Intermittent fasting

Makaiookami

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

That isn't how it works. Whether you eat 6 meals or 1 meal, if calories are the same, than digestion or nutrient storage times would be the same. With smaller meals, your body will digest then nutrients faster; with large meals it's longer. Overall, there is no difference..

Wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. Ok maybe 80% wrong because digesting nutrients faster could be an issue, but depending on anti-nutrients, and the mineral wheel, which is way too complex to get into, the K1 you absorb from eating something fortified with Folic Acid could block the K2 5MethylFolate that you body spent all that time creating because it had to take K1, turn it into K3, then to K2, and any Folic Acid that bonded, keeps your 5MethylFolate from bonding... Also if you don't eat fats with your Carrots you're not even going to absorb that much Betacarotine ASSUMING you even have the genes for the conversion in the first place and that's assuming you don't have a deficiency in a vitamin that affects the absorption of that nutrient.

I agree that you can not stop gluconeogensis. You can stop eating for a week and at some point your blood sugars will go up and that's your body releasing or creating glucose. It releases glucose in the form of muscle and liver glycogen...

The reason why it's at least 80% wrong is, that every meal you are eating bumps up your insulin. If the goal is burning fat, you do not want your insulin spiked at any point during your workout. You want glucagon spiked instead. You want to spike your insulin post workout, you want lean protein, and possibly some carbs to go anabolic and build up those muscle tissues, and then later do protein and omega 3 fatty acids, and then fast, go into ketosis, increase salt and water intake before the work out to build out those muscles, and rinse and repeat...

For people who are not in good health or in good shape for diabetics they absolutely need to think about doing fasted workouts and low carb afterwards but probably bump up protein to 1.5-2 grams per gram of lean body mass. If you are more than 40 pounds overweight getting that weight off is your number 1 priority, you can get those beginner gains after you've reversed your chronic insulin resistance, and have possibly increased your lifespan by a couple decades.

I don't see a point in trying to balance anabolism and catabolism at the same time. Get to a healthy weight first, then focus on gains and tweak as needed. You'll do so much less damage to your joints, back, cartilage etc anyway and Keto + HIIT with OCCASIONAL intermittent fasting is going to get you there IMO far safer, and while you get to that point you can do research on hypertrophy, endurance, strength training, resistance bands, pre-workouts, post-workouts, fasted workouts, and at least feel like you have some idea of what you're doing in the mean time.

This is my thought process. I might not be perfect on my description, but there is a HUGE difference that meal timing makes and the last thing someone wants to do if they are trying to lose a LOT of weight is eat 6 times all throughout the day. No give your body a chance to reverse your insulin insensitivity, period, that is not up for debate, their body is getting hyper inflamed because of their insulin resistance and the ONLY way that effectively reverses that is not spiking your insulin which means going without eating, or eating a ketotic diet.

You don't need to get abs in time for your funeral. Extend your life, the abs will have more time to be shown off that way.

LegendaryOrange

I've lost 50 pounds eating 6 times a day, sooo....

NovusDies

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

I've lost 50 pounds eating 6 times a day, sooo....

You have lost 50 pounds because of a calorie deficit everything else has been essentially majoring in the minors. Once you have your hunger under control and you have energy when you need it the rest is not really worth thinking about that much except as an intellectual curiosity.

psuLemon

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

I've lost 50 pounds eating 6 times a day, sooo....

Same here, 8 years ago and kept it off. I did that with high carb, moderate protein and fat.

LegendaryOrange

NovusDies wrote: »

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

I've lost 50 pounds eating 6 times a day, sooo....

You have lost 50 pounds because of a calorie deficit everything else has been essentially majoring in the minors. Once you have your hunger under control and you have energy when you need it the rest is not really worth thinking about that much except as an intellectual curiosity.

I agree. Net calorie deficit. That's how 6 meals a day helps me, because I never get so hungry that I go overboard. And I also agree that this conversation is more about 'intellectual curiosity' than major result drivers.

psuLemon

Makaiookami wrote: »

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

That isn't how it works. Whether you eat 6 meals or 1 meal, if calories are the same, than digestion or nutrient storage times would be the same. With smaller meals, your body will digest then nutrients faster; with large meals it's longer. Overall, there is no difference..

Wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. Ok maybe 80% wrong because digesting nutrients faster could be an issue, but depending on anti-nutrients, and the mineral wheel, which is way too complex to get into, the K1 you absorb from eating something fortified with Folic Acid could block the K2 5MethylFolate that you body spent all that time creating because it had to take K1, turn it into K3, then to K2, and any Folic Acid that bonded, keeps your 5MethylFolate from bonding... Also if you don't eat fats with your Carrots you're not even going to absorb that much Betacarotine ASSUMING you even have the genes for the conversion in the first place and that's assuming you don't have a deficiency in a vitamin that affects the absorption of that nutrient.

I agree that you can not stop gluconeogensis. You can stop eating for a week and at some point your blood sugars will go up and that's your body releasing or creating glucose. It releases glucose in the form of muscle and liver glycogen...

The reason why it's at least 80% wrong is, that every meal you are eating bumps up your insulin. If the goal is burning fat, you do not want your insulin spiked at any point during your workout. You want glucagon spiked instead. You want to spike your insulin post workout, you want lean protein, and possibly some carbs to go anabolic and build up those muscle tissues, and then later do protein and omega 3 fatty acids, and then fast, go into ketosis, increase salt and water intake before the work out to build out those muscles, and rinse and repeat...

For people who are not in good health or in good shape for diabetics they absolutely need to think about doing fasted workouts and low carb afterwards but probably bump up protein to 1.5-2 grams per gram of lean body mass. If you are more than 40 pounds overweight getting that weight off is your number 1 priority, you can get those beginner gains after you've reversed your chronic insulin resistance, and have possibly increased your lifespan by a couple decades.

I don't see a point in trying to balance anabolism and catabolism at the same time. Get to a healthy weight first, then focus on gains and tweak as needed. You'll do so much less damage to your joints, back, cartilage etc anyway and Keto + HIIT with OCCASIONAL intermittent fasting is going to get you there IMO far safer, and while you get to that point you can do research on hypertrophy, endurance, strength training, resistance bands, pre-workouts, post-workouts, fasted workouts, and at least feel like you have some idea of what you're doing in the mean time.

This is my thought process. I might not be perfect on my description, but there is a HUGE difference that meal timing makes and the last thing someone wants to do if they are trying to lose a LOT of weight is eat 6 times all throughout the day. No give your body a chance to reverse your insulin insensitivity, period, that is not up for debate, their body is getting hyper inflamed because of their insulin resistance and the ONLY way that effectively reverses that is not spiking your insulin which means going without eating, or eating a ketotic diet.

You don't need to get abs in time for your funeral. Extend your life, the abs will have more time to be shown off that way.

And yet, no studies support increase fat loss through ketogenic diets as compared to high carb. The only ones that do, don't control protein or are not controlled in a lab. Keto and IF, both of which I have done or are current doing, aren't some magic bullet like the youtube videos like you to believe. My fat loss on keto hasn't not been any faster. My energy hasn't been any better, but my strength has suffered, which is an ok sacrifice currently, since I am running this experiment. For me, exercising fasted is the worse thing. It absolutely kills my performance and hinders my ability to fully get through my workouts.

Since I have, and have always had, a normal function pancreas, there has been no need to controls carbs, time nutrients and do anything you suggested during my fat loss journey.

Below is a good article on insulin.

https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/

Makaiookami

NovusDies wrote: »

LegendaryOrange wrote: »

I've lost 50 pounds eating 6 times a day, sooo....

You have lost 50 pounds because of a calorie deficit everything else has been essentially majoring in the minors. Once you have your hunger under control and you have energy when you need it the rest is not really worth thinking about that much except as an intellectual curiosity.

That's not true though. If you under eat and over workout you WILL slow your metabolism.

https://mayooshin.com/biggest-loser-study-maintain-weight-loss/

There's a lot of studies coming out that when the weight is lost on keto diets it stays off much easier.

20-50 pounds is EASY to lose over the course of a year. I didn't have time or energy to cook so I pretty much picked up Taco Bell or Little Ceasar's Pizza or made a sub sandwich before I went into work, or microwaved something quick.

I lost 30 pounds in a year, which I thought was going to be impossible. I barely did it because the middle of the year was kinda a waste. I then set my goals on 50 pounds the next year, and I barely hit it, but wouldn't have if my job which did not allow for breaks and lunches (gas station) hadn't transitioned me into intermittent fasting.

When I eat a bunch of carbs my body gets inflamed because of a lot of reasons and my knee starts acting up and my ingrown toenail gets massively inflamed and is unbearable. I keep my carbohydrates low, and I'm able to go to the gym. Before Keto I was wearing a knee brace. I did an experiment where I got off keto for 3 days, and god 2 of those days were miserable.

You can lose weight without caring that much about what you put into your body, 30-50 pounds is the easy part.

I've lost 120 pounds but even if Keto slowed my weightloss, I wouldn't care, because I have more energy, I feel better, I'm less depressed, less suicidal, my muscles are less sore. The 1 day I worked after 3 days of cheating I could barely walk. The next day after I had fasted for 16 hours, I felt great again, and was running around getting stuff done again rather than apologizing to my coworker because everything is sore.

Just in the last year I've lost 80 pounds where before my weight loss goals were 30 one year, and 50 another. I've hit a wall and I'm going to the gym now, and playing around with macros and fasting to break that wall... Deficits absolutely 100% are not enough to lose nearly 200 pounds most of the time. You might get lucky and be able to do it, our bodies are complicated, don't dumb health down to restricting calories alone. I am confident that my keto diet is making my heart so much healthier, there's evidence that eating a low carb diet can reverse atherosclerotic but the clinics will take a while to get enough data to publish as a study, and there's very few industries that are going to fund a weight loss plan that is basically "Avoid 90% of what's in the store and cook most of your food at home."

The money that most companies make on keto are sabotaging people doing keto. Where they throw in soluble corn fiber as a way to bump up the fiber so they can market lower net carbs... Blah. I'd rather people focus on getting healthy. The weight will follow. Tomorrow I start egg fasting. The real trick is losing this last 50-60 pounds without my 9 hour job where I get no breaks and lunches. Eh...

Makaiookami

TL:DR version. Everything you do your body will adapt to. If you can manage to drop massive amounts of weight like more than 100 pounds without doing a keto diet, and without slowing your metabolism so bad that you end up like a "Biggest Loser" and gaining it all back, then congratulations! You lucked out! Yes you can lose 30-50 maybe even 60 or 80 pounds eating pizza on the days you aren't eating Tacobell but that's not healthy, and it's far better to lose weight getting healthier, than losing weight while feeding your body garbage. Keeping your insulin spiked regularly is not healthy. Never has been, never will be. Your cells will get insulin resistant you will suffer consequences eventually.

Just never dealing with hypoglycemia, not having to wear a knee brace and having energy alone is worth keeping to a keto lifestyle. I love the new lifestyle. Carbs do not interest me, I no longer believe eating plants is as healthy as eating liver, even just a little bit mixed into a meatball or something and eating too much plant material makes my life a living hell.

psuLemon

Makaiookami wrote: »

TL:DR version. Everything you do your body will adapt to. If you can manage to drop massive amounts of weight like more than 100 pounds without doing a keto diet, and without slowing your metabolism so bad that you end up like a "Biggest Loser" and gaining it all back, then congratulations! You lucked out! Yes you can lose 30-50 maybe even 60 or 80 pounds eating pizza on the days you aren't eating Tacobell but that's not healthy, and it's far better to lose weight getting healthier, than losing weight while feeding your body garbage. Keeping your insulin spiked regularly is not healthy. Never has been, never will be. Your cells will get insulin resistant you will suffer consequences eventually.

Just never dealing with hypoglycemia, not having to wear a knee brace and having energy alone is worth keeping to a keto lifestyle. I love the new lifestyle. Carbs do not interest me, I no longer believe eating plants is as healthy as eating liver, even just a little bit mixed into a meatball or something and eating too much plant material makes my life a living hell.

Just because you aren't keto, doesn't mean you live off of junk food. This is the non sense that also gives keto a bad name. And just because someone is keto doesn't mean it's done in a healthy manor (i.e., tons of processed fats). I lost weight by consuming lean proteins, seafood, fruits, veggies, oats, and whole grains. And I did it without starving myself, like done of the biggest loser (which btw, is not a good comparison since no one else is dieting like that). My triglycerides went from 220 to 40, my A1C is now 4.9, and no inflammation. And when I did that, I was 50% carbs, 30% protein and 20% fats. Now, I am running keto as an experiment to see if it changes anything else.

When I lost weight, did I incorporate treats? Yes. But i kept them to about 5-15% of my diet, and they helped me keep complaint. And even incorporating them, I lost 50 lbs and kept it off for 8 years. The most important thing for weight loss is compliance/adherence. You can be fit as a vegan consuming 70-80% carbs or even someone in ketosis at 5-10% carbs. The fact is, humans are extremely adaptable and can THRIVE in so many types of environments. And for a person like you, going ketogenic is key. But for many others, it's not. Not all of us have insulin resistance or diabetes, even if they are obese.

So arguing that your diet is better for all, because it has helped you, is short sighted. Every diet has been shown to be effective. And there is very little difference between any diet. What is important, as stated above, is being able to adhere to that diet. And even more so, losing weight and exercise will provide 90% or more of the benefits.