what 'studies' like this one bank on.
That said, I loved the menu lol, it just wasn't sustainable for me due to my greater love for carbs.
My carb target is around 100g and I've found that gives me quite a bit of wiggle room. I still eat things like fruit, grains, ice cream and dairy, we eat out a couple times a week etc. I think a very low carb/keto woe would be challenging, over the long term, but once you start getting in the 75g+ range it gives room for a lot of different foods.
I've only been experimenting with lower carb for about a month, so way to early to tell if I'll stick with it long term, but I've found it surprisingly easy and I'm enjoying it so far
Ah, that's a correction for me lol. I should have said "lower carb". Mine were in the same general ballpark as yours, and yes, it did make a world of difference. I don't think I would last long on pure keto. 1 -
OP, I've noticed your posts a lot over the last few days. All basically urging people to go keto. Why do you feel the need? If it's working for you, that's great but it seems like you're trying to gain converts 😁
Not only that but I’ve noticed that this poster never engages in discussion with people who wish to discuss/debate the points he or she is attempting to make. Just drops the assertions in a single post and doesn’t seem to return to the thread. I was hopeful that since this is a post and not just a comment that this time may be different because I too am interested to learn why some keto followers feel the need to assign magical benefits to the diet in order to convince others to try - without just posting facts and saying “it can be as good as any other diet if a person enjoys it and can stick with it, but it is not superior and/or necessary to achieve goals”.29 -
Oddly enough, keto/low carb high fat diets have been around for decades, have been followed by tens of millions of people, and yet most all of them are still overweight. (or dead).
Do you have any evidence to back that up or is it just a sweeping statement based on your own opinion? I find it difficult to believe that you have evidence to suggest that 10 million people over the span of the last 100 years (diet introduced in the 1920's).
17 -
What's NOT reported is WHAT TYPE OF WEIGHT is lost. Low carbers/keto dieters carry less water in their bodies overall versus those who consume more carbs. It takes 4 grams of water to store 1 gram of carb in the cells, so obviously the less carbs one consumes, the less water they need for storage. Also ketogenic diets actually affect the muscle mass you keep because the protein one consumes is the main source to help create glucose in the body.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Actually I believe it states the fat loss was usually visceral fat and the muscle loss wasn't considered as long as you were not overeating on your protein levels. I think they also pointed out that this diet is geared more to overweight people and people who have weight related health issues. Not everybody is trying to lose weight and gain muscle16 -
The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
Yes...if you keep logging and staying at maintenance you will be able to maintain. The reason people are sometimes negative about keto is not keto itself it is statements by some ketoers that it is the only way that you can lose weight. People are different. We all react to things differently even a way of eating.
I couldn't do keto because there are many times that if I eat too much fat I don't feel well for a few days. I love pizza but the last time that I ate it I was sick for 2 days...too much fat.
I personally am all for eating to your preferences. If your chosen way brings you the results then I am happy for you. How you eat doesn't affect my life.
Pizza on a keto diet? No, that's not how it works and I suspect that people think that if they start eating mountains of cheese, pepperoni and bacon they will lose weight on a keto diet...well that may be true but pizza contains mostly unhealthy fat and is still loaded with carbs (the crust). The key is healthy fats...
If you eat pizza on a keto diet, it's not keto.28 -
The negativity to keto here scares me a bit. I’ve lost almost 50 lbs so far on a keto like plan. I say keto like because I do keep fats a little low to keep in my calorie goal. Reading some of these comments makes me worry you feel it is impossible to keep the weight off. When I reach maintenance, If I keep logging and staying in calorie range, will I not be able to maintain?
Yes...if you keep logging and staying at maintenance you will be able to maintain. The reason people are sometimes negative about keto is not keto itself it is statements by some ketoers that it is the only way that you can lose weight. People are different. We all react to things differently even a way of eating.
I couldn't do keto because there are many times that if I eat too much fat I don't feel well for a few days. I love pizza but the last time that I ate it I was sick for 2 days...too much fat.
I personally am all for eating to your preferences. If your chosen way brings you the results then I am happy for you. How you eat doesn't affect my life.
Pizza on a keto diet? No, that's not how it works and I suspect that people think that if they start eating mountains of cheese, pepperoni and bacon they will lose weight on a keto diet...well that may be true but pizza contains mostly unhealthy fat and is still loaded with carbs (the crust). The key is healthy fats...
If you eat pizza on a keto diet, it's not keto.
Not surprisingly, you seem to have had a reading comprehension fail on that post.23 -
WinoGelato wrote: »OP, I've noticed your posts a lot over the last few days. All basically urging people to go keto. Why do you feel the need? If it's working for you, that's great but it seems like you're trying to gain converts 😁
Not only that but I’ve noticed that this poster never engages in discussion with people who wish to discuss/debate the points he or she is attempting to make. Just drops the assertions in a single post and doesn’t seem to return to the thread. I was hopeful that since this is a post and not just a comment that this time may be different because I too am interested to learn why some keto followers feel the need to assign magical benefits to the diet in order to convince others to try - without just posting facts and saying “it can be as good as any other diet if a person enjoys it and can stick with it, but it is not superior and/or necessary to achieve goals”.
Another person who missed the point. The information provided showed Keto as a potentially better way of dropping weight for those who are obese or have weight related health issues.
I see a lot of posts from people just starting out who need help and I thought this post may be useful. Instead I'm getting slammed for posting my opinion. I will likely not come back to this board because this whole thread has gotten too negative and it seems that many users simply don't like an opinion other than their own.27
This discussion has been closed.
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